Fishing Club Waters

bones13

Am I allowed to fish club waters from a boat?
Or do the club members own rights to the stretch of river?
Or is it just the land they own?

fiacha

No.
Yes.
No. But you still need the landowners permission to access the water from their land etc.

bones13

Is that in black and white somewhere? Not being smart
Is it on the Inland fisheries site? If so I cant find it. Which leads me to think I can fish from a boat on club waters.

dazza161989

It is a shady area and has been for quite a few years now, but to be quite honest your best advised to avoid attempting it as:

•It is quite poor etiquette and is frowned upon.

•And also you would most probably recieve quite a backlash from angry club members who diligently pay their annual fees.

Just my opinion.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The clubs have the fishing rights to the stretch of water. Pure and simple. You can walk all the banksides you like as long as you have landowner permission and are not fishing. Likewise you travel the river by boat once you are not fishing. Fishing rights quite clearly state they are the rights to fish from A to B.

bones13

Its just a small stretch of the river, less than a mile, but has all the best runs and glides.
Plus ill be pike fishing, and I personally feel I shouldn't have to pay club fees for pike fishing, I fully understand trout and salmon laws and fully abide by them. As I would love to see or rivers restored to what they used to be in regards to fish numbers and size.


Tnx for the answers posted.

bones13

Ameer Hollow Bathrobe wrote: »

The clubs have the fishing rights to the stretch of water. Pure and simple. You can walk all the banksides you like as long as you have landowner permission and are not fishing. Likewise you travel the river by boat once you are not fishing. Fishing rights quite clearly state they are the rights to fish from A to B.

I take it your a club member? Have you this in black and white on the fisheries site i could look at? I wont break the laws if I cant fish, but if its not an angling law i'll be fishing.

Are you in support of the new rod licenses?
Do you think I should have to pay fees for pike fishing?

The governing body screws us all some way.

SeaFields

bones13 wrote: »

Are you in support of the new rod licenses?
Do you think I should have to pay fees for pike fishing?

MOD These are unrelated to the questions posed in the OP. Please post here regarding rod licence and here about additional regulations. Last post deleted in line with this mod note. Thanks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

OK, shortened version. The legal papers are held by the club's solicitors. They would not be online. Do not confuse licences with club membership entitling you to fish certain waters. I pike fish but do so on waters not belonging to clubs.

breghall

If a club has the fishing rights to stretch then you can't fish that water without being a member of that club. Landowners such as farmers may own the river bed as it's part of their land, but yet may not own the fishing rights to the water above it. I had to look into this myself and it is just mind boggling at times. Bottom line .. if it's club water then you have to be in club to fish that actual stretch of water or at least get permission from them.
Try find out where the club water ends and see if you can get permission to fish the water from the riparian owner.

Finding out who has the fishing rights to waters isn't posted on websites, you just have to get out and do some good old detective work, ask around and stuff. IMO most fishermen are only too happy to point out who to talk to, when looking for info on rights.

o

Bizzum

bones13 wrote: »

ill be pike fishing, and I personally feel I shouldn't have to pay club fees for pike fishing, I fully understand trout and salmon laws and fully abide by them.

The club generally control the fishing rights. Many clubs have very low membership charges, and I know of some Trout/Salmon clubs that have made an arrangemen with the local Pike angler to fish (for Pike only ) at a reduced rate. This could be worth exploring.
If you're a club member you're entitled to be there and you're insured.

bones13

breghall wrote: »

If a club has the fishing rights to stretch then you can't fish that water without being a member of that club. Landowners such as farmers may own the river bed as it's part of their land, but yet may not own the fishing rights to the water above it. I had to look into this myself and it is just mind boggling at times. Bottom line .. if it's club water then you have to be in club to fish that actual stretch of water or at least get permission from them.
Try find out where the club water ends and see if you can get permission to fish the water from the riparian owner.

