What would you do?

PLUG71

A customer left in his Golf GTI in to be valeted and one of the valeters for whatever reason thought it would be good craic to race around the yard in said customers car.

Unluckily for him and the customer the valeter drove into a wall thus writing the car off ( bodywork and engine damage!)

Now, this valeting service is fairly new and one of many in the town!

From what I have been told all the lads working there are Romanian and live in a caravan in the same town.

What are the chances of them being insured?

Would you have left your car into a business thats not long established?

Report it stolen !

Sounds dodgy, but if you go to insurance they could have grounds not to pay any claim. I'd report it to Guards if you don't report it stolen.

PLUG71

Deleted User wrote: »

Report it stolen !

Sounds dodgy, but if you go to insurance they could have grounds not to pay any claim. I'd report it to Guards if you don't report it stolen.

Thankfully its not my car and to be honest the whole operation would put me using them.

There is so many of these cheapo car wash/valet places springing up!

Not once have I ever heard of them being checked out by the authorities

MuppetCheck

Deleted User wrote: »

Report it stolen !

Sounds dodgy, but if you go to insurance they could have grounds not to pay any claim. I'd report it to Guards if you don't report it stolen.

But it wasn't stolen. It was handed into their care willingly.

The customer should report it to their insurance company, the Gardai and see where the valeting company stand with regard to insurance.

biko

Reporting it stolen is a bit of a jump.

What did the business have to say? Did they offer anything? Surely they have insurance.
Tell the owner to contact the gardai (they probably will defer as it's a civil matter) and his insurance company.

See if you ring the insurance they may very well say you gave it in and it wasn't being driven by you I'd imagine they're screwed either way.

If they had no insurance then I doubt your friends insurance would cover it. And if it's reported stolen the Guards will know that they left it there at their own risk.

Even if the Guards could do anything, the best they could most likely do is arrest the lads for criminal damage and your friend waits a year or two to go to court and if they can't pay your friend is equally screwed.

PLUG71

PLUG71 wrote: »

Thankfully its not my car and to be honest the whole operation would put me using them.

There is so many of these cheapo car wash/valet places springing up!

Not once have I ever heard of them being checked out by the authorities

TBH if the lads had no insurance then your friend is screwed the best thing that would happen is the Guards prosecute for criminal damage. And you then have to make a claim against them which can take a year or two to come to court which your friend could loose based on the fact they handed the car over at their own risk.

Chances are the lads would be long gone out of the country by then.

As always proper legal advice is what's needed.

It doesn't sound good though !

PLUG71

biko wrote: »

Reporting it stolen is a bit of a jump.

What did the business have to say? Did they offer anything? Surely they have insurance.
Tell the owner to contact the gardai (they probably will defer as it's a civil matter) and his insurance company.

Thats the only info i have at the moment.

I will try to find out more.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

I'd absolutely run amok. The injustice of the whole situation would eat into my soul!

You can say I'm jumping to conclusions but if they live in a caravan at the side of the road, they're not going to have public liability insurance, and your own insurance wouldn't pay out either because your not the driver. So that leaves you down one car. You can sue, but I guess they'd be on a plane home long before it reaches court.

If they destroyed my possession then I'm justified in destroying one of their possessions

Atlantic Dawn

How would they report it stolen? They will have to fill in a report as to where, when, how it was stolen, when they are found out they will not only get zero they will also get done for fraud, all because someone else wrote off their car.

Who leaves a GTI with a valetor who lives in a caravan anyway?

newmug

Sure it was stolen! It was stolen by one of the valeters employees and taken for a joy-ride! I cant see the problem here. Call the guards, report it stolen (eventhough you know who stole it, and where they left it), get them to arrest yerman, and your own insurance will cover it under "theft", even if the Guards don't arrest yerman.

Lando Griffin

Maybe, just maybe the might be able to hammer those dents straight again without anyone knowing.
Im sure if they stayed at it all night they would make a go of it for the morning.

Supergurrier

So this is why my remap handset has valet mode

veetwin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Report it stolen !

Sounds dodgy, but if you go to insurance they could have grounds not to pay any claim. I'd report it to Guards if you don't report it stolen.

I'm sorry but this is terrible advice. The car clearly was not stolen so reporting it as such could land the owner in a lot more trouble than he is already.

Reporting to the Guards as a criminal damage probably won't be much good either. They will probably class it as a civil matter as the owner willing handed over the car to the valet company with the expectation that they would be driving it or at least moving it around their premises.

