Is this a crazy price for a small kitchen extension?

bangra bangra

Hi, our house is 15 years old, we've been thinking of adding a small extension and were quoted €30,000 by the original builder. Honestly I thought we would get it done for half that as it's not exactly complicated. This was the plan and I'm just hoping someone could give their opinion before I go looking for another builder, thanks a mil:

The area I'm talking about to be built around a u-shape gap, kind of courtyard area, so there's a u shape gap.....on the u-shape there's a glass wall on the 1st part of the 'u', at the bottom of the 'u' there's 2 windows side by side and on the right hand part of the 'u' there's a patio door, we're hoping to put a patio door on the top of the 'u' to close it up.....hope this makes sense....
1. The area would be roughly 14ft by 14ft
2. Remove 2 small side by side windows and remove 1 block height across above said windows and put in rsj (??) to leave a hole in the wall to be a "pass through"
3. Remove patio door and reuse on outside wall of extension to close in the top of the 'u'
4. The outside concrete is 2/3 inches lower than the inside kitchen so the new floor would have to be raised slightly to be level with inside
4. Redirect drain from dishwasher to drain further away in patio
5. Slate roof, vaulted ceiling
6. Add 2 wall plugs, 1 light on new ceiling, no heating required as there's already plenty of radiators in kitchen
I'd be really grateful if anyone with a bit of knowledge in the area could give me some info. Thanks

BryanF

bangra bangra wrote: »

Hi, our house is 15 years old, we've been thinking of adding a small extension and were quoted €30,000 by the original builder. Honestly I thought we would get it done for half that as it's not exactly complicated. This was the plan and I'm just hoping someone could give their opinion before I go looking for another builder, thanks a mil:

The area I'm talking about to be built around a u-shape gap, kind of courtyard area, so there's a u shape gap.....on the u-shape there's a glass wall on the 1st part of the 'u', at the bottom of the 'u' there's 2 windows side by side and on the right hand part of the 'u' there's a patio door, we're hoping to put a patio door on the top of the 'u' to close it up.....hope this makes sense....
1. The area would be roughly 14ft by 14ft
2. Remove 2 small side by side windows and remove 1 block height across above said windows and put in rsj (??) to leave a hole in the wall to be a "pass through"
3. Remove patio door and reuse on outside wall of extension to close in the top of the 'u'
4. The outside concrete is 2/3 inches lower than the inside kitchen so the new floor would have to be raised slightly to be level with inside
4. Redirect drain from dishwasher to drain further away in patio
5. Slate roof, vaulted ceiling
6. Add 2 wall plugs, 1 light on new ceiling, no heating required as there's already plenty of radiators in kitchen
I'd be really grateful if anyone with a bit of knowledge in the area could give me some info. Thanks

Would need a drawing? to comment.
Is vat, insurances, preliminaries, removal of existing etc included?
What did your arch/eng say about the price?
How many prices did you get?

bangra bangra

Hi BryanF, thanks very much for replying... yes VAT is included in that price. We didn't go to an architect this time on the advise of the builder as he said it was a straight forward job, also he said, which is probably true, that the architect would charge a few thousand in fees which we were trying to avoid. The price does include the removal of 2 fairly small windows and the patio door, both on different walls. I do remember the builder saying the rsj or whatever support goes over the holes for the windows would be about 7ft long and they're fairly pricey. We didn't get prices from any other builders either.
I know we must sound very unprofessional indeed but we didn't have any plan drawn up either other than my own sketch for the builder. It's just that I can't see where all the money is going if you know what I mean? I know the labour costs would be high enough but I would expect to see the job being done in 2 weeks tops so it sounds very steep.
We only got the one price as we've always had great trust in the builder, he's done bits and pieces for us since he built the original house for us and never let us down, has always been very straight with us but I can't help thinking with the shortage of building work he might be seeing dollar signs!

BryanF

bangra bangra wrote: »

• yes VAT is included in that price.
• We didn't go to an architect this time on the advise of the builder
• as he said it was a straight forward job, also
• he said, which is probably true, that the architect would charge a few thousand in fees which we were trying to avoid.
• I do remember the builder saying the rsj or whatever support goes over the holes for the windows would be about 7ft long and they're fairly pricey. We didn't get prices from any other builders either.
• I know we must sound very unprofessional indeed
• but we didn't have any plan drawn up either other than my own sketch for the builder.

