Reliable Classic cars

Muahahaha

I normally ride a motorbike for my daily commute inside the m50 which suits me grand. However I do weekly trips 30 miles away as well as the odd jaunt to Galway, Belfast, etc. Having been caught out in the rain on motorways a lot recently I'm thinking of buying a car for these these types of longer journeys and keeping the motorbike for travel inside the m50.

As I'd only be driving 2000-3000 miles of year what puts me off a regular car is the tax and the annual NCT hurdles, I don't want to be spending upwards of €1000 on these which is why a classic car with no NCT requirements and cheap tax (€60 a year I think?) would suit my pockets.

What got me thinking about this was the Ford Cortina that popped up on Bangernomics a couple of weeks ago, apart from the leather interiors it was going for a bargain €1,200. Like other posters on the thread I'm annoyed I didn't have a chance to buy it as I'm not looking to spend much more than a couple of K.

So what I'm after is a car that qualifies for classic insurance and tax but my main criteria is that it is reliable as it could likely be laid up and only used once a week or less, I really need something that I'll have confidence that will start every time, even in winter. What sort of makes/models should I be looking out for ? there are a lot of classic Jags about but I'm guessing I could find no end of trouble with them. Also a good few Morris Minors but I'm really after a 2l+ engine for a bit of poke on the motorway.

jayok

Get your self a 15+ year old Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla. These things will run forever.

<edit> never mind I just saw the classic tax requirement as well.

Still with tax on a 1.4 at 385 per annum, it's not the biggest bill.

Kenny Logins

Porsche 924?

shawnee

Merc 123 are bombproof , comfortable and will always start. After that is your own personal choice:)

Red Kev

^ LOL. Saw the title and thought of a W123 straight away.

You're looking at a Merc W123 or W115, maybe even an early W126 if you can handle 18-24 MPG and you'll have the luxury to boot . Possibly a BMW E21 or maybe an VW Golf I. All are reliable and will start in the rain when you need it to. All are common for classics, loads of parts around that are relatively cheap as well and easy to fix if you're into that sort of thing.

Early Saab 900 or 99 are also very good and very comfy cars.

Plenty of 70's and early 80's Jap classics around, mega reliable, just check for rust, the worst ones have all rusted away years ago.

Stavros Murphy

What's the cut-off year for no NCT and classic tax btw? I'm vague on that tbh. Like to know.

hoodie6029

Must be registered before 1980 for the nct exemption.
If you had the classic tax would 55 a year bother you for the nct?
Impartial health check once a year, its a bargain imo.

ArnieSilvia

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Porsche 924?

Not a great choice IMO and not a good idea as I learned myself hard way.

Get yourself small engined car and you'll be laughing. Unless you have a garage, tools time and don't mind rust in your eyes and black grease under nails, just take my advice. Classic cars are not fun as daily's. I learned my lesson and went back to my jap cars, currently proud owner of Legnum vr-4:D

I went to UK to get a good 924 and it broke my heart. This is a porsche after all, parts not that easily accessible (read: specialists from UK, be prepared to be screwed on shipping) and fixing this thing was a true nightmare. This is said by me who is not fearing engine swaps, building cars from shell etc. Access around exhaust manifold, the whole concept of tube with driveshaft (rod???) inside it carried by bearings hung on some 30 year old rubber that cost mega $$ to fix), the way engine is fitted to chassis etc etc, just forget it.

Electrics were going mad on the thing, water ingress from everywhere causing havoc and non start condition. Insulation coming off wires after 30 years.
Early injection system unreliable and it had a problem to start when hot.
No power steering
Gutless, no power really and I mean it, was shyte, 1.2 punto was so much more fun in comparison. 2.0 Engine kinda strokey (i.e lazy), no life in it, wouldn't rev happily, felt 1940's.
Rear seats unuseable and no seatbelts in the back (1979) Front seats not comfortable, trim of cheap plastic type
etc etc

Later it turned out there is also a crack in cylinder head, had to get another engine in the end. Another engine had exhaust manifold with broken studs that wouldn't come off. Had to cut off manifold:D but some metal bit found its way into engine results easily predictable. Had to take head off, mix&match good valves and put it on old block. All that outside, on my driveway, on my back in worst cold Ireland had in years.

Worst of all, when it came to selling I was offered shyte money and spent 120 euro on petrol driving with people on test drives who seem to come to "just have a look at it" as some later admitted.

