Advice needed

bikes

I am 34 , took over 15 hectares of the 60 hectare family farm 2 years ago,it was rented out for the past 14 years,so no entitlements with it. Bought low value entitlements in 2012.I am taking over the full 60 hectares this year, which I rent off the family. Do I try and buy high or low value entitlements also I don't have any cert. The only college is an hour and a half away and I cant see where I will get the time to do it . What is the handiest/fastest way to do it as it looks like I will need it.

agriman27

There is an online course available you should look at I don't know much it. Don't know much about entitlements either:)

farmerjj

not sure about 1st part of that question,but def would get the green cert it will make life a lot easier for u in the medium to long term,grants etc

bikes

Was talking to teagasc and he recons I have to do level 5 first then 6 ,he said it would take aprox 3 years altogether .

Zr105

On the green cert, if you have a non Agri related level 6 or higher course done you can apply for the distance education option, it basically means most of it is done online with something like 1 day a month hands on, in a classroom or on farm visit etc... Cost is around €2k (cant remember if exactly 2 but close to it)

Was hoping to be doing it atm but didnt get a place, it's fairly well in demand when the applications open up...

mikefoxo

Zr105 wrote: »

Was hoping to be doing it atm but didnt get a place, it's fairly well in demand when the applications open up...

Does anyone know when it opens up this year?

nashmach

mikefoxo wrote: »

Does anyone know when it opens up this year?

Best to drop Teagasc a note, it will depend on your local college bit typically around September it starts but applications will be in around April time.

benjydagg

bikes wrote: »

I am 34 , took over 15 hectares of the 60 hectare family farm 2 years ago,it was rented out for the past 14 years,so no entitlements with it. Bought low value entitlements in 2012.I am taking over the full 60 hectares this year, which I rent off the family. Do I try and buy high or low value entitlements also I don't have any cert. The only college is an hour and a half away and I cant see where I will get the time to do it . What is the handiest/fastest way to do it as it looks like I will need it.

My personal opinion is spend stocking loan on entitlements. They are now guaranteed up to 2019. Higher value are my preference. Having a guaranteed income going to the bank manager is a major plus.

Farmer Pudsey

Have you other land and have you SFP on it OP.

bikes

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Have you other land and have you SFP on it OP.

I own 40 acres and bought entitlements for it in 2012 and got a sfp in 12,13.In 14 I will be farming a further 170 acres(leased off my family) ,which I have no entitlements for yet

Farmer Pudsey

bikes wrote: »

I own 40 acres and bought entitlements for it in 2012 and got a sfp in 12,13.In 14 I will be farming a further 170 acres(leased off my family) ,which I have no entitlements for yet

If you were farming in 2012&13 you are in the qualifying period I think. This is that you were an active farmers in 2013. I may be wrong. The precieved wisdom is that all land declared will have payments activated in 2015. At what lever is the question. There is a minimum payment proposed on all land that is activated in 2015 and this will be risen to is it 60% of national average by 2019 which is about 170 euro/HA. I think the proposed minimum is about 90/HA. How this will effect present payment is a question that we do not know the answer. Will you receive the top up as a new enterent ?.

170 acre= 68Ha and 40 =16HA.

If the 170 is seperated it seems that you may get about 6100 in sfp rising to 11500. However will the thinking is that all sfp will be equalized over all land. so the SFP on the 16HA may be spread over this.

Say you had 300/HA on this spread over 84HA will give you a starting payment of 57 rising to 90 or 7560 on all land. In 2019 this will be 170/ha so a total payment of 14280. If a new enterent will you get a top up from 2015-2017???. However is you buy SFP will you be able to finance SFP on 68HA. Buying SFP of 300HA at 2 by value = fee costing 610/HA will cost about 41K this may generate about 55K in extra SFP over the 5 years(assuming that it goes from 90-170 in more or less equal steps.

However this money is taxable while the SFP you buy is not tax deductable.

I be slow buying SFP on it sums do not add you no matter what permutation you do unless you try to project possible earning post 2019.

coolshannagh28

My understanding is that a national reserve will allocate sfp to farmers without any, the question is at what rate ,a regional average or the minimum payment ? .If you farmed in 2013 you are deemed to be active and qualify for entitlements there is a grey area as to whether 2013 or 2015 are the years where the allocations are decided and also a debate around rented or leased land and ownership of the future payments.
As regards buying as pudsey indicates there is a fair premium on reasonable value entitlements and you would need to do the numbers and be sure of your ground before taking the plunge.
There is too little information out there at the minute and the dept would be doing farmers a favour if they clarified matters.
I have previously been a buyer and see it as an excellent medium term investment and will trade again as the opportunity presents itself

bikes

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you were farming in 2012&13 you are in the qualifying period I think. This is that you were an active farmers in 2013. I may be wrong. The precieved wisdom is that all land declared will have payments activated in 2015. At what lever is the question. There is a minimum payment proposed on all land that is activated in 2015 and this will be risen to is it 60% of national average by 2019 which is about 170 euro/HA. I think the proposed minimum is about 90/HA. How this will effect present payment is a question that we do not know the answer. Will you receive the top up as a new enterent ?.

170 acre= 68Ha and 40 =16HA.

If the 170 is seperated it seems that you may get about 6100 in sfp rising to 11500. However will the thinking is that all sfp will be equalized over all land. so the SFP on the 16HA may be spread over this.

Say you had 300/HA on this spread over 84HA will give you a starting payment of 57 rising to 90 or 7560 on all land. In 2019 this will be 170/ha so a total payment of 14280. If a new enterent will you get a top up from 2015-2017???. However is you buy SFP will you be able to finance SFP on 68HA. Buying SFP of 300HA at 2 by value = fee costing 610/HA will cost about 41K this may generate about 55K in extra SFP over the 5 years(assuming that it goes from 90-170 in more or less equal steps.

However this money is taxable while the SFP you buy is not tax deductable.

I be slow buying SFP on it sums do not add you no matter what permutation you do unless you try to project possible earning post 2019.

cheers for the calculations , hopefully I can get the cert done asap and maybe get the topup.

Farmer Pudsey

bikes wrote: »

cheers for the calculations , hopefully I can get the cert done asap and maybe get the topup.

TBH we are only guessing to a certain extent however until Dept clarify the rules risk out weights options.