Lough Leane killarney

dazza161989

I fish it fairly often each summer for trout, but has anyone a full list of what fish species it contains?

I know it holds a run of salmon, sea trout , brown trout, artic char etc , but what about course fish species??

Would be handy to know for the winter months before trout season.

Thanks

Dazza161989

popsy09

dazza161989 wrote: »

I fish it fairly often each summer for trout, but has anyone a full list of what fish species it contains?

I know it holds a run of salmon, sea trout , brown trout, artic char etc , but what about course fish species??

Would be handy to know for the winter months before trout season.

Thanks

Dazza161989

I know it has perch as I was trolling with a rapala few years back where the laune comes out and got one about 2 or 2.5 lb

I'm sure there is ferox trout in there too

dazza161989

popsy09 wrote: »

I know it has perch as I was trolling with a rapala few years back where the laune comes out and got one about 2 or 2.5 lb

I'm sure there is ferox trout in there too

Yes my apologies i forgot about ferox. That was a nice perch i wonder if there is a big number of them there.?

popsy09

dazza161989 wrote: »

Yes my apologies i forgot about ferox. That was a nice perch i wonder if there is a big number of them there.?

i know people who fish maggots for trout and have to move spot they get so much perch so i would say there is a good stock of them

most of my fishing used be up by the europa hotel

dazza161989

popsy09 wrote: »

i know people who fish maggots for trout and have to move spot they get so much perch so i would say there is a good stock of them

most of my fishing used be up by the europa hotel

I know the spot. I might chance a bit of waggler fishing with maggots maybe near ross castle next winter then.

Zzippy

Killarney shad: http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/fish-species/killarney-shad.html
Rudd, Tench as well...

Check out the IFI Water Framework Directive site at www.wfdfish.ie

LAKE: Lough Leane
LAKE CODE: SW_22_185
PROJECT: Water Framework Directive
SURVEY YEAR: 2008
DRAFT FISH ECOLOGICAL STATUS:
SPECIES RICHNESS: 9
SPECIES PRESENT: Brown trout; Brown trout (ferox); European eel; Flounder; Killarney shad; Perch; Rudd; Salmon; Tench

dazza161989

Zzippy wrote: »

Killarney shad: http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/fish-species/killarney-shad.html
Rudd, Tench as well...

Check out the IFI Water Framework Directive site at www.wfdfish.ie

Im shocked about tench, anyone here ever had one on Leane????

vermin99

Get a run of shad aswell I think

vermin99

Get a run of shad aswell I think

bencarvosso

tench been in there for hundreds of years

popsy09

Did anyone ever hear of a ferox being caught ? Never heard of anyone one fishing for them in Killarney but was always told they are in the lake

dazza161989

popsy09 wrote: »

Did anyone ever hear of a ferox being caught ? Never heard of anyone one fishing for them in Killarney but was always told they are in the lake

ya ive heard of one being caught there, i think the old bloke who owns the tackle shop in town caught one a good few years back.

stylie

I have caught them regular enough as well as my fishing buddies. Havent broke the 10lb barrier though which is a pity. Biggest weighed was 9lb and the biggest guestimated and lost at the net was a mid double.
Funny thing is they do not fight, reel in a 6lber like a half pounder. Yet any of the Ferox I get up the country would nearly pull ya in..

popsy09

stylie wrote: »

I have caught them regular enough as well as my fishing buddies. Havent broke the 10lb barrier though which is a pity. Biggest weighed was 9lb and the biggest guestimated and lost at the net was a mid double.
Funny thing is they do not fight, reel in a 6lber like a half pounder. Yet any of the Ferox I get up the country would nearly pull ya in..

What methods do you use ? I would be interested in giving it a go

stylie

Nothing fancy, Killarney trout are less fussy than their limestone brethren. Shad Raps, trout raps etc divers that go from 6ft to 30ft are all we bother with now. The deeper divers need stouter rods but anything in the 15ft range will be useable with a 40grm rod. Troll the deeps in calm water and put the hrs in.
Its a no brainer, Corrib takes a lot more effort between right bait, right depth, right spot but Leane ferox are more easily fooled. Leane probably has a more true "Ferox" strain with the deep water Shad that inhabit it. Corrib "Ferox" are more over grown trout that have it easy with the amount of food available to them.
Im not kidding about the fight, like reeling in weed and then maybe a kick or two at the surface. Some good looking fish though, neat proportions.

dazza161989

I THINK the largest recorded catch was a ferox of around 15ish in Leane.

Zzippy

stylie wrote: »

Nothing fancy, Killarney trout are less fussy than their limestone brethren. Shad Raps, trout raps etc divers that go from 6ft to 30ft are all we bother with now. The deeper divers need stouter rods but anything in the 15ft range will be useable with a 40grm rod. Troll the deeps in calm water and put the hrs in.
Its a no brainer, Corrib takes a lot more effort between right bait, right depth, right spot but Leane ferox are more easily fooled. Leane probably has a more true "Ferox" strain with the deep water Shad that inhabit it. Corrib "Ferox" are more over grown trout that have it easy with the amount of food available to them.
Im not kidding about the fight, like reeling in weed and then maybe a kick or two at the surface. Some good looking fish though, neat proportions.