Whether this "company" is insured or not is anyone's guess but I'd venture that they are not. Again not a criminal matter.

Hopefully they are insured but if I was the owner I'd be reporting it to my own insurance and hoping they can recoup the value of the claim from the valet company.

Supergurrier

How is it not a criminal matter.

Also does anyone seriously think the insurance company will pay out on a hot hatch being slammed into a wall at speed possibly hundreds of metres from the valets premises, i doubt it.

mickdw

Doesnt every private policy state that the persons in the motor trade driving the car in the course of their work are covered?
This should really clear the policy holder / car owner of any wrong doing insurance wise and as such if comprehensively insured the owner should at least be paid on on their own insurance. I would think it is then up to the owners insurance to seek to recover all outlay from the party that caused the damage.

veetwin

Supergurrier wrote: »

How is it not a criminal matter.

Also does anyone seriously think the insurance company will pay out on a hot hatch being slammed into a wall at speed possibly hundreds of metres from the valets premises, i doubt it.

You would have to assume that the valeter did not intentionally wreck the car. He can claim he was parking it and wasn't able to handle the power. For a criminal prosecution to be successful the guards would have to prove that the valeter intended to cause damage. This would be difficult.

As to whether the insurance will pay out or not is anyone's guess but I would suggest it's the owners only hope. At end of the day this is why we pay for comprehensive.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

veetwin wrote: »

You would have to assume that the valeter did not intentionally wreck the car. He can claim he was parking it and wasn't able to handle the power. For a criminal prosecution to be successful the guards would have to prove that the valeter intended to cause damage. This would be difficult.

As to whether the insurance will pay out or not is anyone's guess but I would suggest it's the owners only hope. At end of the day this is why we pay for comprehensive.

I don't pay for comprehensive insurance so some tweed can drive my car into a wall :eek:

Supergurrier

veetwin wrote: »

You would have to assume that the valeter did not intentionally wreck the car. He can claim he was parking it and wasn't able to handle the power. For a criminal prosecution to be successful the guards would have to prove that the valeter intended to cause damage. This would be difficult.

As to whether the insurance will pay out or not is anyone's guess but I would suggest it's the owners only hope. At end of the day this is why we pay for comprehensive.

Read the original post

veetwin

Supergurrier wrote: »

Read the original post

I did. Obviously you are seeing something in it that I'm not.

veetwin

Walkin' Talkin' Stephen Hawkin wrote: »

I don't pay for comprehensive insurance so some tweed can drive my car into a wall :eek:

Neither do I and there is every chance they might refuse to pay out in this instance as they might claim the driver was uninsured.

Senecio

Probably a long shot but is there any chance the valet guy who was driving it at the time has comprehensive on his private car that covers him to drive other cars?

Unlikely I know.

discombobulate

mickdw wrote: »

Doesnt every private policy state that the persons in the motor trade driving the car in the course of their work are covered?
This should really clear the policy holder / car owner of any wrong doing insurance wise and as such if comprehensively insured the owner should at least be paid on on their own insurance. I would think it is then up to the owners insurance to seek to recover all outlay from the party that caused the damage.

I'd doubt that'd stretch to valet people though.

Are they an independent outfit or part of a chain OP? If their part of a chain i'd presume there'd be a better chance of them being insured.

There was a similar although likely more accidental example of this a few years ago with a Ferrari here

Matt Simis

Senecio wrote: »

Probably a long shot but is there any chance the valet guy who was driving it at the time has comprehensive on his private car that covers him to drive other cars?

Unlikely I know.

Even if he did, his private cover wouldnt extend to covering a diofferent car used for business purposes.

vectra

veetwin wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is terrible advice. The car clearly was not stolen so reporting it as such could land the owner in a lot more trouble than he is already.

Technically it was stolen,
It was handed in to be valeted. No permission was given by the owner for it to be raced around a yard.
The employee "stole it" and drove "without" the owners permission.


Now I will ask
What sort of Dope would had a Gti in to a crowd like that is beyond me.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

vectra wrote: »

Technically it was stolen,
It was handed in to be valeted. No permission was given by the owner for it to be raced around a yard.
The employee "stole it" and drove "without" the owners permission.


Now I will ask
What sort of Dope would had a Gti in to a crowd like that is beyond me.

I know in the UK there is a charge of TWOC, taking without consent, which this incident would fall under. But I don't think there's a similar charge here.

