Stay in D with handbrake on in auto when stopped at lights

fletch

My neighbour is currently learning to drive and is learning in an automatic.

Her driving instructor has told her when she is stopped at lights she should put the handbrake on and leave it in D. (and not have her foot on the foot brake)

I have told her that this is wrong but the instructor is adamant he is right.

She is learning in a '02 Yaris. I took her out in my car (DSG but same theory as a conventional auto) and showed her that the car will try push against the handbrake and if the handbrake were to slip in traffic she could end up in the back of the car in front. Is there something to prevent this happening in a '02 Yaris? (I highly doubt but I'm open to correction)

_Kaiser_

Personally I use D with the footbrake, or if I was gonna be there a while, N with the handbrake

YbFocus

I reckon you're right, they always try advance when in drive. Bad move by the instructor.

fletch

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Personally I use D with the footbrake, or if I was gonna be there a while, N with the handbrake

Yeh that's exactly what I do.

Leaving it in D and only engaging the handbrake is putting wear/pressure on the handbrake and drivetrain surely

_Kaiser_

fletch wrote: »

Yeh that's exactly what I do.

Leaving it in D and only engaging the handbrake is putting wear/pressure on the handbrake and drivetrain surely

That's how I'd see it as well. Of course if actually parked up it goes into P but otherwise I just do the above

colm_mcm

sounds wrong to me anyway.

In case anyone is wondering. That car would be a regular torque converter gearbox

Clungewellies

Unless she's coming to a stop and then selecting neutral after hand brake, Id say foot brake. When driving automatic I leave in D and just keep my foot on the brake. I suppose it's better as it uses both front and rear brakes as opposed to the hand brake which is only rear (correct me if I'm wrong?)

mloc123

D and footbrake for me... but now I have 'auto hold' so I am using that.

fletch

mloc123 wrote: »

D and footbrake for me... but now I have 'auto hold' so I am using that.

I have Hill Hold Control on the DSG too but I can guarantee a '02 Yaris doesn't ha

Edit - Just read up about BMWs auto hold. Hill Hold Control on the VAG DSG automatically applies the brakes on an incline and releases them after 2 seconds or if I touch the accelerator before 2 seconds. With BMW auto hold you don't seem to even need to have your foot on the brake which I imagine is hard to get used to at first but very handy

talla

When I was driving the E60, if i was in the first three cars when stopped at lights, I used to leave the car in D and leave foot on the brake. Any further back and I'd stick it into neutral and put on the handbrake.
Now I just use autohold on the 730d.

colm_mcm

No harm reading this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056269844

Anan1

... or even the car's handbook, which will tell you to leave it in D unless stopped for an extended period.

jca

I think you'll fail the driving test for being stopped for any length of time and just using the footbrake. I occasionally drive an auto and use the handbrake and N, it "feels" kinder on the drive-train.

colm_mcm

Anan1 wrote: »

... or even the car's handbook, which will tell you to leave it in D unless stopped for an extended period.

I don't think the handbook would tell you to leave it in D with the handbrake on.

dougie-lampkin

Driving instructors don't like people stopped with the footbrake, in case you get a minor tip from behind, your foot slips, and you're pushed into a busy junction. In a manual car, they also recommend that the first car at the lights stays in gear with the clutch in, to ensure you're ready to move off when they go green. So that would mean in gear, clutch in, handbrake on. I'd assume this carries over to an auto also. Of course in real world driving, after passing the test, this isn't necessary, but an instructor's job is to get you to pass the test.

fletch wrote: »

Leaving it in D and only engaging the handbrake is putting wear/pressure on the handbrake and drivetrain surely

No more pressure than sitting in D with the foot brake down. If the handbrake can't stand the pressure of an auto creeping forward, it won't be very effective at holding the car on a mild hill.

Kid Nothing

When I was learning to drive my instructor always told me to put the handbrake on before taking the car out of gear or i'd fail the test. Fair enough I thought until I drove a manual Merc with a foot operated parking brake, situated beside the clutch! Work that one out tester!!!

GTE

Taking what the driving instructors/testers want out for a moment, the consensus I am reading here does not make sense.

