R56 Cooper S Engine Rattle

Donnelly117

Hi Folks, I usually get some good help from you lot so heres another one for ye!

My 07 R56 MCS has developed a rattle (sounds exactly like a diesel) when started. The noise comes in at around 2700 rpm and up. I know there is the "death rattle" associated with the R56 due to timing chain tensioners but I dont think this is it. Its quiet when ticking over and only starts rattling from 2700 rpm up (the death rattle problem seems to be on tick over more then when reving). Once the engine gets up to operating temperature there is no noise whatsoever and no loss of power.

I noticed that it seems to rattle a bit when cornering quickly (ish) which led me to think its something like an oil pickup/pressure problem maybe tappets? I checked the oil level and its fine (I only out half a litre in a few weeks back). Its about 2k miles from an oil change and service so I might just try and get that done soon and mention it to the garage but I wouldnt mind having an idea what is causing it (and figuring out if its something I should be more worried about!)

Im also pretty sure this only started happening when the weather got cold and wet over christmas, It was fine before that. If that has any bearing? I will fire it up in the morning and see if I can figure where in the engine the rattle it coming from in the engine.

Any suggestions are more then welcome, and sorry for the long post.

TL;DR: Is my car f*****?

Bigus

Could be a noisey variator on the end of a camshaft, get the oil change done now.

Donnelly117

Cheers, Have it booked in for a service next week so I'll mention it to them and see of they come up with anything...

TBi

Where are you based? I had the death rattle and both local BMW garages at the time didn't have a clue (intentionally clueless IMHO).

If you are near Cork there is a fantastic Indy in Ballincollig. They know everything about mini's and will sort it out. Unlike BMW who'll charge you an arm and a leg but won't do much.

By the way BMW's 'cure' for the death rattle was a longer tensioner. Which staved off any major damage until you were far out of warranty.

Edit: check your oil. R56 will drink oil as the mileage goes up leading to a rattle in the engine. You'll have to get your engine de-coked. My Indy did this for me but BMW will too if you're willing to bend over to pay for it...

Senecio

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Cheers, Have it booked in for a service next week so I'll mention it to them and see of they come up with anything...

It is the death rattle. 100%

Your symptoms are exactly the same as mine. A mate of mine that works for BMW confirmed that the full timing chain, guides etc... were replaced in my car in 2009 under good will by BMW for the original owner. I only bought the car in 2011 and it didn't start doing it for me until that winter. BMW tested the slack, said everything was in spec and sent me on my way. Nothing to be done about it but drive easily until it is warm.

Double check the oil level. For me the rattle on cornering only occurs at low oil level. The dip stick is notoriously difficult to read especially when the engine is warm which is BMWs recommended method. I check mine before start up as ist the only way to actually see the line on the stick.

TBi

If it was my car it would be in the garage tomorrow. Death rattle will cause engine failure and you'll be looking at 5-10k to fix it.

Don't drive unless you have to and get it checked out pronto.

Senecio

TBi wrote: »

If it was my car it would be in the garage tomorrow. Death rattle will cause engine failure and you'll be looking at 5-10k to fix it.

Don't drive unless you have to and get it checked out pronto.

Do you know anything about the R56 death rattle specifically?

Most cars go on to live perfectly normal lives with a little care and attention from owners. Granted, there have been some catostrophic engine failures but they are not common. From my research it's around 1,700 EUR to have the problem rectified by a main dealer and it's likely the rattle will come back again at some point.

Either live with it and look after it. Or replace it with a 2011 version with the N18 engine. I wouldn't be putting any money into it.

Donnelly117

Senecio wrote: »

It is the death rattle. 100%

Your symptoms are exactly the same as mine. A mate of mine that works for BMW confirmed that the full timing chain, guides etc... were replaced in my car in 2009 under good will by BMW for the original owner. I only bought the car in 2011 and it didn't start doing it for me until that winter. BMW tested the slack, said everything was in spec and sent me on my way. Nothing to be done about it but drive easily until it is warm.

Double check the oil level. For me the rattle on cornering only occurs at low oil level. The dip stick is notoriously difficult to read especially when the engine is warm which is BMWs recommended method. I check mine before start up as ist the only way to actually see the line on the stick.

Cheers for the info mate. I will check the oil again when I get home. Your right about the dipstick its a bloody disaster to read. I noticed this morning it only rattle when turning right...with the chain on the right side of the engine could this be something to do with the oil flowing away from the chain side while going around a corner. I topped up the oil only a few weeks ago and haven't done much driving since then. Ill check again though. If it is the death rattle then does that mean a whole new chain(with guides, tensions et...)? I have it book in with a BMW main dealer in Cork...should I be asking them to check the chain slack?

Donnelly117

TBi wrote: »

Where are you based? I had the death rattle and both local BMW garages at the time didn't have a clue (intentionally clueless IMHO).

If you are near Cork there is a fantastic Indy in Ballincollig. They know everything about mini's and will sort it out. Unlike BMW who'll charge you an arm and a leg but won't do much.

By the way BMW's 'cure' for the death rattle was a longer tensioner. Which staved off any major damage until you were far out of warranty.

Edit: check your oil. R56 will drink oil as the mileage goes up leading to a rattle in the engine. You'll have to get your engine de-coked. My Indy did this for me but BMW will too if you're willing to bend over to pay for it...

