No JP McManus pro am next year

big_drive · 16-01-2014 3:53pm #1

Seems that JP is not going ahead with his pro am next year. Shame as the last event was super i thought.

frost53 · 17-01-2014 12:00pm

If he paid his taxes like the rest of us, he wouldn't have to keep running out of the country like a fugitive. His passport should be cancelled permanently.

SnowDrifts · 17-01-2014 12:30pm

I know he has done immense charity work via this event but it seems very wrong for him to almost try and blackmail the Government into changing the tax system by suggesting he will cancel the event if it isn't changed.

Article about it here http://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2014/1/17/jp-mcmanus-to-call-time-on-charity-pro-am?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IrishGolfDesk+%28Irish+Golf+Desk%29

14handicap · 17-01-2014 12:40pm

I cant understand how he not living in the Country would stop this event going ahead...!!!
Can it not be organised by an organiser and JP turns up for the few days around the event?

I really cannot think of one reason why it should not go ahead...

TerryOC · 17-01-2014 3:46pm

Fully agree with the comments re JP McManus - if he wants to hold the event nobody is stopping him doing so. It is he himself who has decided to live outside the country for tax purposes. He is a great supporter of Irish charities / sports etc but there is no point in anyone bemoaning the fact that he is restricted in the number of days in which he can reside in Ireland.

plumber77 · 17-01-2014 7:32pm

Hope this goes ahead. It's a great celebration of all that's good about Ireland. High earning tax dodgers and golf bandits picking up .1's for the last 2 years in order to get to play with the pros. How else are the charities going to pay the directors pensions.

John Divney · 17-01-2014 7:36pm

plumber77 wrote: »

Hope this goes ahead. It's a great celebration of all that's good about Ireland. High earning tax dodgers and golf bandits picking up .1's for the last 2 years in order to get to play with the pros. How else are the charities going to pay the directors pensions.

Ders more ta Ireland dan dis!

plumber77 · 17-01-2014 8:04pm

John Divney wrote: »

Ders more ta Ireland dan dis!

For sure.

PARlance · 17-01-2014 9:16pm

plumber77 wrote: »

Hope this goes ahead. It's a great celebration of all that's good about Ireland. High earning tax dodgers and golf bandits picking up .1's for the last 2 years in order to get to play with the pros. How else are the charities going to pay the directors pensions.

If it wasn't for high earning tax dodgers this country would be in bits.

They go by the name of Google, Facebook, eBay etc etc

plumber77 · 17-01-2014 9:22pm

PARlance wrote: »

If it wasn't for high earning tax dodgers this country would be in bits.

They go by the name of Google, Facebook, eBay etc etc

Debatable I reckon, but they do add value I suppose. What about the bandits? You could argue that this competition promotes adding the extra few shots on the handicap, as much as the classics with holidays as first prizes. Then again this is hard to avoid, it's a cultural thing.

PARlance · 17-01-2014 10:12pm

plumber77 wrote: »

Debatable I reckon, but they do add value I suppose. What about the bandits? You could argue that this competition promotes adding the extra few shots on the handicap, as much as the classics with holidays as first prizes. Then again this is hard to avoid, it's a cultural thing.

I suppose anything is debatable.
I think it'd be a quick debate though:
€4billion each year from multinational corp tax
That's 11.5% of all tax taken in by Gov.
167,000 employed:
~€4billion in PAYE/PRSI(+er)
167,000 unemployed if they weren't here
~€1.7billion in dole payments.

That's €9.7 billion worth to the economy each year alone without even including spin off jobs created, take home pay of employees fueling economy etc

The guys that give out about O'Brien et al avoiding tax are the same guys that will bemoan the governments waste of money.
These businessmen have contributed massively to Ireland.
Would it be nice if they paid their taxes here, yes.
Would it be smart, no.
They tend to be fairly smart yet still are "nice" enough to contribute to pay for football managers or assist charities greatly.