1. It's just that I can't see where all the money is going if you know what I mean?
2. as we've always had great trust in the builder, he's done bits and pieces for us since he built the original house for us and never let us down, has always been very straight with us but I can't help thinking with the shortage of building work he might be seeing dollar signs

• I know the labour costs would be high enough but I would expect to see the job being done in 2 weeks tops so it sounds very steep.
• We only got the one price

where's 4sticks ?? (4sticks be gentle now!)
i would take issue with practically every line in the above

1. the money you spend on your architect is going to ensure you get a quality product, to building regs and to answer questions & advise (& hold your hand, which would seem to be the case from the inconsistencies and assumptions made above, sorry if that sounds harsh)
2. if you trust the builder go ahead with the price - if not get a drawing and outline spec prepared and go to at least 3 builders. I would expect the job to take 2/3months.

Bigus

A quantity surveyor would be worth investing a small fee on, sounds crazy price indeed.

4Sticks

bangra bangra wrote: »

I'd be really grateful if anyone with a bit of knowledge in the area could give me some info. Thanks

Again I ask - why would or should professionals take part in this forum by offering free advice to persons online to those who at the same time seek to avoid paying for it in real life ?

jonniebgood1

You seem to have very little to base the price on OP. That makes it hard for you to get a comparison. You need to have some kind of recorded (i.e. drawing and scope of works) schedule of what is proposed. It is up to you to provide this either yourself or by using a professional. If you choose to deal with a trusted builder then that is also a way of getting through the process but the fact that you are querying on this forum suggests that you do not trust your builder. If you insist on the builder you are dealing with you could go back to them and ask them how you might reduce cost towards the figure you had in mind. It is difficult with the information you have posted for anyone to definitively say that your figure quoted is either fair or unfair.

jonniebgood1

Also you expect the work to take 2 weeks??? :eek:
Have you thought of a day by day schedule that would see your proposal done in this time?

bangra bangra

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Also you expect the work to take 2 weeks??? :eek:
Have you thought of a day by day schedule that would see your proposal done in this time?

Haha, I know it does sound weird when I read back what I said in the original but seriously our garden shed is bigger than what I propose to build and didn't cost that much and it was up in a few days!! It's a simple structure 14ft x 14ft (at most)with no heating!! We built a much much larger extension in the middle of the "Celtic tiger" and it cost 30,000!
Anyway I can tell from the replies ye all think I'm mad as a bag of cats so I'm going to take my telling off, go back to the drawing board and get another builder to price it.

ONE FINAL POINT, from a previous post about professional fees.....by asking someone's opinion online I wasn't trying to take away someone's livelihood, I totally support that you should pay a professional architect/qs or otherwise and would have no problem doing so if I felt the job required it, I have no hesitation in saying if money were no object I would hand over everything to an architect or someone and have it done for me, it's without question that the results you get with someone like this are SUPERIOR to what you get without them, I know I've had experience with an architect before and it was the best money we ever spent.....HOWEVERRR I'm trying to get the job done for what I can afford now, and I was only asking for an opinion, isn't that what boards is for? I've paid the same architect several thousands of pounds and euros over the years and it's such a small job I'm only doing what everyone else is doing in ireland at the moment and save a bit of cash!

2013LEO

For info, you should check out the Home Renovation Incentive (HRI) on Revenue's website (www.revenue.ie), tax incentives are available for renovations/extensions up to a limit with an approved builder since last October.

bangra bangra

4Sticks wrote: »

Again I ask - why would or should professionals take part in this forum by offering free advice to persons online to those who at the same time seek to avoid paying for it in real life ?

Just for the record I was only asking for an opinion, I didn't specifically ask for an opinion from a professional, just maybe someone who had built something of a similar size in their own house, also it's quite normal to ask someone for e.g. holiday advise without being told to go and pay for the services of a travel agent is it not? Just an opinion that's all I wanted, nothing set in stone, didn't mean to offend anyone...

archtech

bangra bangra wrote: »

it's such a small job I'm only doing what everyone else is doing in ireland at the moment and save a bit of cash!

The penny wise pound foolish approach then, which always come back to bite at some stage in the future.

If you want to see if you are getting value for money, engage a professional to prepare a set of tender/construction drawings and get 3/4 builders to price it.

