Psychology or Psychotherapy

Wednesday Addams

Hi All

I'm hoping some of you can point me in the right direction as I've done a search and to be honest it's just caused me more confusion!

Firstly, my background is that I have BA in Media studies and a decent CV built up since working from the age of 18 in journalism, advertising sales/key account management and print/digital media. I also have experience teaching English abroad. I've never had any issue with employment as I've worked for some good companies and built up a good track record,; all of my roles have involved an element of direct sales bar the journo and I've a good record of achieving targets.

Fast forward to today. I currently work as a course advisor within the media area, this is a sales orientated role - however, there is a huge element of student liaisons - offering advice/career guidance etc., both face to face and over the phone. It's the advisory element of it that I love, I like sitting down with someone, identifying their best course of study, and helping them to come up with a plan in terms of advancing themselves. With regards to the sales element, it gets old fairly quickly - I know I'm good at it, I know I could keep doing it, but it's a job...not a vocation.

I have wanted to study psychology for years; in fact I initially wanted to study it following my LC but I knew there wasn't a chance of getting the points at the time.

Two years ago, I suffered a huge trauma which resulted in PTSD and I have been in counselling for this since. It's been a very tough few years, but I believe that what has got me through it is my self awareness and ability to look at the situation objectively regardless of my feelings (albeit not always possible but I do try). During this time, I have researched alot about PTSD and I also started up a blog which now has near 500 followers; I use my poetry and experiences to connect with others suffering from mental health issues and it's been an incredible resource to me. It's amazing when I get an email from someone who says that my blog helped them to feel a little less alone. I want that feeling every day. With regards to my own recovery, I have recently turned a corner with this, which is why I would like to get the ball rolling in terms of moving forward.

Prior to my recent trauma, I also had an extremely traumatic childhood; abusive, alcoholic parents who left me as the caregiver for my siblings from a very young age. It is this that has led to my specific interest in working with young people in mental health, as I believe there is a massive gap for these services.

So, here's what I want to do. I would like to work as a 'Project Worker', with disadvantaged families/young people with issues/young people in residential care, or alternatively as a therapist in this regard.

How do I get there? - here is my confusion.

My therapist has a BA in psych and an MA in Couns Psych; after seeing a few bogus 'counsellors' I was very much of the mindset that any therapist needed a Psych BA and a Masters to be reputable. However, reading up on it, I'm not sure I'm right.

Financially, I'm in 9k of debt, I'm putting my sibling through college and I can't really afford the time or money to do a Couns Psych Ph.D/MA. The way I see it, my options are: Psych H.Dip DBS or BA Couns and Psychotherapy. My work will possibly help to fund the Psychology H.Dip, but I couldn't swing it for the counselling BA. However, considering I'd need to do an MA after the psychology dip anyway it makes little difference financially.

My questions are:

If I do the psychology H.Dip, will I be able to apply for rolesi n the HSE as a care worker or project worker? Or indeed in a private centre? I've seen a few roles advertised which say they will accept a psych BA instead of social care, but how likely is this? A friend of mine did a psychology BA, got straight into the HSE care team and is now doing her MA in CBT whilst working there - is this a viable option still?

Work experience wise, I have 18 months exp in mentoring a teen with learning disabilities and I have applied for a few other roles in mental health facilities for this year.

I would really appreciate any advice on this at all!! I know it's a lot to go through, but I am so, so keen to get into this area and I'm determined to get there.

EDIT: Age is also a factor - I'm 28 this year!

Wednesday Addams

No-one?

dar100

You don't need a psych degree to be a therapist, although it would be a great foundation, but it is a long road.

You can become a counsellor with a BA in Counselling and Psychotherapy, as you already hold an undergrad degree, doing a Masters in this area would be a better option.

If you just wish to become a Project Worker, there are a number of different ways to achieve this, but the Counselling route would qualify you more so for this work.

Other qualifications, that will get you into the social care field, social studies/care, youth work, addiction etc. But a clinical education would be best IMO.

Wednesday Addams

dar100 wrote: »

You don't need a psych degree to be a therapist, although it would be a great foundation, but it is a long road.

You can become a counsellor with a BA in Counselling and Psychotherapy, as you already hold an undergrad degree, doing a Masters in this area would be a better option.

If you just wish to become a Project Worker, there are a number of different ways to achieve this, but the Counselling route would qualify you more so for this work.

Other qualifications, that will get you into the social care field, social studies/care, youth work, addiction etc. But a clinical education would be best IMO.