I haven't seen any DNA studies from Leane, but I've seen them from Corrib, and nothing could be further from the truth. Corrib ferox are very very different from the brown trout, and are definitely not "over grown trout". The genetic studies actually reveal that the ferox recolonised the lake after the Ice Age before the brown trout did, and have spawned separately from the brown trout since then - their DNA composition is so different that they really should be considered a separate species. They only spawn in one river, similar to the ferox in Melvin, which helps maintain spawning discreteness from the main population of trout.
If anything, your description of Leane ferox would suggest that they are not a "true" ferox, but closer to the brown trout. If you saw a Corrib ferox you wouldn't describe it as having neat proportions - typically a disproportionately large head with large mouth, much larger than a brown trout.

dazza161989

Zzippy wrote: »

I haven't seen any DNA studies from Leane, but I've seen them from Corrib, and nothing could be further from the truth. Corrib ferox are very very different from the brown trout, and are definitely not "over grown trout". The genetic studies actually reveal that the ferox recolonised the lake after the Ice Age before the brown trout did, and have spawned separately from the brown trout since then - their DNA composition is so different that they really should be considered a separate species. They only spawn in one river, similar to the ferox in Melvin, which helps maintain spawning discreteness from the main population of trout.
If anything, your description of Leane ferox would suggest that they are not a "true" ferox, but closer to the brown trout. If you saw a Corrib ferox you wouldn't describe it as having neat proportions - typically a disproportionately large head with large mouth, much larger than a brown trout.

I would have to agree, any literature i have studied on the subject seemed to say pretty much what zzippy has quoted.

stylie

How different, can you link to the evidence.
How different are Brown trout to Ferox and is it a greater difference than Browns to Rainbows ?
How different is it compared to a Brown from Corrib and a Brown from Mask ?
Salmon can be genetically different from river to river but we don't call them different species or sub species.

Ron Greer that literally wrote the book on Ferox and Ferox85 state Ferox as deep water char feeding trout. Corrib fish are shallow water roach feeders.
Killarney have Char and Shad and with the exception of one 6lb fish I caught in 12-15ft of water have all come from water averaging over 100ft.
I think I had one 9lb'er to the boat last year in 25ft while through the years the fish have been in the 10ft-20ft range.
Only early season trout in Corrib have disproportionated heads, and they are out of condition fish caught before May, kelts with large heads and slack bellies.
Look at the Polish guides fish from Corrib, these guys catch more big trout than anyone on the lake and its only their March and April fish that have big heads.

Zzippy

stylie wrote: »

How different, can you link to the evidence.
How different are Brown trout to Ferox and is it a greater difference than Browns to Rainbows ?
How different is it compared to a Brown from Corrib and a Brown from Mask ?
Salmon can be genetically different from river to river but we don't call them different species or sub species.

Ron Greer that literally wrote the book on Ferox and Ferox85 state Ferox as deep water char feeding trout. Corrib fish are shallow water roach feeders.
Killarney have Char and Shad and with the exception of one 6lb fish I caught in 12-15ft of water have all come from water averaging over 100ft.
I think I had one 9lb'er to the boat last year in 25ft while through the years the fish have been in the 10ft-20ft range.
Only early season trout in Corrib have disproportionated heads, and they are out of condition fish caught before May, kelts with large heads and slack bellies.
Look at the Polish guides fish from Corrib, these guys catch more big trout than anyone on the lake and its only their March and April fish that have big heads.

I don't have a link to the evidence sorry, I don't have access to a scientific library or journals anymore, but I've discussed this over pints with Professor Andy Ferguson from Queen's, who is the acknowledged expert on trout genetics, and he is adamant that ferox should be recognised as a different species bacause their DNA, life history and appearance is so different. If you think you know better I look forward to your peer-reviewed publication contradicting his work.
Not sure why you mention rainbow trout, as they are a different genus altogether and are more closely related to Pacific salmon than brown trout (rainbow trout is Oncorhyncus mykiss, Oncorhyncus being the genus of the various Pacific salmon species, while brown trout are Salmo trutta, Salmo being the genus of brown trout and Atlantic salmon).
I'm not sure how many Corrib ferox you've caught, but they are almost always caught in deep water. If you troll with a sounder in 25-30 metres of water you will see shoals of roach just off the bottom in that depth. Typically that's where the ferox are caught, except in late summer when they start to move closer to shore in preparation for spawning. To call them shallow feeders is not true. Roach have only been in Corrib since the 1980s, previous to that the ferox were charr feeders, but the charr are now extinct in Corrib and the roach have taken over their ecological niche in deep water.