The ONLY way I'd like to see it would be strip it to bare shell, fit some light modern engine (high revving Mitsubishi 2.0 V6 mivec, honda s2000 etc), new wiring loom to it, cage it and enjoy on track.

shawnee

I bought a merc 123 4 years ago and it has really cost me only an accelerator cable and tryres since then in maintenance. I did do some bodywork but that was factored into the price. Starts first time every time , very comfortable , power steering , central locking and its 1978. If only the modern electrics and cars were as reliable as these motors. I did have the advantage of a friend who loves the mercs and helped me to choose it. Haven't driven it a lot in the last while but a charge of the battery and I know it will and drive well.:p Do some research and get someone who knows about the model you are buying and you will enjoy the journey.

Kenny Logins

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

Not a great choice IMO and not a good idea as I learned myself hard way.

Get yourself small engined car and you'll be laughing. Unless you have a garage, tools time and don't mind rust in your eyes and black grease under nails, just take my advice. Classic cars are not fun as daily's. I learned my lesson and went back to my jap cars, currently proud owner of Legnum vr-4:D

I went to UK to get a good 924 and it broke my heart. This is a porsche after all, parts not that easily accessible (read: specialists from UK, be prepared to be screwed on shipping) and fixing this thing was a true nightmare. This is said by me who is not fearing engine swaps, building cars from shell etc. Access around exhaust manifold, the whole concept of tube with driveshaft (rod???) inside it carried by bearings hung on some 30 year old rubber that cost mega $$ to fix), the way engine is fitted to chassis etc etc, just forget it.

Electrics were going mad on the thing, water ingress from everywhere causing havoc and non start condition. Insulation coming off wires after 30 years.
Early injection system unreliable and it had a problem to start when hot.
No power steering
Gutless, no power really and I mean it, was shyte, 1.2 punto was so much more fun in comparison. 2.0 Engine kinda strokey (i.e lazy), no life in it, wouldn't rev happily, felt 1940's.
Rear seats unuseable and no seatbelts in the back (1979) Front seats not comfortable, trim of cheap plastic type
etc etc

Later it turned out there is also a crack in cylinder head, had to get another engine in the end. Another engine had exhaust manifold with broken studs that wouldn't come off. Had to cut off manifold:D but some metal bit found its way into engine results easily predictable. Had to take head off, mix&match good valves and put it on old block. All that outside, on my driveway, on my back in worst cold Ireland had in years.

Worst of all, when it came to selling I was offered shyte money and spent 120 euro on petrol driving with people on test drives who seem to come to "just have a look at it" as some later admitted.

The ONLY way I'd like to see it would be strip it to bare shell, fit some light modern engine (high revving Mitsubishi 2.0 V6 mivec, honda s2000 etc), new wiring loom to it, cage it and enjoy on track.

Are we talking about classic cars here or you?

The engine is Audi and running gear VW, parts are very easy to come by and not expensive at all. If 30 years + is important, the 924 is a good choice IMHO.

Kenny Logins

...but I do agree, not everybody is cut out for classic car ownership, and you do have to be prepared to get your hands dirty keeping them maintained.

Philope

hoodie6029 wrote: »

Must be registered before 1980 for the nct exemption.
If you had the classic tax would 55 a year bother you for the nct?
Impartial health check once a year, its a bargain imo.

When does the classic tax kick in ?

JohnBoy26

Unless you have a garage to park it in I wouldn't bother getting a classic.

quenching

You will not save money running a classic car versus a 10-15 year old Yaris, Micra or similar. Classics use a LOT more petrol, parts are not as readily available (and you will need some at some stage), and if your main use is for longer trips I'd consider the safety aspect also, very carefully. If you crash in a 30+ year old car it isn't going to end well, even compared to an ageing Yaris.

The NCT exemption for pre 1980's really is a double edged sword, I think its madness not to ensure that any car you drive is safe and roadworthy, especially for longer, higher speed trips.

All that said I've had a 1984 Mercedes 190E for the last 5 years as my daily transport, its not NCT exempt and I'm more than happy about this as its always sailed through what is essentially a very cheap safety check, it'll only qualify for classic tax this year so its been costing me approx €700 per year. I've had it serviced once a year as per the maintenance schedule and replaced a few bits and pieces due to age, othe than that its been faultless. I only drive it about 2000 miles a year, mostly suburban/city routes, and wouldn't be mad keen on taking my kids on a long trip in it, again purely from a safety aspect, mine is checked and maintained regularly by a classic Mercedes specialist but its still competing against much heavier/safer/stronger stuff if I'm unlucky enough to crash.