Thanks for replying

I thought that the preference would be for a social care degree for social care/project work; any job I've seen listed hasn't had counselling/psychotherapy listed as a requirement - it's all 'social care, psychology or related qualification'.

If I go for the MA, that will mean the H.Dip in Couns/Psychotherapy for 2 years followed by the 2 year MA; you think that would be the better route then? Instead of the 2 year H.Dip in psychology?

Thanks a mil

dar100

You could just go straight for a MA in Counselling and Psychotherapy, they are generally of 4 years duration.

Most jobs will specify what academic qualification they want, but put or equivalent beside it. I have been through the process myself and getting into these types of jobs with C&P is possible once you have work experience.

You could get onto a MA, maybe do a cert in counselling first though.

All the main universities do Masters in Psychotherapy, you would need to see what theories interest you, as some of the courses differ in their orientation

Wednesday Addams

dar100 wrote: »

You could just go straight for a MA in Counselling and Psychotherapy, they are generally of 4 years duration.

Most jobs will specify what academic qualification they want, but put or equivalent beside it. I have been through the process myself and getting into these types of jobs with C&P is possible once you have work experience.

You could get onto a MA, maybe do a cert in counselling first though.

All the main universities do Masters in Psychotherapy, you would need to see what theories interest you, as some of the courses differ in their orientation

I don't think a Uni would work as I have to study part-time. So I was thinking, 2 year H.Dip in DBS and then the 2 year Masters. Would that not work? I'd be most interested in their Masters tbh.

Also just wondering, you'd said initially counselling is the best route to these jobs, but just there you said it was 'possible' to get into them with a counselling qual and experience... Does that mean I'm right in that psych/social care would be preferred?

God this is confusing

Valmont

In the meantime keep up your work with the blog which is very impressive (maybe you could write a short book?). I think you sound like the perfect candidate to be a therapist just don't let the endless hoops get in your way and I would advise against any general qualifications in psychology as much of the material will not be relevant to your specific interests.

Wednesday Addams

Valmont wrote: »

In the meantime keep up your work with the blog which is very impressive (maybe you could write a short book?). I think you sound like the perfect candidate to be a therapist just don't let the endless hoops get in your way and I would advise against any general qualifications in psychology as much of the material will not be relevant to your specific interests.

Thank you for saying that, I've been a little disheartened!

I had initially thought a H.dip in psychology was the way to go, so I guess I was wrong! Would you also advise I go down the psychotherapy and counselling route? DBS do a H.dip in this which leads to an MA - but although their BA is ICAP accred, I don't think the MA is ? I've emailed them to check. It's odd. My current work may help to fund the H.dip also which would be great.

dar100

No Psychotherapy course is full time, usually one day a week. Although, the Masters in DCU, which I would recommend, is a 3 day block, once a month. C&P offers more than social care/psychology, skills ways

Wednesday Addams

dar100 wrote: »

No Psychotherapy course is full time, usually one day a week. Although, the Masters in DCU, which I would recommend, is a 3 day block, once a month. C&P offers more than social care/psychology, skills ways

I don't think you read my first post? Finance is a big issue so I have to keep working and I work 9-5.30, no leeway.

I'm pretty much looking for which course will best get me into project work, psychology or the couns and psychotherapy - both at DBS.

dar100

Wednesday Addams wrote: »

I don't think you read my first post? Finance is a big issue so I have to keep working and I work 9-5.30, no leeway.

I'm pretty much looking for which course will best get me into project work, psychology or the couns and psychotherapy - both at DBS.

Then you have your answer

JuliusCaesar

I would always recommend a course in psychology as an underpinning to counselling/therapy. It may not always be directly relevant, but gives a good training in looking at evidence which is of great use in therapy.

There's an awful lot of rubbish masquerading as therapy these days because counsellors don't have an evidence based approach, and I have come across a lot of clients who haven't gained much if anything from counsellors they've seen but have wasted a lot of time and money.



PS as regards working in the HSE - are they recruiting at all? I thought there's been a recruitment ban in place for the last few years.

krankykitty

The DBS C&P degree runs 1/2 evenings a week and 9 weekends a year. It can be fit in around a 9-5.30 job..

sambuka41

Project worker or youth counsellor are two very different jobs, each with their own set of requirements.

