Develop running route app

DogSlySmile

Hey,

I have an idea for a commercial phone app that I would love to get made. Basically, it’s a running route map app like mapmyrun but with some original functionality that would set it apart from the usual route map apps. The app would make it considerably easier to map routes than any other currently available route mapping app.

I don’t want to give everything away (I’m sure you’ve read that countless other times on this forum! :P) but I’d love to talk to some experienced app developers who might be interested in developing this. I think this app (if made) would be very popular with people who run.

What the app would need:

User Location data
Map function
Sign in/password log in
Memory to save routes

I’m not very techy so I’m not sure what is needed re servers, database, platform etc.

I'm saving for a wedding at the moment so funds are limited but will be able to offer some sort of payment. Hopefully the app will be profitable so would be willing to offer a generous share to the developer.


Anyway, I dont want to get too far ahead of myself so please PM me if you have any interest in possibly developing this.

The Corinthian

DogSlySmile wrote: »

What the app would need:

User Location data
Map function
Sign in/password log in
Memory to save routes

I’m not very techy so I’m not sure what is needed re servers, database, platform etc.

Off the top of my head, possibly the most complex piece of functionality you'll require is route calculation logic, depending upon how you want this to work.

I'm saving for a wedding at the moment so funds are limited but will be able to offer some sort of payment. Hopefully the app will be profitable so would be willing to offer a generous share to the developer.

A generous share? No offence, but what is your role in all of this, beyond an initial idea?

TBH, you might be enthusiastic about this app, but it won't be you giving up hundreds or thousands of your hours to make it come to life (indeed, we've already questioned what you'll actually be doing).

As such "hopefully the app will be profitable" is not a serious pitch to any developer - seriously, would you work for free for a few weeks or months solely on the promise that "hopefully" you'll get paid something?

DogSlySmile

The Corinthian wrote: »

A generous share? No offence, but what is your role in all of this, beyond an initial idea?

Cheers for the input. Yes a generous share. TBH, I was considering submitting my idea to MEDLMobile but I didnt like the way my idea would become their property. I have a lot of ideas for this app, separate functions, tools etc., I've only given the bare outline above.

The Corinthian wrote: »

TBH, you might be enthusiastic about this app, but it won't be you giving up hundreds or thousands of your hours to make it come to life (indeed, we've already questioned what you'll actually be doing).

True, I agree. But this is why the developer would receive the lions share of profits (if any ).

The Corinthian wrote: »

As such "hopefully the app will be profitable" is not a serious pitch to any developer - seriously, would you work for free for a few weeks or months solely on the promise that "hopefully" you'll get paid something?

No, I understand where you are coming from. But apps like this can be profitable. I read recently that mapmyrun has 9 million users worldwide. I'm not saying that my app idea will be as popular but I think its a unique idea that would interest a lot of runners and walkers. There is a fitness boom right now and I think my app idea could take a lot of the hassle out of planning a run/walk.

I know these threads are common on this forum but if you'd like to know more about my idea I'd be happy to PM you more details. Just promise not to steal the idea;)

The Corinthian

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Cheers for the input. Yes a generous share. TBH, I was considering submitting my idea to MEDLMobile but I didnt like the way my idea would become their property. I have a lot of ideas for this app, separate functions, tools etc., I've only given the bare outline above.

If, by generous share, you mean around 99% plus you relinquishing any executive role, then you may have the right formula.

No, I understand where you are coming from. But apps like this can be profitable. I read recently that mapmyrun has 9 million users worldwide.

I recently read that some bloke in some small town in South Carolina won a bunch of money from the local lottery. Please PM me if you want to fund my buying of lottery tickets and if we win anything, you can have the lion's share of the winnings.

I'm not saying that my app idea will be as popular but I think its a unique idea that would interest a lot of runners and walkers. There is a fitness boom right now and I think my app idea could take a lot of the hassle out of planning a run/walk.

Not knowing the details of what you're proposing, I can't say, but I can say there's no shortage of simelar apps out there and it takes very little effort to find them. So I doubt if there's anything 'unique' about your idea and it's pretty clear that you made absolutely no effort to research it before posting here.

I know these threads are common on this forum but if you'd like to know more about my idea I'd be happy to PM you more details. Just promise not to steal the idea;)

No danger of that happening.

DogSlySmile

There really is no need for the negative, piss taking response. I only posted here because I have no background in app development, so I hope your petty tirade has made you feel like a big man.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not knowing the details of what you're proposing,

Exactly, you dont know what Im proposing because I havent told you.