Anyway, back to golf;
Bandits will exist without this comp and I don't think it's obligatory to be one to enter.

plumber77 · 17-01-2014 10:51pm

PARlance wrote: »

I suppose anything is debatable.
I think it'd be a quick debate though:
€4billion each year from multinational corp tax
That's 11.5% of all tax taken in by Gov.
167,000 employed:
~€4billion in PAYE/PRSI(+er)
167,000 unemployed if they weren't here
~€1.7billion in dole payments.

That's €9.7 billion worth to the economy each year alone without even including spin off jobs created, take home pay of employees fueling economy etc

The guys that give out about O'Brien et al avoiding tax are the same guys that will bemoan the governments waste of money.
These businessmen have contributed massively to Ireland.
Would it be nice if they paid their taxes here, yes.
Would it be smart, no.
They tend to be fairly smart yet still are "nice" enough to contribute to pay for football managers or assist charities greatly.

Anyway, back to golf;
Bandits will exist without this comp and I don't think it's obligatory to be one to enter.

Brings the Monty Python sketch " what have the Romans ever done for us"
Listen economical benefits are impossible to argue against in this case. But I do believe that the cultural influences associated with that bracket of people has not always been as positive. But like you said it's all about the golf. I've been to this event on the past 2 occasions so I hardly have the moral high ground. I was just having a rant

not obligatory to be a bandit, but not harmful to ones chances either.

superhooper · 17-01-2014 11:12pm

PARlance wrote: »

These businessmen have contributed massively to Ireland.
Would it be nice if they paid their taxes here, yes.
Would it be smart, no.
They tend to be fairly smart yet still are "nice" enough to contribute to pay for football managers or assist charities greatly.

.

I'd have no problem with companies paying low taxes but when the money is taken out of the company via salaries, dividends etc then its time to pony up...

Anyone ever play in one of these?

FixdePitchmark · 18-01-2014 12:10am

Dont want your condescending charity . Your taxes please.

Go away otherwise.

14handicap · 18-01-2014 8:24am

Guys you have totally gone away from this topic about the JP McManus Pro-am going ahead or not. He raised over €90,000,000 for charity through this event alone so I cant see how anyone can knock him.

Benny Cake · 18-01-2014 9:36am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Dont want your condescending charity . Your taxes please.

Go away otherwise.

As a limerick man I'm probably slightly biased in this regard but I can promise you that JP does more for local charities/clubs than 99% of irish citizens. I would much rather JP dispense his wealth as he sees fit rather than empty it in to the government coffers for simpletons like Enda Kenny to squander.

He is a generous and modest man who rarely looks for any publicity when making donations. There was a respite centre under construction in out parish for which funds ran short and put the build in jeopardy. JP donated 100k and a minibus.

neckedit · 18-01-2014 11:25am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Dont want your condescending charity . Your taxes please.

Go away otherwise.

Normally big fan of your post Fix,
I'd say the 000's of people he has indirectly helped are exceptionally happy with his charity.

Been to the event a couple of times, enjoyed it hugely and saw some great golf close up. it will be missed from the golfing Social scene for a few differing reasons.

SnowDrifts · 18-01-2014 11:37am

I really don't think the issue here is that of JP's philanthropy, that is not even up for debate. The issue, in my opinion, is that he seems to be using the event as some sort of bargaining chip to encourage the State to change their tax laws. If he wishes to reside outside the country in order to pay less tax, that is his prerogative but don't threaten to cancel the event because the Government wish to tighten up the regulations.

183 days is plenty of time and if needs be, employ someone to organise and liaise with him whilst he is outside the country.

Benny Cake · 18-01-2014 12:10pm

SnowDrifts wrote: »

I really don't think the issue here is that of JP's philanthropy, that is not even up for debate..

I agree it shouldn't be, but it most certainly is part of the debate here....

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Dont want your condescending charity . Your taxes please.