Neither counselling or psychology will guarantee you project worker roles. The reason is that there is a move towards registration in this country of the professional and auxiliary roles in social care. The only course that can assure you work in residential care is a qualification in Social Care. I think Maynooth does a MA in Youth and Social care. Eventually the jobs won't be open to people with psychology degrees either. (you may be lucky and get a job but just no guarantee)

In residential work/project worker you won't be engaging in therapy with the young people, and to be honest for the most part, they won't want your help. It's not an easy area to work in, there is a high burn out rate. Its long shift work hours, there can be assaults on staff depending on your unit, the money is ok, better in some places.

I would suggest you go with counselling, as it sounds like this is your passion, and try to work with young people in that role. Although most counsellors don't work at it full time, there is more potential for this to be an ongoing career for you.

Wednesday Addams

dar100 wrote: »

Then you have your answer

TBH no I haven't. You've given me quite ambiguous and conflicting answers, and not in the most helpful fashion either. I'm not sure why you bothered replying at all.

Wednesday Addams

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I would always recommend a course in psychology as an underpinning to counselling/therapy. It may not always be directly relevant, but gives a good training in looking at evidence which is of great use in therapy.

There's an awful lot of rubbish masquerading as therapy these days because counsellors don't have an evidence based approach, and I have come across a lot of clients who haven't gained much if anything from counsellors they've seen but have wasted a lot of time and money.



PS as regards working in the HSE - are they recruiting at all? I thought there's been a recruitment ban in place for the last few years.

As have I, that's why I was originally looking at the psychology BA first. But the thing is, that won't get me into an MA in psychotherapy if I want to do that in future and according to Dar, it isn't as relevant as psychotherapy/couns when applying for project worker roles - so I'm confused as hell.

As for HSE, I won't be qual for a good few years yet so I'm not too concerned! I'd love the likes of this position for example, but it doesn't state C&P as a requirement, it has psych or social care. I've emailed them to ask but haven't got a reply yet.

Wednesday Addams

krankykitty wrote: »

The DBS C&P degree runs 1/2 evenings a week and 9 weekends a year. It can be fit in around a 9-5.30 job..

Thanks, this is one of the ones I've been looking at. But I'm thinking the HDip and MA would be better as it's still 4 years.

Wednesday Addams

sambuka41 wrote: »

Project worker or youth counsellor are two very different jobs, each with their own set of requirements.

Neither counselling or psychology will guarantee you project worker roles. The reason is that there is a move towards registration in this country of the professional and auxiliary roles in social care. The only course that can assure you work in residential care is a qualification in Social Care. I think Maynooth does a MA in Youth and Social care. Eventually the jobs won't be open to people with psychology degrees either. (you may be lucky and get a job but just no guarantee)

In residential work/project worker you won't be engaging in therapy with the young people, and to be honest for the most part, they won't want your help. It's not an easy area to work in, there is a high burn out rate. Its long shift work hours, there can be assaults on staff depending on your unit, the money is ok, better in some places.

I would suggest you go with counselling, as it sounds like this is your passion, and try to work with young people in that role. Although most counsellors don't work at it full time, there is more potential for this to be an ongoing career for you.

This is really helpful. thank you! The thing is, I really do want to work as a project worker, I love the idea of working with a teenager and/or a family to work out a plan to improve their situation. I like looking at situations and how to work towards solutions and helping people to see that they have options in terms of making things better. This is a role I would love. I've been researching jobs all week. I even mailed a few people on LinkedIn and one lady came back to me who got into project work with a Law BA and 1 yrs voluntary exp - so it's all a little confusing.

sambuka41

Yes Positive Care use ABA in their approach, they are one of the only units that do this. They have a psychologist on staff and some of the staff are doing the ABA masters in Ulster. They are very good. In that case Psychology would be a benefit but only really in that case. (in that line of work there is definitely assaults and violent behaviour cause you are challenging the kids quite firmly, just to be aware).

I worked as a social care worker in a homeless unit with a BA in Psychology, but they are no longer opening jobs to anyone other than social care qualifications. Having counselling wouldn't rule you out for certain, it depends on the employer but this registration is coming down the line, its slow but eventually this is the way it will be. So you would be best thinking that if you are going to invest money and time into an education to go with the one that will pay off best for you in the long run.

Some people stay in the social care worker line of work for ever,but very few if I am honest. Its frontline, aggressive, very few kids come out the other side in one piece and you will watch the same children repeat the same dangerous cycles over and over until they age out. I've lost count of the young people that I worked with who have died. I know that sounds very bleak but the social care workers have a tough time cause there is no real distancing yourself from it.

There is more room for support and growth in the counselling field, and your own experiences would make you ideal in that area.


