UK Government Plans to Charge Police Force Applicants £1,000

Sierra Oscar

This is something that was raised in the UK parliament today, and is likely to become a bit of a talking point over the next few days.

Basically the UK government is planning to bring in a requirement that will see anyone wanting to apply to the police force having to undergo a pre-application education course. The applicant will have to pay £1,000 to sit the course, and you cannot even apply to join the force without having sat the course.

There are some UK politicians voicing some serious concern about this - saying that it closes off the police force to those who are less well off and cannot afford such a course.

Any way, what do people think? Good, bad idea? It is certainly a step that I hope our government will not follow.

Scouser

withdrawal of comment on volunteers


paying to do a course where your not guaranteed a job - just like any college course really!

Sierra Oscar

Scouser wrote: »

I think certain sections of the Australian emergency services do something similar

Im all for it (the recruitment from volunteer/reserve forces - not the tax)

Garda should recruit directly from its reserve

PDF from RDF

Ambulance and Fire from CD and the many other excellent volunteer orgs


its the way forward as it seperates those who want the job from those who want a job

Apologies, don't want to make this a thread about the reserves so I removed that section of the OP that commented on volunteers to keep things on topic. Keep in mind that there are plenty of people who cannot be a member of the reserves due to the work that they do, and I don't think anyone expects a person to give up their livelihood to be a member of the reserve.

Anyway, back to the topic - I really don't like the idea of people having to fork out big sums of money just to be allowed even apply to a police force. The intention is good (i.e. to make sure you have the best possible applicants) but I don't think it has been thought through enough. It is like the days long long ago when you had to pay to achieve a commissioned rank in the army.

A load of crap really. You shouldn't have to pay to get yourself eligible to apply for a job other than basic education/3rd level where appropriate.

As for having to be a reserve first, stupid idea.

Scouser

to go back to the OP

is it really so awful to expect a higher standard for the police?

if i want to do certain jobs, i must acquire a certain education/skill set to do so

Police training has always been provided - but is a form of 'pre learning' such a bad thing?

bravestar

Nothing but a money making scam. Real police work is only learned by doing real police work. Ask any police officer/Garda where they learned the most... Sure, some preparatory training is needed in legal/procedure/physical, but there is no need for payed courses.

Scouser

Scouser wrote: »

to go back to the OP

is it really so awful to expect a higher standard for the police?

if i want to do certain jobs, i must acquire a certain education/skill set to do so

Police training has always been provided - but is a form of 'pre learning' such a bad thing?

So the current lot are a bunch of dumb chimps? Seriously? This is just a way to make money from people with an interest in the job. They know people will do anything to do the job they love and are exploiting it. The starting pay of new recruits has also been cut over there like here. You can actually get an outsourced job as an investigator with the police with a higher starting pay than a new constable.

unattendedbag

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is just a way to make money from people with an interest in the job.

That was my first reaction when I read the headline. A mate of mine was applying for one of the smaller UK police forces back in 2006. There was in excess of 35k applications for about a hundred positions which caused a delay of about 8 months purely due to sorting through all the applications. I wasn't surprised one bit when the following years they only invited applications from specials for full time positions.

If this story is true then it sounds like they are actively trying to discourage people from applying or trying to make a few Bob from the recruitment process.

Scouser

foreign wrote: »

So the current lot are a bunch of dumb chimps?

i dont know how you arrived at that - maybe its drawn from your own insecurities, but i never said it

i was just attempting to get into mind of the head of policing

having a specific qual is not new for a prospective employer to ask in order for you to be eligible for a certain job - the police is no different

sure journalists and all sorts could do that course also. education is never wasted

Plus it also allows for a different train of thought - the legal studies I learned in templemore had a much different focus to that of my law studies in third level - although we studied the exact the same legislation, teaching and practice were totally different

Scouser

Scouser wrote: »

is it really so awful to expect a higher standard for the police?

Scouser wrote: »

i dont know how you arrived at that - maybe its drawn from your own insecurities, but i never said it

i was just attempting to get into mind of the head of policing

having a specific qual is not new for a prospective employer to ask in order for you to be eligible for a certain job - the police is no different

sure journalists and all sorts could do that course also. education is never wasted

Plus it also allows for independent thought - the legal studies I learned in templemore had a much different focus to that of my law studies in third level - although we studied the exact the same legislation, teaching and practice were totally different

I still think for myself too.

Scouser

foreign wrote: »

I still think for myself too.

is that all you arrived at from what i said?

discus

****ing hell, so this scouser lad has actually been through templemore? And he is surprised that the the law is taught differently in a 3rd level setting to Templemore!

Scouser

discus wrote: »

****ing hell, so this scouser lad has actually been through templemore? And he is surprised that the the law is taught differently in a 3rd level setting to Templemore!

i dont think i expressed surprise in what I said

TheNog

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

This is something that was raised in the UK parliament today, and is likely to become a bit of a talking point over the next few days.

Basically the UK government is planning to bring in a requirement that will see anyone wanting to apply to the police force having to undergo a pre-application education course. The applicant will have to pay £1,000 to sit the course, and you cannot even apply to join the force without having sat the course.

There are some UK politicians voicing some serious concern about this - saying that it closes off the police force to those who are less well off and cannot afford such a course.