Finding out who has the fishing rights to waters isn't posted on websites, you just have to get out and do some good old detective work, ask around and stuff. IMO most fishermen are only too happy to point out who to talk to, when looking for info on rights.

o

Here is the information regarding fishing rights. I just cant find anything that says no fishing from a boat on club waters. I have read every other law and bit of info I can find. I was even in the Inland fisheries office, and they cant tell me for sure. Another thing the Inland fisheries cant tell me is, Am I allowed fish for pike on club waters in winter? Do clubs have rights even in the close season? They are supposed to be the go too people for info, and they dont have a clue.

So if I cant find legitimate info I'll be fishing club waters.

Here's the fishing rights I was told I cant find online.

The waters between Ballydonagh approximately and Whitesford are controlled by Clonmel and District Salmon and Trout Anglers Association.
A private fishery exists from Whitesford downstream for approximately 2.5kms on both banks. This stretch and other areas are controlled by Clonanav Fly Fishing Centre. Angling from Knocklofty Bridge up stream to Clonanav fishery is private.
Clonmel & District Salmon and Trout Anglers control waters from Knocklofty Bridge to Marlfield.
Waters from below Clonmel & District Salmon & Trout Anglers known as Marlfield down to Gasworks Bridge is privately owned.
Fishing is free between the bridges in Clonmel town.
Clonmel & District Anglers manage a small reach below Clonmel town to Sir Thomas’s Bridge.
Suir Valley Fisheries control the fishing on the left bank immediately below the confluence of the River Anner for approximately 3 kms. The fishery also operates a reach below Poulakerry for approximately 1.5km of the left bank. Clonmel & District Salmon & Trout Anglers manage a stretch of the left bank from below the old graveyard in Killsheelan to the Merc Sharp Factory.
The stretch from Duff Castle to Miloko on the left bank is under the auspices of Carrick-on-Suir Angling Club. Fishing is free from Miloko to within the town of Carrick-on-Suir on the left bank. Churchtown Syndicate have some fishing on the right bank.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

That's all just information to assist anglers. It's not the legal position. You cannot fish a clubs waters from a boat if you are not a club member. Saying you can't find that stated on the internet is absolutely no defence. You can find your legitimate I formation by simply contacting the clubs. You insistence that the information must online is quite naïve.

bones13

Ameer Hollow Bathrobe wrote: »

That's all just information to assist anglers. It's not the legal position. You cannot fish a clubs waters from a boat if you are not a club member. Saying you can't find that stated on the internet is absolutely no defence. You can find your legitimate I formation by simply contacting the clubs. You insistence that the information must online is quite naïve.

Should the Inland Fisheries Office be able to tell me?

fiacha

The fishing rights are nothing to do with the fisheries board.

As far as I remember, back in the day the rights to pursue game (be it the furry, feathery or scaley kind) could be purchased or leased by Lord X without him having to purchase the actual land. It then became unlawful for ANYONE to pursue that game without his permission.

Fishing / Hunting rights are still handled in the same way today. A landowner holds the rights, unless they have been previously purchased or leased by another party. Having the rights to hunt / fish does not give you permission to access the lands / water (my opinion).

All this has nothing to do with the State issued angling licenses. Nor does it only apply to game fish.


You can google your way around the issue all you want, but the simple fact is in order to legally fish that stretch, you need to be a member of the club.

If it was me, I would find out who is on the club committee and ask them what options I have for fishing their waters for Pike only etc.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

bones13 wrote: »

Should the Inland Fisheries Office be able to tell me?

I don't know what your inistance around IFI is all about. What is the problem in contacting the club?You may well find they are willing to allow you pike fish on their waters, perhaps even for free.

Bizzum

Ameer Hollow Bathrobe wrote: »

I don't know what your inistance around IFI is all about. What is the problem in contacting the club?You may well find they are willing to allow you pike fish on their waters, perhaps even for free.