Just to add: Just to note, workers in the residential units are usually called Social Care Workers. the project Workers tend to be in centres maybe addictions, day services for homeless, there is one project for under 18's- day service homeless the CISP project , technically its Focus Ireland, funded by HSE. Those jobs you may get without Social Care qualification, you might get them with a MA in psychology or counselling.

Wednesday Addams

sambuka41 wrote: »

Yes Positive Care use ABA in their approach, they are one of the only units that do this. They have a psychologist on staff and some of the staff are doing the ABA masters in Ulster. They are very good. In that case Psychology would be a benefit but only really in that case. (in that line of work there is definitely assaults and violent behaviour cause you are challenging the kids quite firmly, just to be aware).

I worked as a social care worker in a homeless unit with a BA in Psychology, but they are no longer opening jobs to anyone other than social care qualifications. Having counselling wouldn't rule you out for certain, it depends on the employer but this registration is coming down the line, its slow but eventually this is the way it will be. So you would be best thinking that if you are going to invest money and time into an education to go with the one that will pay off best for you in the long run.

Some people stay in the social care worker line of work for ever,but very few if I am honest. Its frontline, aggressive, very few kids come out the other side in one piece and you will watch the same children repeat the same dangerous cycles over and over until they age out. I've lost count of the young people that I worked with who have died. I know that sounds very bleak but the social care workers have a tough time cause there is no real distancing yourself from it.

There is more room for support and growth in the counselling field, and your own experiences would make you ideal in that area.


Just to add: Just to note, workers in the residential units are usually called Social Care Workers. the project Workers tend to be in centres maybe addictions, day services for homeless, there is one project for under 18's- day service homeless the CISP project , technically its Focus Ireland, funded by HSE. Those jobs you may get without Social Care qualification, you might get them with a MA in psychology or counselling.

This is so helpful. thanks so much for taking the time to write it.

With regards to the difficulties/burn outs in social work - it doesn't put me off at all to be honest; I was already very aware of this, but it's something I feel very passionate about in terms of issues in the system right now and the lack of support - or correct support. However, a BA in Social Care isn't an option for me so I have to think smart, and if that means C&P is the way to go then that's how it is.

DBS got back to me about their MA in C&P and said it 'would qualify for registration with IACP' and that 'a high number of graduates are successful in their application' to IACP. I'm not sure what this means, as with the 4 year BA you're automatically under IACP when you grad according to the site. So there must be some difference in the H.Dip and MA route opposed to the BA route, I just can't see what it is!

sambuka41

Its usually down to the requirements, number of hours with clients/supervision. The H Dip is (I imagine) academic, you won't be seeing clients. So that gives 4 years with the BA to see clients and under go own therapy and supervision as opposed to the 2 years MA. I would say that's the only difference. Its worth checking out the IACP to see what they require for registration.

Wednesday Addams

Ah okay, that makes sense. Can I just ask, with regards to therapy - would hours with my current therapist count? I imagine the way things are going, that by the end of the year I may cut down the monthly sessions but it would be great if I could use that towards my personal therapy hours instead of going to someone new. I don't particularly want to dredge up everything I've dealt with in therapy over the past 2 years if I have to attend someone else for the course.

Wednesday Addams

I found this lady on LinkedIn, who has a H.Dip and MA, and is a project worker in an outreach centre as well as a psychotherapist. There's hope yet!

Wednesday Addams

Sambuka and everyone else - thank you so much for your help

However I'll be closing this account now as I think it's completely uncalled for to be 'warned' for telling an unhelpful poster they've been unhelpful.

Thanks again to those who did help! I'm pretty much set now!
WD

dar100

Wednesday Addams wrote: »

TBH no I haven't. You've given me quite ambiguous and conflicting answers, and not in the most helpful fashion either. I'm not sure why you bothered replying at all.

Excuse me Wednesday Adams, for taking the time to offer you information, which is relevant to you post. My feedback, was not conflicting or ambiguous, if it was why did you like the posts?

Here it is in simple english, a undergrad Psychology degree will only qualify to to further study that subject, in some cases giving relevant experience a individual may get into a Project Workers position in services such as the homeless sector. As JC pointed out, like myself in my first post, psyhology would be a great foundation to go onto study counselling at post grad level.

My comment regarding having your answer relates to the fact that you have narrowed your choice to both courses in DBS.

I have worked as a Project Worker, in areas such as the homeless sector and the addiction field, and as a youth worker, I also work as a counsellor, and my background is in C&P.

In summary, go pay someone for some career advoice, if what you are getting here is not to your liking.

PS I think the ambiguity and conflict belongs to you, I'm not unsure in the lest:):):)