BryanF

bangra bangra wrote: »

didn't mean to offend anyone...

no one offended:) your very welcome to the forum:)

there's been a certain attitude elsewhere recently, that's getting aired here due this being an example of where the average home-owner might save a few quid by not hiring a professional, only to overpay for bricks & mortar. And the 'free advise' thing in the C&P forum is grinding one particular poster

'This forum is intended for discussing and posting all pricing and costings associated with the building industry particularly the private house sector. We would hope that fellow users will find this forum a place to both discuss prices for products and services and also a place where they can share with others the bargains they have found and also exchange recommendations, tips and advice when seeking prices for various products'

martinn123

Bhangra bangra wrote:

Hi, our house is 15 years old, we've been thinking of adding a small extension and were quoted €30,000 by the original builder. Honestly I thought we would get it done for half that as it's not exactly complicated. This was the plan and I'm just hoping someone could give their opinion before I go looking for another builder, thanks a mil:

A reasonable post for information, on an open forum,

In my view maybe a bit over priced, But, especially as you mention the Steel support over the new opening, that needs a bit more info, maybe a Structural Engineer input.

With regard to Architectural Advice, you appear to have had dealings with this builder over some years, previous works, did he build the house, ?

A 14 X 14 extension " as you describe " I can see why you trusted his opinion initially.

With the ongoing comments as to why " professionals" should provide advice here free, well they do not have to.in fact they cannot use the site to solicit business.

Don't be offended OP, it's just a C&P Forum issue

Get another quote or two, and post the results here.

Gumbo

bangra bangra wrote: »

Hi, our house is 15 years old, we've been thinking of adding a small extension and were quoted €30,000 by the original builder. Honestly I thought we would get it done for half that as it's not exactly complicated. This was the plan and I'm just hoping someone could give their opinion before I go looking for another builder, thanks a mil:

The area I'm talking about to be built around a u-shape gap, kind of courtyard area, so there's a u shape gap.....on the u-shape there's a glass wall on the 1st part of the 'u', at the bottom of the 'u' there's 2 windows side by side and on the right hand part of the 'u' there's a patio door, we're hoping to put a patio door on the top of the 'u' to close it up.....hope this makes sense....
1. The area would be roughly 14ft by 14ft
2. Remove 2 small side by side windows and remove 1 block height across above said windows and put in rsj (??) to leave a hole in the wall to be a "pass through"
3. Remove patio door and reuse on outside wall of extension to close in the top of the 'u'
4. The outside concrete is 2/3 inches lower than the inside kitchen so the new floor would have to be raised slightly to be level with inside
4. Redirect drain from dishwasher to drain further away in patio
5. Slate roof, vaulted ceiling
6. Add 2 wall plugs, 1 light on new ceiling, no heating required as there's already plenty of radiators in kitchen
I'd be really grateful if anyone with a bit of knowledge in the area could give me some info. Thanks

14x14, i would expect a quote in and around the 20k-22k mark depending on level of finish obviously.
If you engaged an Arch technician to draw up a basic plan, elevation and section, with details should cost no more than approx 1k-1.5k max, a QS for this type of job shouldnt be more than 1k-1.5k max either, and i am almost certain, by engaging both together, you will save 5-6k off your original quote.

sydthebeat

the ONLY way you can be sure you are getting value for money is to get proper drawings and specifications, and a basic bill of quantities done up ... this should not cost you more than €1000.
remember proper design can actually 'design out' some of those big costs a builder will throw in at no thought.

you then get at least 3 quotes to compare.

If at the end you get a properly designed, properly specified build for €29,000 .... wouldnt your €1000 be money very well spent?

fealeranger

The first thing you have to do is be sure you want to build the extension no matter what. If you do get professionals involved for €1000-€1500 and they tell you it is going to cost you €35,000-€40,000 will you still go ahead with the project? This is a complete waste of money if you decide not to go ahead after the initial consultation. I am all for professional design and a job done properly but don't be under the illusion that this will make a project cheaper. Good design and building practice comes at a cost.

sydthebeat

fealeranger wrote: »

The first thing you have to do is be sure you want to build the extension no matter what. If you do get professionals involved for €1000-€1500 and they tell you it is going to cost you €35,000-€40,000 will you still go ahead with the project? This is a complete waste of money if you decide not to go ahead after the initial consultation. I am all for professional design and a job done properly but don't be under the illusion that this will make a project cheaper. Good design and building practice comes at a cost.

Good design and building practise should be the baseline demand for your money, it shouldn't command a premium.

If you are not getting either you are wasting your valuable earnings.

bryaj

So leave out the professionals?- possibly build in hollow block with insulated plasterboard mushroom fixed internally, good quality windows poorly fitted (no airtightness) and orientated northwards, lean -to roof at too low a pitch, cold bridges and air leakage everywhere, steps at entrances where there should be level access etc etc in general the best of materials put together badly in most due to lack of knowledge or because that is what is done next door and has gone on before.

Get it designed, specified and signed off in accordance with building regulations and planning - perhaps the builder has the means to do so - design & build