Go away otherwise.

tipptom · 18-01-2014 12:21pm

PARlance wrote: »

I suppose anything is debatable.
I think it'd be a quick debate though:
€4billion each year from multinational corp tax
That's 11.5% of all tax taken in by Gov.
167,000 employed:
~€4billion in PAYE/PRSI(+er)
167,000 unemployed if they weren't here
~€1.7billion in dole payments.

That's €9.7 billion worth to the economy each year alone without even including spin off jobs created, take home pay of employees fueling economy etc

The guys that give out about O'Brien et al avoiding tax are the same guys that will bemoan the governments waste of money.
These businessmen have contributed massively to Ireland.
Would it be nice if they paid their taxes here, yes.
Would it be smart, no.
They tend to be fairly smart yet still are "nice" enough to contribute to pay for football managers or assist charities greatly.

Anyway, back to golf;
Bandits will exist without this comp and I don't think it's obligatory to be one to enter.

Have great admiration for JP and DOB but something grates about DOB tendering in the loosest sense of the word for a massive public company for a song and flipping for a massive profit and fecking of to Portugal straight away with it without saying heres a few quid boys,JP earns most of his money outside so I think he is entitled to it and he probably donates more here than they would get taxes of him.

FixdePitchmark · 19-01-2014 9:37am

We are allowed to have different opinions on things - maybe it is a case that politics and sports shouldn't mix. But, it is nice to see different viewpoints. Taxation and Charity - A very apt subject.

Just because you are from Limerick or played at the event , come on lads - I love a jolly myself

, but you can't leave you brain at home , when you get back home.

But - Low taxation and tax exiles is an emotive issue. This is particularly the case in Ireland - since the economic downturn, people have examined all aspects of politics, corporate governance, taxation, public sector spending. The topic of Tax Exiles has come under increased scrutiny - all forms of tax exemptions have been examined.
Some of these were totally unnecessary and were ways of reducing tax exposure and linked to individuals political ideologies (McCreevy) and supporters of that party . We have had extraordinary revelations - of employees in companies having larger tax exposure than the company itself - we have had the financial crisis - The double Irish -The NAMA debacle - The IMF in town.

It is not just the Irish Public who have examined the Irish Taxation system - it has come under increased scrutiny in Europe and US. Ultimately , Ireland has been a Tax haven - there is no real debate about that. IFSC was primarily a shadow bank.

With all of that as a backdrop - PAYE workers are paying USC - Property Tax - Water Charges imminent - reduced services and basically just getting by. They can't reduce their tax exposure in any way.

Of course, as you get older you shift right - you see it is not black and white - Some High Net Worth individuals, will do whatever it takes to make more money , to establish power and political influence - for all of that, they create wealth and employment - it is a difficult balance to strike. Some of these people try strike that balance by giving back in other ways. That moral equilibrium, that they try to strike - may not meet what the public perceive as fair.

I think it is very poor judgement - for anybody , at this time, to question rules relating to Tax Exemptions. It is particularly crass for it to be raised in the context of a charity event.

So - I'm sure JP is a great lad - looks after people and that. Good laugh , a great lad, sure he built the hall.

But, sorry we are looking at a bigger picture. Not everybody takes a plane at midnight to save a few quid.

http://www.dailyedge.ie/6-super-rich-people-who-say-tax-me-more-436415-May2012/

No more politics lads - golf please.

charlieIRL · 19-01-2014 8:26pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No more politics lads - golf please.

Agreed

mickmackey1 · 19-01-2014 8:53pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No more politics lads - golf please.

So you give us a massive lecture about politics at 9.30 and then an hour later you edit saying 'no more politics'... did JP's goons track you down? :pac:

thebigbandit · 19-01-2014 10:08pm

god damm it i was really looking forward to playing in this again,,,,maybe its a bluff on jp`s part to get his exile status relaxed

Slicemeister · 19-01-2014 10:20pm

All those amateurs should be made wear skirts. Leave it to the pros and stay at the bar.

onlyfinewine · 26-01-2014 4:10am

thebigbandit wrote: »

god damm it i was really looking forward to playing in this again,,,,maybe its a bluff on jp`s part to get his exile status relaxed

The following extract from a facebook page shows a different take on the same event!

think it's very sad to see that the JP pro-am is not going ahead next year! I'm sure that the tax laws isn't the real reason as to why it's not going ahead!! I'm positive that JP is sick to death of showing off how Irish people will cheat to qualify! Only 10 percent if not less of the qualifying teams are not cheaters!!
Like · · Share · 24 January at 14:18 near Limerick · Edited ·
20 people like this.