stylie

Well I dont have access to my peer reviewed scientific journals either so neither of us can back up what we are saying, though I dont remember directly contradicting Prof Andy. In fact I used their own criteria of feeding habits to say the Killarney fish display more Ferox characteristic than their Corrib counterparts. I have not caught a Corrib fish in 15yrs of fishing it that could be called a Ferox neither have I seen a picture of one and there are a lot of big Corrib trout pics online.
Prof Andy and Dr Greer readily admit that in some lakes brown trout become more piscivorous. If ever there was a lake in Ireland with an over abundance of small fish its Corrib, giving Browns the opportunity to pile the pounds on.
Ferox characteristics are large head, deep water living, char feeding, long lived and dark to olive hue colourations. Show me Corrib fish that match those descriptions, is there evidence of Corrib trout living to 15yrs+ like the Scottish Ferox do ?
Have you seen pictures of a Corrib fish that looked like a Ferox and was genetically proven so, does any evidence like that exist ?
Do you think every double in Corrib is a Ferox ?

Zzippy

stylie wrote: »

Well I dont have access to my peer reviewed scientific journals either so neither of us can back up what we are saying, though I dont remember directly contradicting Prof Andy. In fact I used their own criteria of feeding habits to say the Killarney fish display more Ferox characteristic than their Corrib counterparts. I have not caught a Corrib fish in 15yrs of fishing it that could be called a Ferox neither have I seen a picture of one and there are a lot of big Corrib trout pics online.
Prof Andy and Dr Greer readily admit that in some lakes brown trout become more piscivorous. If ever there was a lake in Ireland with an over abundance of small fish its Corrib, giving Browns the opportunity to pile the pounds on.
Ferox characteristics are large head, deep water living, char feeding, long lived and dark to olive hue colourations. Show me Corrib fish that match those descriptions, is there evidence of Corrib trout living to 15yrs+ like the Scottish Ferox do ?

Have you never heard of natural variation? Are all brown trout golden-flanked with red spots? Do you honestly think every ferox has to be a dark olive hue, and if they aren't feeding on charr they can't be a ferox? I've also been out with the Polish guides you mention quite a few times, and we've caught several ferox with them - all in very deep water.

Scale reading show the larger ferox on Corrib tend to be 12-15 years old.

stylie wrote: »

Have you seen pictures of a Corrib fish that looked like a Ferox and was genetically proven so, does any evidence like that exist ?

Yes I have, I've actually handled and photographed them, and yes they were, the DNA was unequivocal.

stylie wrote: »

Do you think every double in Corrib is a Ferox ?

No, and I never said that.

Look, I have observed and photographed Corrib and Mask ferox surveys where over 60 ferox trout were caught, tagged with radio tags, scale samples and DNA samples taken, and then tracked over the following 3 years. I didn't actually analyse the samples myself, but I've spoken to the scientists involved. I've also met Andy Ferguson quite a few times, and assisted with sampling of adult and juvenile trout for his team in Melvin. I know what they told me. I know what I've read when I did have access to scientific papers. The ferox from Corrib and Mask are much closer genetically to the ferox from Melvin than they are to brown trout from their own lakes.
Go do your own research if you don't believe me.

stylie

You said the Leane fish are not 'true' Ferox based on my description of neat proportions, though having neat proportions is the only non Ferox thing you could associate with them. Killarney being deeper than Corrib, more acidic, having a small average size of trout (6ox-8oz barely) and having a deep water population of prey fish I would say Killarney's lakes and these fish we are catching tick every single box it comes when it comes to Ferox.
A lot of the fish from Ferox85 are neatly proportioned so that's not a reason to knock the Killarney fish. So are Killarney's fish Brown trout displaying Ferox characteristics ?

Every double that gets pulled out of Corrib gets called a Ferox, which is bull, the lake is scary rich when it comes to food. I don't think I caught any Ferox in Corrib in 15yrs of trying but I believe all the trout I caught from Killarney were Ferox. And no I wasn't blanking all those times in Corrib I was just catching big Browns.

I gave the list of Ferox traits to show that Corrib fish might only share the long levity. I would say the colourations of the Corrib are are result of inhabiting sunlit waters and not lurking in the deeps like the Scottish fish do. You said you have scale readings, from where ? why are we not seeing this evidence as well as the DNA anywhere ?
Was Ceri Jones fish scale sampled or DNA tested surely a dead lake record like that had a team of biologist all over it ?


The 60 fish caught, were they the only fish in the haul and they all shared DNA traits with Melvin fish or were there more fish in the haul with similar size, looks etc but with DNA traits like the Brown trout in the lake and so just labelled as big Browns.

I asked for evidence from the research, I was not contradicting it. Yeck why would I be so adamant the Killarney fish are Ferox if I didn't believe Ferox trout was a thing.
But we are being told by a few that they are a new species yet the wider scientific community does not seem to be accepting it. Actually I probably do have to contradict him, I think Browns and Ferox could interbred and produce fertile off spring so lets split the difference and call Ferox a sub species.
But telling me to go out and complete my own peer reviewed research is a bit snotty when I was only asking for evidence of yours/theirs.