The Corinthian wrote: »

I can say there's no shortage of simelar apps out there and it takes very little effort to find them.

How can you say this??? You just said that you dont know what I'm proposing! OK, show me the apps that I havent researched if they are so obvious to find?

The Corinthian wrote: »

So I doubt if there's anything 'unique' about your idea and it's pretty clear that you made absolutely no effort to research it before posting here.

You havent a clue about what I've done to research this. Fair enough, I'm limited to searching the net/app stores but there really is no need for such a dismissive post.

Colonel Panic

It doesn't sound like you've done much to research the development aspect of it though. Developers get pretty sick of idea people thinking "X product with a new hat" will change the world.

Getting an app like this off the ground in terms of development and marketing in the face of well established competitors is a massive and expensive undertaking. Ideas are useless without the implementation and no one's going to work for free on the promise of being maybe being paid down the line.

The Corinthian

DogSlySmile wrote: »

There really is no need for the negative, piss taking response. I only posted here because I have no background in app development, so I hope your petty tirade has made you feel like a big man.

Cry me a river. If you can't take criticism this early on in a business venture, I suggest you crawl back under the blankets and stay there. What I've done is simply to briefly sanity check your idea. If you can rebut my points, then that will impress me or any potential developer or investor reading this thread.

If someone suggests you bring nothing to the business; defend your role and why you bring value to it, don't get all upset and confirm everyone's opinion that you're just dead weight.

If someone suggests that what you're offering makes as much sense as playing the lotto, then rebut that assertion and show how what you propose has a substantially better risk-ROI ratio. Otherwise you're just telling potential investors (which includes those who may invest their time and expertise) that you don't like difficult questions.

How can you say this??? You just said that you dont know what I'm proposing! OK, show me the apps that I havent researched if they are so obvious to find?

I can say this because you've given a broad description of what your app would entail and so I can point to simelar apps without having details - note the use of the word simelar.

You already said that it's essentially MapMyRun with some extra functionality, so you already introduced the first simelar app.

A quick (2 min) Google will also throw up also the following:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.outdoorapps.hiketimecal
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapmyhikeplus.android2
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=psyberia.alpinequest.full
http://walkit.com/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.puttu.androidapps

Any of which could share some your "unique" functionality, which ultimately may make no difference. Remember, as in many ventures, failure isn't always because someone else did what you did better or cheaper - it can also be that they did something simelar better or cheaper.

You havent a clue about what I've done to research this. Fair enough, I'm limited to searching the net/app stores but there really is no need for such a dismissive post.

You've done almost nothing to research this.

How do I know? Easy. To begin with you make no mention of any research - had you done some, you would have mentioned it when stating your various claims (such as the "unique" nature of that extra functionality).

Then there's the fact that you haven't even bothered to read the most basic article about how apps make money; it's clear you've no idea what the revenue models are, and instead vague talk about 'profit'.

Or just the whole mobile ecosystem either (or what an ecosystem is), because you simply asked for a developer and though you actually bullet pointed some needed functionality, you didn't include the most basic information, such as what OS's it would need to run on.

Oh and marketing... is this another one of those if we build it they will come apps? They don't. And marketing isn't free. No mention of it from you though, beyond the implication that you can't afford any.

So, no you've done bugger all research and came here to get someone else to not only develop your app for you, but also do your research for you too.

DogSlySmile

Colonel Panic wrote: »

It doesn't sound like you've done much to research the development aspect of it though. Developers get pretty sick of idea people thinking "X product with a new hat" will change the world.

Getting an app like this off the ground in terms of development and marketing in the face of well established competitors is a massive and expensive undertaking. Ideas are useless without the implementation and no one's going to work for free on the promise of being maybe being paid down the line.

I appreciate the input CP. No havent done much research on the dev side. I'm not very technically minded, hence my request to discuss this matter with an app developer who has some experience.

I agree, ideas are useless without implementation, but I never asked anyone to work for free. By 'some sort of payment' I meant upfront payment, should have been more explicit there.

Do you develop apps yourself CP?

DogSlySmile

The Corinthian wrote: »

Cry me a river...

I value creative criticism Corinthian but its like I'm on Dragons Den here!!!

