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Waterford City Council decision to refuse permission for outlet centre upheld

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  • 17-01-2014 9:52pm
    #1
    Frigga_92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭


    Couldn't see a thread about this here so said I'd post this up.

    http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/199217-waterford-city-council-decision-to-refuse-permission-for-outlet-centre-upheld-wlrfmnews.html

    I think it's an awful pity that planning permission was refused on the basis that the development would "undermine the City Centre as the primary retail centre and would be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area."
    What the City Council are doing and have been doing for some time now, with regard to trying to keep any and every bit of business in the city centre, isn't working so why not try a different approach?
    I have to say, if there are good enough places to shop in the City Centre, people will go there regardless of what else is on offer elsewhere, as it stands, the City Centre has a pretty poor offering for shoppers.

    The proposed centre was supposed to have been similar to Kildare Village and anytime I've been to Kildare Village the place has been very busy and it's not exactly close to a large town.
    I think there might always be that worry that any new development will turn into another disaster like Ferrybank but I think the old WC site would've been the right place for something like this.


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    #2
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,518 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    Some sense at last from the planning authorities imo


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    #3
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Good, 100% correct decision. There was though a stratospheric level of hypocrisy in Kilkenny County Council objecting to it.


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    #4
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    Yes great decision here, stop them putting up a centre, within walking distance of centre, that would have provided jobs in construction and jobs afterwards. lets face it waterford already has too many jobs and enough money from business paying rates we dont need anymore.


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    #5
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    robtri wrote: »
    Yes great decision here, stop them putting up a centre, within walking distance of centre, that would have provided jobs in construction and jobs afterwards. lets face it waterford already has too many jobs and enough money from business paying rates we dont need anymore.

    Walking distance? People complain about parking down by the cinema. This place would be a million miles away in their head


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    #6
    Nypd
    Registered Users Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Nypd


    BBM77 wrote: »
    Good, 100% correct decision. There was though a stratospheric level of hypocrisy in Kilkenny County Council objecting to it.

    WTF !!
    What were their objections ??


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    #7
    sawdoubters
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭sawdoubters


    seems too big


    next it goes to Judical Review


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    #8
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    Good decision. Put them in the centre or dont put them anywhere at all.


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    #9
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    proper order and good decision. don't want that thing out on cork road. the least we can do is learn from others mistakes like they done in limerick with crescent.


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    #10
    Smiley Burnett
    Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Smiley Burnett


    http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/wctu-objects-to-latest-city-centre-plans-from-krm/

    Ironic, that when plans were put forward to provide jobs in the centre of the city, it was the trade unions that objected!!


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    #11
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    Smiley Burnett wrote: »
    http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/wctu-objects-to-latest-city-centre-plans-from-krm/

    Ironic, that when plans were put forward to provide jobs in the centre of the city, it was the trade unions that objected!!

    Led by a certain sitting councilor who is now in trouble over his expenses.
    We really get what we deserve when we elect imbeciles like this.


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    #12
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    This was a non runner from day one, and anyone with a brain could have looked back at WCC 'S history should have known that it was a non runner.


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    #13
    cronkfield
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭cronkfield


    Not sure what the point was with regard to the Cresent in Limerick. From my experience its one of best shopping center's in the country and Waterford could badly do with something similar.


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    #14
    ToxicPaddy
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    I have mixed feelings about this.

    A development like this would bring much needed income and jobs to the area, from initial construction to store positions when up and running.
    Kildare Outlet does great business and it just wouldnt work in a city centre with the setup of it.

    I have also been to similar outlet centres in the US and on mainland Europe. When done right they are a gold mine with a constant footfall and usually end up expanding as they attract new stores to the centre.

    I can understand the objections due to drawing footfall from the city centre, however if this created as many new jobs as promised for local area it would bring in more money thus more spending in all stores by locals employed there.

    Does anyone know if its the same company thats behind the one in Kildare??


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    #15
    kayaksurfbum
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭kayaksurfbum


    There are two shopping centers in Ferrybank empty. Old BnQ empty and the six cross roads shopping centre nearly empty, and they want to build another one that might end up empty in a few years!

    Kildare village is not making any money apparently and rathdowney closed down after making a loss for the last few years.

    Good decision not to allow it I think.

    Let them set up in some empty units to see if there is a demand.


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    #16
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    cronkfield wrote: »
    Not sure what the point was with regard to the Cresent in Limerick. From my experience its one of best shopping center's in the country and Waterford could badly do with something similar.

    The point is that while the Crescent (and equally the Parkway) is a success in and of itself, it has undermined Limerick city centre. Lots of major shops have a presence in the Crescent, and none in the city centre, where there are lots of units vacant. This could lead to the city centre declining like what happened to the downtown areas of so many mid-size American cities when the mega malls were built on the outskirts.

    Waterford City Council is expressly against this happening. This is why it will not allow certain types of retail outside of the city centre.


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    #17
    Frigga_92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Frigga_92


    fricatus wrote: »
    The point is that while the Crescent (and equally the Parkway) is a success in and of itself, it has undermined Limerick city centre. Lots of major shops have a presence in the Crescent, and none in the city centre, where there are lots of units vacant. This could lead to the city centre declining like what happened to the downtown areas of so many mid-size American cities when the mega malls were built on the outskirts.