Absolutely. As you're insistant on contacting Fisheries, it would certainly do no harm to talk to the local officer that covers the river you're interested in. It's likely he/she has a fair handle on the fishing rights, and at a minimum will be able to point you in the right direction as regard angling clubs.

To put one point to bed for you: If the fishing rights are held by a club, you can't fish them legally from bank, boat, helicopter, or any other way. They are simply fishings rights, you can boat down the river but not fish!

bones13

All these comments and still I cant find it any bye-law or other information.
You would think this would be stated somewhere as I suspect it's not the first time it's happened.

bones13

Bizzum wrote: »

Absolutely. As you're insistant on contacting Fisheries, it would certainly do no harm to talk to the local officer that covers the river you're interested in. It's likely he/she has a fair handle on the fishing rights, and at a minimum will be able to point you in the right direction as regard angling clubs.

To put one point to bed for you: If the fishing rights are held by a club, you can't fish them legally from bank, boat, helicopter, or any other way. They are simply fishings rights, you can boat down the river but not fish!

I have talked to the local officer, and he and few other's cant tell me where I stand, so that leads me to believe its not a bye-law, just frowned upon.

dvae

just because there's a club on the river doesn't necessarily mean that they own the rights to that river or stretch.
there are many clubs on fishery board waters. this dose not give them the right to stop anglers fishing, even during
a competition.
eg. in my area there is a club who fish the river suck in ballyforan. this is a fishery board river and anybody with a valid
permit can fish there, regardless if they are a member of the club or not.

fiacha

from http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/State-Fisheries/history-of-fishing-rights-in-ireland.html

History of fishing rights in Ireland
What is a fishing right?
Anywhere a fishery exists in freshwater there is a right to fish or a fishing right. This right is owned by someone, either a private individual or group such as an angling club or the State. The owner of the fishing rights can choose to make the fishing available for public use, either for the payment of a fee or free of charge of permit, this is sometimes referred to as ‘free fishing’ nonetheless it is still essentially ‘private property’.
What’s the story with fishing rights at sea?
There is a public right to fish in the sea with the exception of a number of areas that were privatised pre the Magna Carta (1215). The State can control the sea by regulation but it does not own it separate from its citizens. Any member of the public has the right to fish in the sea and tidal waters or estuaries, with the exception of certain private rights exclusive of the public rights existing in some tidal waters by virtue of ancient grants. In certain cases, where tidal fisheries were subject to court decisions, Special Tidal Waters Orders were made under Section 7 of the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act of 1959, enabling a licensing scheme for control of fishing in those waters.
Where do fishing rights come from?
The title to fisheries / fishing rights in Ireland derives from the confiscation of lands by the Crown under the Acts of Confiscation of the 17th century and the subsequent granting of estates by the Crown to its favoured subjects. The boundaries of these estates tend to correspond to townland boundaries and so the associated fishing rights are also mostly defined by townland boundaries. Townland boundaries and hence fishing rights generally extend to the half way mark of a river and to the centre point of a lake out from the adjoining land. However, for townlands adjoining a river below its tidal reaches (due to the public right on sea fisheries) the boundary is at the water’s edge rather than the centreline.
How can fishing rights change hands?
Fishing rights may be held by individuals or bodies in the same way as land may be held. In Ireland, there are no laws dictating that the ownership of fishing rights may not be severed from that of the bed and soil or the adjoining land, meaning that one person can own the bed and soil and another the fishing rights. Consequently, lands and fishing rights have changed hands sometimes together and sometimes separately. Quite often fishing rights are passed on from generation to generation in a family and consequently can be shared between multiple descendants spread across the globe. It is not uncommon for the owner of a fishing right be unaware that they even own the right. For this reason it can often be quite confusing to track down the current owner of a fishing right. However, that is not to say that the title to the fishery itself is confused.
What title research has been done on State fisheries in Ireland?
In the mid 1990’s, a significant amount of money was invested in Ireland’s angling infrastructure under the Tourism Angling Measure (T.A.M.), the aim of which was to improve the domestic and tourism angling product. One of the conditions of receiving aid under this measure was that title to a fishery had to be established. The Central Fisheries Board maintained a title research unit to provide this service. During this period a significant amount of work was done on establishing the title and ownership of a large number of fisheries including a number of State fisheries. The title research unit was disbanded in the late 1990’s at which point title research work had been completed on approximately 170 State fisheries. Many of these fisheries are now under licence to various angling clubs.
Does IFI have a list of all fishing rights in Ireland?
Inland Fisheries Ireland does not have a complete database of all fishing rights in Ireland. We only have information on those we ourselves own.
How can I find out who owns a particular fishing right?
If you are interested in researching a fishing right you could contract the services of a suitably experienced title researcher to carry this work out for you. Unfortunatley IFI no longer has the resources to carry out this work for private fishery owners.