Any way, what do people think? Good, bad idea? It is certainly a step that I hope our government will not follow.

Terrible idea. It's a money making exercise and as the article stated would only attract people who could afford it rather than attracting people from all walks of life.

Who ever heard of doing a course just to get into college to do a course?

Anyway if it was brought in here they would probably issue grants for those who couldn't afford it therefore costing the taxpayer more money.

Scouser

TheNog wrote: »

Who ever heard of doing a course just to get into college to do a course?

.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/vocational_education_and_training/post_leaving_certificate_courses.html

http://www.inchicorecollege.ie/pre-nursing_studies.htm

etc etc

bravestar

Scouser wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/vocational_education_and_training/post_leaving_certificate_courses.html

http://www.inchicorecollege.ie/pre-nursing_studies.htm

etc etc

Are the plc and nursing studies compulsory like the one in England? Or are they meant to enhance your chances?

Scouser

bravestar wrote: »

Are the plc and nursing studies compulsory like the one in England? Or are they meant to enhance your chances?

having a nursing degree id imagine is compulsory to be hired as a nurse

so having a pre nursing course in order to get that degree would be important for certain people

bravestar

Scouser wrote: »

having a nursing degree id imagine is compulsory to be hired as a nurse

so having a pre nursing course in order to get that degree would be important for certain people

Thanks for that insight, the whole degree thing really had me confused. Now I know what's on that paper they gave me. You go on to say a pre nursing course would be important for some people... Some, not all?

Scouser

bravestar wrote: »

Thanks for that insight, the whole degree thing really had me confused. Now I know what's on that paper they gave me. You go on to say a pre nursing course would be important for some people... Some, not all?

yup - some people need the pre nursing course as they may not have the pre requisite education to go straight into nursing straight

so having extra knowledge would bring them in line with it

Scouser

Scouser wrote: »

yup - some people need the pre nursing course as they may not have the pre requisite education to go straight into nursing straight

so having extra knowledge would bring them in line with it

So you are equating having to do a course to make up for not having the educational requirements to everybody with the educational requirements having to pay to do a course to be considered to apply for a job?

bravestar

Scouser wrote: »

yup - some people need the pre nursing course as they may not have the pre requisite education to go straight into nursing straight

so having extra knowledge would bring them in line with it

Thanks for proving my point.

Scouser

foreign wrote: »

So you are equating having to do a course to make up for not having the educational requirements to everybody with the educational requirements having to pay to do a course to be considered to apply for a job?

your hopping from billy to jack

your focusing on the money - which i think is spin. the whole debate is misleading as it sounds as if you must pay a 1000euro entry fee to the college, this is not so

basically, the police are asking candidates to have a certain level of education before they can join.

this education, like all education, costs money but whether its 10euro or 1000euro, an employer has the right to request that prospective applicants achieve a certain criteria

the second point that was thrown up was -' its a bit ridiculous to ask somebody to do a course in order to do another course'. To respond to that i used the PLC and Pre Nursing examples to prove that it is quite common actually for this to happen



the job I currently occupy has required me to fork over an awful lot of dough in order to achieve a high level or education and skill in order to be qualified for selection. It was not an apprenticeship nor was training provided (like the police). My role needed X Y and Z in order for me to qualify so I went out and achieved X Y and Z. Funds for X Y and Z came from my pocket and the time spent qualifying was on my own time

Its not unreasonable for the police to ask for this either - in my opinion

Scouser

Scouser wrote: »

your hopping from billy to jack

your focusing on the money - which i think is spin. the whole debate is misleading as it sounds as if you must pay a 1000euro entry fee to the college, this is not so

basically, the police are asking candidates to have a certain level of education before they can join.

this education, like all education, costs money but whether its 10euro or 1000euro, an employer has the right to request that prospective applicants achieve a certain criteria

the second point that was thrown up was -' its a bit ridiculous to ask somebody to do a course in order to do another course'. To respond to that i used the PLC and Pre Nursing examples to prove that it is quite common actually for this to happen



the job I currently occupy has required me to fork over an awful lot of dough in order to achieve a high level or education and skill in order to be qualified for selection. It was not an apprenticeship nor was training provided (like the police). My role needed X Y and Z in order for me to qualify so I went out and achieved X Y and Z. Funds for X Y and Z came from my pocket and the time spent qualifying was on my own time

Its not unreasonable for the police to ask for this either - in my opinion

What exactly is wrong with the current recruitment process? Policing is supposed to reflect our population. Obviously there should be a minimum education level, over here it's leaving cert. What more is needed?

It was being suggested that to join AGS you'd have to have your own first aid certs, lifesaving etc. This would only have been to save the orginisation money in not having to train people themselves.

It just appears to be a way to cut their own costs because of the level of cuts. Look at the reduction in services in UK forces. Atm it's dog units getting cut back.

Scouser

foreign wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with the current recruitment process? Policing is supposed to reflect our population. Obviously there should be a minimum education level, over here it's leaving cert. What more is needed?

It was being suggested that to join AGS you'd have to have your own first aid certs, lifesaving etc. This would only have been to save the orginisation money in not having to train people themselves.

It just appears to be a way to cut their own costs because of the level of cuts. Look at the reduction in services in UK forces. Atm it's dog units getting cut back.

im not really advocating it but im not opposing it either!

i just saw through the spin of it (i think anyway)