In response to your comment about me 'bringing nothing to the business', how do ideas become reality? First comes the idea, then the development. The idea man is nothing without the developer. And the developer has nothing to develop without an idea. Now, once the idea has been developed the idea man may no longer be needed, per se, however I do have some ideas to continually develop the functionality of the app (the mapping function would be the most basic function of the app should it ever be made).

Fair play, you found the same apps as I did when I was doing my 'research'. But you didn't find any apps that function in the same way as my idea. Which is what would make my idea 'unique'. Its kind of like how 'simelar' and 'similar' are spelled alike. But they are not the same word.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply in detail to my post but clearly you see no potential for my idea. I will take your suggestions on board however.

Colonel Panic

DogSlySmile wrote: »

I appreciate the input CP. No havent done much research on the dev side. I'm not very technically minded, hence my request to discuss this matter with an app developer who has some experience.

I agree, ideas are useless without implementation, but I never asked anyone to work for free. By 'some sort of payment' I meant upfront payment, should have been more explicit there.

Do you develop apps yourself CP?

The thing is, "some sort of payment" for me to even think about it would be in the order thousands of euros paid over the course of the application's development with functional milestones laid out in advance.

The problem for any developers posting on this forum comes back to the "Like huge product X but with a new hat". It's even worse when you won't let us see the hat.

There are plenty of companies that do bespoke mobile app development. That's what I'd search for. Get in touch with them and see what they have to say.

DogSlySmile

Colonel Panic wrote: »

The thing is, "some sort of payment" for me to even think about it would be in the order thousands of euros paid over the course of the application's development with functional milestones laid out in advance.

Thanks. Good to have a ball park anyway.

Colonel Panic wrote: »

The problem for any developers posting on this forum comes back to the "Like huge product X but with a new hat". It's even worse when you won't let us see the hat.

There are plenty of companies that do bespoke mobile app development. That's what I'd search for. Get in touch with them and see what they have to say.

I'm sure you can appreciate that people dont want to show 'the hat' on an open internet forum. I read up a bit about copyright law with regard to technology and basically whoever creates the tech first, owns the tech and copyright. At least if I am PMing someone I can control who sees the message.

I was in touch with Tapadoo and BigDog but unfortunately my lack of funds is again a stumbling block.

Colonel Panic

Unless they're some paradigm shifting features which you could patent before even developing them, I wouldn't worry about it.

Say you released your product and I wanted to add the feature to my rival product and you hadn't patented the idea, what's to stop me?

The Corinthian

DogSlySmile wrote: »

I value creative criticism Corinthian but its like I'm on Dragons Den here!!!

I tried being nice at the start, after which point you started getting upset that I was posing "piss taking" responses.

In reality, what I posed was a perfectly valid comparison - if all you have to base your app's likely success is that "apps like this can be profitable. I read recently that mapmyrun has 9 million users worldwide", then you literally are pitching something no more likely to succeed than buying Lotto tickets. If you think that's ridiculous, then it's only that because when looked at in the cold light of critical assessment what you're pitching is as ridiculous too.

But instead this point whooshed over your head and you took it as a personal insult; and so this is when I decided I wasn't going to be able to help you by tiptoeing around things. Sorry, but there you go.

In response to your comment about me 'bringing nothing to the business', how do ideas become reality? First comes the idea, then the development. The idea man is nothing without the developer. And the developer has nothing to develop without an idea. Now, once the idea has been developed the idea man may no longer be needed, per se, however I do have some ideas to continually develop the functionality of the app (the mapping function would be the most basic function of the app should it ever be made).

Let me know how many serious success stories are based upon original ideas and I may take your point seriously.

Even at that, as Colonel Panic has pointed out, you're not presenting any original idea anyway, just something "Like huge product X but with a new hat", which could be adopted by a competitor in a heartbeat assuming it's not already out there.

I strongly advise you go and do some real research before you try to bring anyone on board. Look at where the revenue streams are. The make-up of the different ecosystems. How apps are marketed. Draw up a plan with a budget. Raise some real capital (with an investor, a loan, savings, whatever) and then make a realistic pitch to any potential technical partner.

Do that and you'll definitely get a much better response than you have here.

smcelhinney

There are a myriad of these types of posts on boards. Im with Corinthian on this. Stating that you have a lack of funds suggests that you're more concerned about the cost of the project than the success of it, and would ultimately undervalue any development effort.

Im afraid it's very much a case of piss or get off the pot. If your idea is as ground-breaking and unique as you think it is, look for investment from an interested party and pay a developer a fair wage for a fair days work.

cgarvey

Another +1 for The Corinthian's advice.