The only constant between the two is that the car is in D so why should it matter what brakes are being used to keep the car stopped? Wear on the drivetrain (if any) would happen either way.

Additionally, as a poster has said, if the handbrake can not stop the creep of an auto car it then I would worry about the handbrake doing its job properly.

GTE

Kid Nothing wrote: »

When I was learning to drive my instructor always told me to put the handbrake on before taking the car out of gear or i'd fail the test. Fair enough I thought until I drove a manual Merc with a foot operated parking brake, situated beside the clutch! Work that one out tester!!!

EDIT:
Sorry, I totally misread your post. I thought you meant that special brake that is operated by double tapping the foot brake. But here is the post anyway.

Doesn't that switch off with the flick of either the brake or accelerator pedal? A wet foot and slippery pedal would be your answer there if I remembered that correctly.

visual

Every auto I've driven D & N are designed to be easily changed without pressing gear selector release button.

If stopped at traffic lights handbrake on and in N

We all take short cuts and cheat a little and dont bother as we are only stopped for very short time with foot on breaks and auto still in drive.

But if you think about a front wheel drive auto on ice. Front wheels with power attemping to drive forward, rear wheels with handbrake applied trying to hold the car in place. Its a conflict of interest and there is no guarantee the rear wheels will always win the argument.

dougie-lampkin

visual wrote: »

But if you think about a front wheel drive auto on ice. Front wheels with power attemping to drive forward, rear wheels with handbrake applied trying to hold the car in place. Its a conflict of interest and there is no guarantee the rear wheels will always win the argument.

The torque the engine is producing while creeping forward is minimal compared to the braking torque at the rear. Especially in the 1.0 Yaris in the OP's case. A good handbrake has a couple of thousand newtons force, a FWD hatch is producing a few hundred newtons of force at idle in first. There's no comparison. Maybe if the rear wheels were on sheet ice and the front wheels on tarmac, it might overcome the friction of the ice, but with front and rear on tarmac there's no chance.

You could say the same for a powerful auto RWD car. With your foot resting on the brake, the vast majority of braking is done by the front, often twice the force. What's to stop the rear wheels from spinning up?

There's nothing to cause the handbrake to "slip", realistically there's far more risk of your foot slipping off the brake. I'm sure there's more than a couple of fender benders every year where this happens.

visual

I drive a large engine diesel jeep and left it D with handbrake off there is enough torgue to push the car in front up a hill.

when I stop and apply handbrake then change from D to N I can feel the jeep settling on its springs differently.

Ive driven some other autos like a micra 1.0 that it didn't seem to make much if any difference but how you should drive autos applies no matter what size engine.

I be confident standing in front of the micra that I could hold it from driving off if it was ticking over in D but there not a hope in hell I could physically hold the jeep in place if ticking over in D

But your taking about stopping and using foot brake to hold the car in D. That is just lazy and I admit I do this sometimes.

What I'm referring to is when stopped you should select N and not be lazy by leaving it in D
So I believe the instructor was wrong in saying car should be stopped in D with handbrake on

sawdoubters

I would use the foot brake and not a handbrake

if you use the handbrake your brake lights are not showing

and some one could crash into you in the back


it looks like a fail in driving test in England if you don't use your handbrake,but I would check some more in irish driving rule book

Chris_Heilong

I asked 2 testers I know this question 2 years ago and both told me to leave the car in D with the foot break pressed.

enfant terrible

colm_mcm wrote: »

sounds wrong to me anyway.

In case anyone is wondering. That car would be a regular torque converter gearbox

If the car was rear-ended while in drive instead of neutral could it damage the gearbox?

jca

This thread is becoming ridiculous, as always.

Anan1

enfant terrible wrote: »

If the car was rear-ended while in drive instead of neutral could it damage the gearbox?

I'd assume the TC would protect the transmission from any shock.

keithclancy

I thought the point of the Handbrake in a manual was to stop you rolling back or to park the car.

In an Automatic this unnecessary as the autobox will take care of that once you take your foot off the brake pedal.

If anything using the handbrake would make the process more complicated with little to no benefit for doing it that way.