    Waterford City Council is expressly against this happening. This is why it will not allow certain types of retail outside of the city centre.

    As it is, there are shops closing down in Waterford left right and centre, and certain types of retail just outside of the city centre can't be blamed for that at present so I just wonder if trying something different would be so bad?

    I don't know about anybody else but as a young woman I have almost given up shopping in Waterford because there is nothing left there, Monsoon and Awear are gone now too.


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    #18
    space2ground1
    Registered Users Posts: 503 ✭✭✭space2ground1


    I think the council need to put ten times the effort now to attract big name shops to the city centre as they have in stopping the outside development. Its not enough to block that and hope for the best that they'll choose the city as the alternative. That hasnt and won't happen unless we battle hard to build the centre up. I know there's a few incentives in place but we need to really ramp up the efforts now. Otherwise, it was pointless stopping the outside development.


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    #19
    Southern Belle
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭Southern Belle


    26sdrawkcab wrote: »
    As it is, there are shops closing down in Waterford left right and centre, and certain types of retail just outside of the city centre can't be blamed for that at present so I just wonder if trying something different would be so bad?

    I don't know about anybody else but as a young woman I have almost given up shopping in Waterford because there is nothing left there, Monsoon and Awear are gone now too.

    Is Wallis in City Square closing down too? Literally nothing left - go into town to shop on a Friday night and you'd be nearly afraid on the streets as the place is so deserted.


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    #20
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    fricatus wrote: »
    The point is that while the Crescent (and equally the Parkway) is a success in and of itself, it has undermined Limerick city centre. Lots of major shops have a presence in the Crescent, and none in the city centre, where there are lots of units vacant. This could lead to the city centre declining like what happened to the downtown areas of so many mid-size American cities when the mega malls were built on the outskirts.

    Waterford City Council is expressly against this happening. This is why it will not allow certain types of retail outside of the city centre.

    But lets be honest there is nothing left to undermine.....
    Waterford city centre is dreadfull, it has pennys and dunnes.... Thats really it for the big names....
    So have an outlet mall will not really impact city centre, consider how close it is too the city centre it can only help it.


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    #21
    Frigga_92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Frigga_92


    Southern Belle wrote: »
    Is Wallis in City Square closing down too? Literally nothing left - go into town to shop on a Friday night and you'd be nearly afraid on the streets as the place is so deserted.

    Yep, Wallis is closing now too. It's just so unfortunate, because like others, I do agree that Waterford is a compact place but there's just nothing in it anymore. A trip to Penneys, Shaws, Boots and Debenhams in City Square and you've just about covered the place in less than an hour.


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    #22
    Yes Boss
    Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭Yes Boss


    The correct decision was made by the City Council and reinforced by An Bord Pleanala. Whilst the range of shops in the City Centre is weak at the moment, allowing something like this on its doorstep would be the final nail.


    People who make the argument regarding jobs are the same people making the argument for the pylons. Limited!


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    #23
    Gavlor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    It's a bad call IMO. Would have attracted people down for brands that aren't really available in the main stores and it may have encouraged the likes of h&m, Zara etc to base in the city centre and benefit from the numbers at the retail outlet.

    Look at Kildare village and whitewater newbridge. Ten minutes apart and whitewater shopping centre still does thriving business, as does the newbridge main st.

    It's a numbers game folks and at the moment there is nothing to attract numbers to waterford.


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    #24
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    I think its the right decision, the location is just wrong it would have to be within walking distance of the city centre.


    When Mahon opened in cork, the city centre was very weak and mahon cleaned up even though the selection of shops were weak.

    But then opera lane developed and made the city centre strong again. There is no reason why a section like that couldn't be opened in Waterford, should be less hassel for planning compared to a shopping centre.

    the county council would be better off identifying areas like that to promote retail.


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    #25
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    wmpdd3 wrote: »
    I think its the right decision, the location is just wrong it would have to be within walking distance of the city centre.


    When Mahon opened in cork, the city centre was very weak and mahon cleaned up even though the selection of shops were weak.

    But then opera lane developed and made the city centre strong again. There is no reason why a section like that couldn't be opened in Waterford, should be less hassel for planning compared to a shopping centre.

    the county council would be better off identifying areas like that to promote retail.

    The City Council are well into negotiations with NAMA and the developers of the Brewery centre with a few to building a smaller version of what was originally planned , from what I gather between them it will come to the market with full planning and funding from NAMA .


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    #26
    Smiley Burnett
    Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Smiley Burnett


    the elephant in the room regarding retail is increase in online shopping...the reality is people are buying their clothes/books online and this is having a devastating effect on high-street retailers...In fact lots of retailers feel that shoppers are using their premises to try on clothes etc, and then go home and purchase the product online!! issues such as parking charges and commercial rates are constantly highlighted as issues to be dealt with, but it's not that simple to counteract the threat from online shopping....TALK TO ANY COURIER IF YOU THINK I'M OVER-ESTIMATING THE EFFECT OF ONLINE SHOPPING!!


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