What you're talking about is at least 5 figures. Many multiples to get to the level of MapMyRun et. al.

I don't think you should even be researching the development of it at this stage. That's the least of your worries. You need to figure out a business plan, and gather some money.

No developer will bring you a MapMyRun level of app for revenue share. Either because they're good and aren't interested (extremely low chance of any revenue), or because they're too inexperienced to deliver that grade of app.

Now if you came in with "I've had a business plan drawn up, with a clear route to market and forecast of 100k sales in year 2, with 2 key sponsorship partnerships lined up to promote & distribute the app" then the eyebrows will start to raise (assuming you can back it all up, of course).

"I have an idea" doesn't cut it any more. Even if it's a good idea, it's extremely difficult to get a developer / development partner for anything shy of cash.

Graham

cgarvey wrote: »

"I have an idea" doesn't cut it any more. Even if it's a good idea, it's extremely difficult to get a developer / development partner for anything shy of cash.

Did "I Have an idea" ever cut it?

It's bizarre how people assign a value to an idea for an app when very few other types of ideas are given any value until they've moved well beyond the idea stage.

Imagine a similar discussion in the writers forum (I'm assuming there is one here somewhere):

I have an idea for a book, I would like someone to write the book for me in return for a share of the profits.

I have no idea about writing books as I have never written a book before but I have read lots of books in the past. This book should be easy to write for an experienced Author.

This book is about a boy wizard, it's a bit like Harry Potter but with a twist which I will discuss once an NDA has been signed. The Harry Potter books have sold 9.8 Squillion copies so there is a massive market here.

hardCopy

To the OP, in case you haven't used them, try out endomondo, Garmin fit and strava as well. These are hugely popular apps, each with their own extra features. All of these apps already have massive user bases, with mostly free users.

smcelhinney

Graham wrote: »

Imagine a similar discussion in the writers forum (I'm assuming there is one here somewhere):

I have an idea for a book, I would like someone to write the book for me in return for a share of the profits.

I have no idea about writing books as I have never written a book before but I have read lots of books in the past. This book should be easy to write for an experienced Author.

This book is about a boy wizard, it's a bit like Harry Potter but with a twist which I will discuss once an NDA has been signed. The Harry Potter books have sold 9.8 Squillion copies so there is a massive market here.

Brilliant analogy. I will forever use this.

cgarvey

Graham wrote: »

Did "I Have an idea" ever cut it?

Yes. Unfortunately. Probably not for the scale of app we're talking about here, in fairness.

The Corinthian

Problem is that most of these ideas are basically founded in a 'get rich quick' mindset; what else do you think is the basis of logic which extends to no further than "such-and-such an app made millions, ergo my app which is almost identical, but with a new twist, could also make millions"? There's no more logic, or frankly effort, in such reasoning than "so-and-so won the Lotto, ergo if I buy a ticket, I too could win the Lotto".

In essence, it's about a dream, not a business, and this is why very few of these 'ideas' are actually thought through. Problem is that the odds of an idea taking off spontaneously are pretty much on a par with winning the Lotto. If you look at the posting history of some of those who try to flog their ideas, you'll find many of them are suffering financial difficulties, so any 'get rich quick' venture is inevitably going to be attractive to them.

So for me, the most frustrating thing is not this bizarre, almost religious, belief that just because they believe in their idea, you should too, without question. It's the laziness.

Think on it, you go to pitch an idea to someone; developer, VC, whomever. You want something from them, you want to sell them the idea, that it's worth their while long term to take a punt on it.

Yet none of these 'ideas' have had any real work done on them. A few quotes, maybe. Some Excel worksheets, with some voodoo analysis telling you that if you extend the graph out a few more years, you'll have sold more apps than there are people on planet Earth. A few URL's collected after spending an hour or two Googling. Maybe a few wireframes.

No business plan. No revenue model (that's still TBD), let alone research. No marketing plan. No budget estimates. No capital, beyond petty cash.

Absolutely nothing that would instil confidence in any potential investor with any hope that this venture will actually succeed - and the worst thing, is some of these could succeed if done properly.

So, what frustrates me is not the 'will you work for free' requests, but that they have the balls to ask without having done any work themselves.

There really needs to be a sticky posted on this at this stage.

smcelhinney

The Corinthian wrote: »

There really needs to be a sticky posted on this at this stage.

+1