Your last question is a little harsh, maybe since it's a Gti you'd be a bit wary, but it'd never occur to me that some clown would plow into a wall when all he's meant to do is hoover and wash the bloody car.

PLUG71

newmug wrote: »

Sure it was stolen! It was stolen by one of the valeters employees and taken for a joy-ride! I cant see the problem here. Call the guards, report it stolen (eventhough you know who stole it, and where they left it), get them to arrest yerman, and your own insurance will cover it under "theft", even if the Guards don't arrest yerman.

They have a big yard it never was driven on the road!

PLUG71

discombobulate wrote: »

I'd doubt that'd stretch to valet people though.

Are they an independent outfit or part of a chain OP? If their part of a chain i'd presume there'd be a better chance of them being insured.

There was a similar although likely more accidental example of this a few years ago with a Ferrari here

As far as ive seen when passing the place it really does not look much more than four or five lads with buckets that have apparently been well under cutting other long established set ups around the town.

Another story I know :rolleyes:

PLUG71

UPDATE.

Now I really feel sorry for the owner!

The golf was put in for a spruce up because the car was sold and the new owner was on his way from Dublin to collect his new toy.

I have taken a pic of the car this morning and will post it as soon as I can.

It used to be a very nice bus and I'm told its a 2009!:mad:

veetwin

vectra wrote: »

Technically it was stolen,
It was handed in to be valeted. No permission was given by the owner for it to be raced around a yard.
The employee "stole it" and drove "without" the owners permission.

I'm afraid it was not stolen. If you go to a garage/valet, hand over your keys and the mechanic/valeter crashes your car into a wall you cannot turn around then and report it stolen/taken without consent.

The offence is actually taking without consent;


Taking vehicle without authority.

112.—(1) A person shall not use or take possession of a mechanically propelled vehicle without the consent of the owner thereof or other lawful authority.

Road Traffic Act 1961

Had to argue your car was stolen if you hand over the keys.

Saucy McKetchup

PLUG71 wrote: »

UPDATE.

Now I really feel sorry for the owner!

The golf was put in for a spruce up because the car was sold and the new owner was on his way from Dublin to collect his new toy.

I have taken a pic of the car this morning and will post it as soon as I can.

It used to be a very nice bus and I'm told its a 2009!:mad:

Ouch, although it looks like it's only cosmetic damage, are the valet guys still around?

PLUG71

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Ouch, although it looks like it's only cosmetic damage, are the valet guys still around?

I have it on good authority that it has sustained engine damage.

BMJD

If they aren't insured, can he claim from the MIBI?
http://www.mibi.ie/uninsured-unidentifi.html

Saucy McKetchup

PLUG71 wrote: »

I have it on good authority that it has sustained engine damage.

You'd have to be doing some speed in a small yard for it to cause engine damage.

PauloMN

At least it's clean, they did a good job on that! :pac:







(Sorry, couldn't resist, you have my sympathies OP )

BMJD

Has he at least reported it to the Gardai so there is some sort of record of an incident occurring?

limericklad87

Any update

reelkidmusic

The car is still sitting in the same spot but I haven't heard anything further on it.

GreeBo

veetwin wrote: »

I'm afraid it was not stolen. If you go to a garage/valet, hand over your keys and the mechanic/valeter crashes your car into a wall you cannot turn around then and report it stolen/taken without consent.

The offence is actually taking without consent;


Taking vehicle without authority.

112.—(1) A person shall not use or take possession of a mechanically propelled vehicle without the consent of the owner thereof or other lawful authority.

Road Traffic Act 1961

Had to argue your car was stolen if you hand over the keys.

Taking or using without consent.

A valet doesnt have my consent to drive my car, its not valet parking, its clean the bloody thing.

veetwin

GreeBo wrote: »

Taking or using without consent.

A valet doesnt have my consent to drive my car, its not valet parking, its clean the bloody thing.

Yes but if you give him the keys then permission is implied. If you bring your car to a car valeting premises and leave the car and keys with him then it is assumed that he has permission to move the car at least within their own premises.

You would need to take the keys with you and stress that they do not have permission to move the car.

Either way in this case the car was not stolen and trying to prove that it was would be. (a) impossible and (b) pointless. The damage happened on private premises and the Motor Insurance Bureau only cover incidents on public roads.

It's a crap situation for the OP but it's the chance you take when giving your car to an unregulated and uninsured business. Cars are damaged by garage employees all the time. Most are insured but back street valet/car cleaning outfits may not be.