John Collins Well said dude,it was a great event but it was ruined by the people who played in it!
24 January at 14:34 · Like · 1

Ryan McCann It was a tournament that was perfectly tailored for them was spotted in 2000 grow in 2005 and reached ridiculous stage in 2010 but what did GUI or organisers / clubs or anyone do about nothing. Good riddance to it
24 January at 14:40 · Like

Bart O Brien Ah it did a lot off good for the locality, but typical irish mentality abuse it until it's gone!!
24 January at 14:42 · Like · 1

Andrew Kiely He doesn't need a reason after all the good work he has done , the one man you wouldn't mind if he didn't pay tax!
24 January at 14:45 · Like · 2

Bart O Brien He pays it in other ways!!
24 January at 14:46 · Like · 1

Pompey Paddy Well said Bart.
24 January at 15:12 · Like · 1

Maeve Mc Namara Ya he's practically kept Milford open single handly and does a lot for the hospital as well.
24 January at 18:31 · Like · 1

John Whelan Sad to say you have a valid point about h caps, though pecentage may be a bit high. Some disappointed " h.cap builders " about .Cheers Bart.
24 January at 19:18 · Like · 1

Paddy Lane Well said Bart fair play to you
24 January at 20:13 · Like · 1

Shane Sheehy Sad to see it go but a kick in the arse for the point one bastards I hope they never win anything again.
They should be made play off scratch .
10 hours ago · Like

FixdePitchmark · 07-02-2014 2:19am

Amazing to see jp playing away in AT&T , no issue at all.

I guess it counts as him being away from home - handy that.

As a Padraig fan , not happy to see him hang around with these tax exiles - Padraig is in a league above this.

SEORG · 07-02-2014 9:34am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Amazing to see jp playing away in AT&T , no issue at all.

I guess it counts as him being away from home - handy that.

As a Padraig fan , not happy to see him hang around with these tax exiles - Padraig is in a league above this.

Not like it's a recent thing, Padraig has been hanging around with these 'tax exiles' for many years now both in Ireland, Peeble Beach & at the Alfred Dunhill in Scotland

indabunka · 07-02-2014 10:00am

Harrington & McManus at -8, Cabrera Bello & Desmond at -5 after the 1st round of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am.

Impressive performances from the 12 & 13 handicappers considering their pros only made 4 birdies between them.

just saying!

onlyfinewine · 08-02-2014 1:21pm

Would this be the no politics you posted about not discussing any more? Make your mind up please!;)

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Amazing to see jp playing away in AT&T , no issue at all.

I guess it counts as him being away from home - handy that.

As a Padraig fan , not happy to see him hang around with these tax exiles - Padraig is in a league above this.

Benny Cake · 08-02-2014 6:27pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Amazing to see jp playing away in AT&T , no issue at all.

I guess it counts as him being away from home - handy that.

As a Padraig fan , not happy to see him hang around with these tax exiles - Padraig is in a league above this.

You certainly spend allot of time talking tripe on here, no more politics talk my hole...

poteen · 10-02-2014 11:00am

SEORG wrote: »

Not like it's a recent thing, Padraig has been hanging around with these 'tax exiles' for many years now both in Ireland, Peeble Beach & at the Alfred Dunhill in Scotland

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Amazing to see jp playing away in AT&T , no issue at all.

I guess it counts as him being away from home - handy that.

As a Padraig fan , not happy to see him hang around with these tax exiles - Padraig is in a league above this.

I dont this forum is any place for political or economic opinion.

No JP McManus pro am next year

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