Old cars have been superseded by better, safer, and cheaper to run modern cars, which generally look awful and are no fun to drive, but they are the "sensible" choice.

I can't say this often enough, you won't save money with a classic, buy a Yaris from 1999–2005.

keithclancy

LWB W140 Mercedes S320.

Perfect for an LPG Conversion

piston

Late model Mk1 Golf Diesel. Or early '80s Audi 80/VW Passat TD.

ba_barabus

I can't think of anything more boring than an old diesel classic.

I think people forget that these was less than slow back in the day and tended to belch out black soot. Heater fan took an age to warm up and they were in no way pleasant to drive.

blastman

Philope wrote: »

When does the classic tax kick in ?

30 years. Still a few years to go for me, even though my Honda has been on classic insurance for a couple of years.

Kenny Logins

ba_barabus wrote: »

I can't think of anything more boring than an old diesel classic.

I think people forget that these was less than slow back in the day and tended to belch out black soot. Heater fan took an age to warm up and they were in no way pleasant to drive.

This country is diesel mad.

ba_barabus

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Unless you have a garage to park it in I wouldn't bother getting a classic.

Having read through the thread I think this is the best advice so far.

cabb8ge

Kenny Logins wrote: »

This country is diesel mad.

Not old, nasp, sh1t diesels though, no one wants them.

Philope

Kenny Logins wrote: »

This country is diesel mad.

Diesel on the brain.
The very last thing you'd need for a low mileage second car is a 'classic' diesel. Defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.

ArnieSilvia

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Are we talking about classic cars here or you?

The engine is Audi and running gear VW, parts are very easy to come by and not expensive at all. If 30 years + is important, the 924 is a good choice IMHO.

Well, I had a 1979 924 and shared my first hand experiences from daily user perspective to the benefit of OP and others. I wasn't going on about nice handling and porsche hype. I gave all this info to warn that 924's can be also viewed as pile of crap and life with classic/vintage as a daily can (or rather will) be a nightmare. Crash performance is poor on top of that.

924 was built from VW parts bin but don't be fooled by this. And Audi 8 valve engine is poor by any standards and not suited to a sports car dare I say it. Especially if compared to Japanese counterparts

BTT, If I was looking for a practical vintage car it would have to be a mint example and my choice would be any jap car like this: http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/honda-accord-dx-1-6/6052746
but the majority of jap cars will be very rusty by now.

Another choice would be a ...Renault 11. Simple 1.4 carb engine, comfy suspension, brakes adequate, enough room inside and in the boot, galvanized body. The one I had few years back was 20 years old with 300k km's on the clock, no rust whatsoever, over 5 years I did 50k km's in it and apart from consumables (oil,brake pads, shocks, exhaust) it needed heater matrix and combination switch for lights, that's all. Fuel consumption 5.5L@90 km/h, 7L 120 km/h. I crashed it at serious speed (driving 120 km/h and 3 sec braking before I hit a car in front of me) and chassis rail folded 10 cm in, bumper broke on top of corner but still in one piece, door/windscreed untouched. I basically opened door and was all grand, didn't even bother to go to hospital.

jimgoose

You won't go far wrong with an old Ford. 2.3GL Cortina or Granada be the job. Bear in mind that these things are somewhat intolerant of slapdash service schedules, though.

ianobrien

OP, it might be advantageous to do the maths. if its just cheapo transport, get a Yaris, Micra or another late 90's early 00's jap small car. They work out cheaper with running costs, fuel, service etc. Third party insurance can be cheaper than comprehensive classic insurance. The only saving is road tax and a sub 1litre car isnt that much more than classic tax.

if you want a classic, buy on condition and only condition. Most insurance companies need you to have another car and have restrictions, for example I can't take my one to work. You'll need dry storage to park at night (garage etc).

That been said, the Escort was pressed into daily service by the brother a few years ago for a couple of months and he was stranded twice (fuel pump failure and alternator bolt shearing, knocking off the fan belt). The driving experience is far superior to modern cars due to the level of feedback through the controls.

daz16

Have to say i'd second the merc 190 w201 as a reliable, easy to live with relatively cheap to run daily classic. Trouble is finding a good one.

Muahahaha

OP here, I think I'm owing to take the advice on this thread and stay away from classics if I'm looking at saving money. Thanks for all the replies lads, you've set me straight.