I am in Cork, working in bishopstown so ballincollig is only over the road. I have heard about a great Mini guy in Cork alright. You don't have any details for him have you? He may be a better prospect then the main dealer I have it booked in with...

Edit: It this O' Learys garage in Ballincollig by any chance?

TBi

Senecio wrote: »

Do you know anything about the R56 death rattle specifically?

Most cars go on to live perfectly normal lives with a little care and attention from owners. Granted, there have been some catostrophic engine failures but they are not common. From my research it's around 1,700 EUR to have the problem rectified by a main dealer and it's likely the rattle will come back again at some point.

Either live with it and look after it. Or replace it with a 2011 version with the N18 engine. I wouldn't be putting any money into it.

$1700? Total robbery, my guy did it for less than half that. You don't just live with it. The rattle is caused by the chain stretching, it will eventually jump or snap.

It hasn't been seen that much since BMW 'fix' it.

As for what i know about it... i have a R56 Cooper S and i'm in the mini club. I know two members who've had the chain jump and other members who've been lucky enough to get it replaced before damage was done.

Personally my chain was so stretched it was close to jumping and was causing the engine to run bad by throwing the timing out.

I think my personal experience speaks more volumes than ... what exactly is your experience on the matter? Apart from google?

Donnelly117 wrote: »

I am in Cork, working in bishopstown so ballincollig is only over the road. I have heard about a great Mini guy in Cork alright. You don't have any details for him have you? He may be a better prospect then the main dealer I have it booked in with...

I'll PM you the details. Give him a call Straight away. He did mine for less than the dealer for new chain and guides.

Senecio

TBi wrote: »

I think my personal experience speaks more volumes than ... what exactly is your experience on the matter? Apart from google?

Did you take the effort to read my first post? particularly that in bold in the quote below.

Senecio wrote: »

Your symptoms are exactly the same as mine. A mate of mine that works for BMW confirmed that the full timing chain, guides etc... were replaced in my car in 2009 under good will by BMW for the original owner. I only bought the car in 2011 and it didn't start doing it for me until that winter. BMW tested the slack, said everything was in spec and sent me on my way. Nothing to be done about it but drive easily until it is warm.

Back to the OP.

I'm not advising anyone to ignore the problem. Get it checked out by the main dealer, I did with my car. If they confirmed that it has stretched outside of tolerance then you have a decision to make. Do you get it fixed or move the car on. My advice still stands, I wouldn't be pouring any money into it if it were me. I know from personal experience that it will stretch again. If its in specification I guess the same decision still applies.

TBi

Senecio wrote: »

Did you take the effort to read my first post? particularly that in bold in the quote below.

Apologies for that, i just didn't understand how an owner, knowing what will happen if it's not taken care of, would not recommend getting it fixed as soon as possible.

Also i personally could never sell a car with the death rattle, unless i told the prospective owner. I couldn't in good conscience sell someone a car i knew was a ticking time bomb.

Senecio

TBi wrote: »

Apologies for that, i just didn't understand how an owner, knowing what will happen if it's not taken care of, would not recommend getting it fixed as soon as possible.

Also i personally could never sell a car with the death rattle, unless i told the prospective owner. I couldn't in good conscience sell someone a car i knew was a ticking time bomb.

All good.

Someone did it to me, but I also couldn't pass on a time bomb. Trade it into a garage maybe but not a private sale.

The only reason why I'm living with it is because it was tested and confirmed to be in spec and I just can't bring myself to spend that sort of money on the car. If you have contacts in the Dublin area through the mini club that could recommend a good independent I'd appreciate it. I've also considered doing it myself as I could justify the parts at ~€350 and I have the tools and would be pretty confident I could do it with quality instructions.

This is probably the best video describing the issue and remedy for it that I have found on the web.

Link to Website

Can I ask how long ago you had yours done and is there definitely no sign of a return of the rattle?

TBi

About 40k km ago or 2 years ago. I'm on 130k now and it was done around 90k. Mine didn't sound that bad but my chain had stretched further than the one from the engine that went bang. Good old longer tensioner kept it on

Senecio

TBi wrote: »

About 40k km ago or 2 years ago. I'm on 130k now and it was done around 90k. Mine didn't sound that bad but my chain had stretched further than the one from the engine that went bang. Good old longer tensioner kept it on

I've already replaced the tensioner. It quietened things down for about a month before it came back again.

No contacts up this way?

TBi

I'll ask tomorrow.

What tensioner did you get? Was it the newest model? When did you get it installed?

Senecio

TBi wrote: »

I'll ask tomorrow.

What tensioner did you get? Was it the newest model? When did you get it installed?

Cheers

Definitely the newest model of the tensioner. I don't remember the part number but it is the latest. I did the tensioner back in January 2013 which was when it started happening first for me. I bought the car in March 2012 but it was quiet at first.

I'd have a go at it myself if it wasn't for the trouble keeping the camshafts locked in place. There is a place that sells a tool specifically for it but they want 200 USD for it.

TBi

The place in cork has all the kit including a timing kit to make sure the car is running perfectly after it. The car is still running better now than it was when i bought it.

If i remember correctly the tensioner on mine was done on goodwill in 2010 (after much arguing with stupid Keary's BMW) and chain was done in 2012.