The best place to start, however, would be to consult the Land Registry folio for the adjoining land as in some cases this may indicate the owner of the adjoining fishing rights. Please refer to www.landregistry.ie for further information.

iPhone.

Wow! Fishing has definitely got a lot more complicated since I was a lad by the look of it. Seems from what I've read in this thread if I hooked a fish on the edge of club waters and the fish then took a run into the adjoining 'club stretch' I would be breaking the law almost. Or would it have to be a wisdom of solomon thing and you offer to cut the fish in half and peg the club's half back over to their side.

Life used to be much slower and less complicated in those days.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

iPhone. wrote: »

Wow! Fishing has definitely got a lot more complicated since I was a lad by the look of it. Seems from what I've read in this thread if I hooked a fish on the edge of club waters and the fish then took a run into the adjoining 'club stretch' I would be breaking the law almost. Or would it have to be a wisdom of solomon thing and you offer to cut the fish in half and peg the club's half back over to their side.

Life used to be much slower and less complicated in those days.

Nothing has changed you know! It has always been thus. It's just that the young folk seem to think if something isn't on the Interweb then it isn't true.

breghall

dvae wrote: »

just because there's a club on the river doesn't necessarily mean that they own the rights to that river or stretch.
there are many clubs on fishery board waters. this dose not give them the right to stop anglers fishing, even during
a competition.
eg. in my area there is a club who fish the river suck in ballyforan. this is a fishery board river and anybody with a valid
permit can fish there, regardless if they are a member of the club or not.

I'm not too sure here, as I think clubs have to lease the waters from the fisheries board so therefore it is their water for the length of the lease.
Maybe someone from a club might step in here an clarify?

floattuber_lee

It seems you are hell bent on fishing it regardless of the advice been suggested to you here. Using ignorance is not an excuse I imagine will work too well (if the club prosecutes you 'the internet had no information' wont stand in court) dont be surprised if you are met by some very annoyed anglers. You know this is a club water regardless of what laws you can or cannot find the decent respectful thing to do is phone the club and ask for clarification. Your hesitancy to do this and constantly referring to 'i cant find bye laws' suggests deep down you know its not right and you're trying to find away around it.

dazza161989

floattuber_lee wrote: »

It seems you are hell bent on fishing it regardless of the advice been suggested to you here. Using ignorance is not an excuse I imagine will work too well (if the club prosecutes you 'the internet had no information' wont stand in court) dont be surprised if you are met by some very annoyed anglers. You know this is a club water regardless of what laws you can or cannot find the decent respectful thing to do is phone the club and ask for clarification. Your hesitancy to do this and constantly referring to 'i cant find bye laws' suggests deep down you know its not right and you're trying to find away around it.

i believe you have hit the nail on the head there!

SeaFields

floattuber_lee wrote: »

It seems you are hell bent on fishing it regardless of the advice been suggested to you here.

MOD And on that note, closed. No point in everyone reiterating a point that seems is going to be ignored in any case.