Levafas Diamond

jmurf100

Dosed all the cattle there on thursday with the recommended dose of levafas diamond for rumen fluke. They are scuttering everywhere since but not off food (was expecting they would). I have read here on boards that they should be dosed again in 3 days. Do they need this second dose and if so is it the same amount again?

Farrell

jmurf100 wrote: »

Dosed all the cattle there on thursday with the recommended dose of levafas diamond for rumen fluke. They are scuttering everywhere since but not off food (was expecting they would). I have read here on boards that they should be dosed again in 3 days. Do they need this second dose and if so is it the same amount again?

I only did the once, don't see any draw-back. Didn't realize about the second dose

J.O. Farmer

3 days sounds very quick I would check that out before I do it. If you are dosing again it will be the same rate. Personally I would have thought 3 weeks would be plenty soon and probably closer to twice that.
Does it give any recommendations on the box or bottle. If you have to dose in 3 days pharma companies won't be slow about pointing it out as more dosing=more sales.

epfff

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

3 days sounds very quick I would check that out before I do it. If you are dosing again it will be the same rate. Personally I would have thought 3 weeks would be plenty soon and probably closer to twice that.
Does it give any recommendations on the box or bottle. If you have to dose in 3 days pharma companies won't be slow about pointing it out as more dosing=more sales.

I only ever do it once

Are you thinking of zanil

Bodacious

jmurf100 wrote: »

Dosed all the cattle there on thursday with the recommended dose of levafas diamond for rumen fluke. They are scuttering everywhere since but not off food (was expecting they would). I have read here on boards that they should be dosed again in 3 days. Do they need this second dose and if so is it the same amount again?

I wouldn't dose again ..they be fine,, I dosed heifers before with it and gave them a little bit more than the 25ml per 100kg and it ran the guts out of them and they wouldn't eat but they were fine after it


good dose but hard on cattle and never overdose thinking you are doing a good thing

Deepsouthwest

Bodacious wrote: »

I wouldn't dose again ..they be fine,, I dosed heifers before with it and gave them a little bit more than the 25ml per 100kg and it ran the guts out of them and they wouldn't eat but they were fine after it


good dose but hard on cattle and never overdose thinking you are doing a good thing

The fact that they're scuttery after the last dose is supposedly a sign that they needed it. I definitely wouldn't go again after 3 days, sounds v severe. Wait 2/3 wks, then do a dung sample and you'll know for sure what they will need, if anything

rlaois

I do the same, dose - then take a few dung samples after 3 weeks. Doing it this way a few years and works fine.

I definitely wouldn't go twice in such a short space of time with levafas.

mikeoh

Bullocks I killed had rumen fluke last year i did remaining batch once with LD and they killed out clear ..........vet warned me to give less than the recommended dose as its very severe and only give it the once

jmurf100

Ya I think I'll leave them and see how they go, thanks for all the replies! It must have been the Zanil that needs 2 doses?

TUBBY

I find it good but severe too. As far as scoury after goes, I don't think that cause they had a burden. It is more a reaction to the active.

Three days way too fast to dose again with a full dose. They would not have the full first dose gone out of the system by then so you are effectively overdosing.

Would only do once myself and keep eye for ill thrift in any.

biddy2013

I read the leaflet online. Didn't see any mention of redosing at 3 days on it

greysides

Two extracts from an article in the Australian Veterinary Journal:

When a combination product of oxyclozanide and levamisole was used, oxyclozanide at 18.7 mg/kg reduced parasite numbers in the small intestine, abomasum and rumen-reticulum by 61 to 96.1%, 50.0 to 92.6% and 56.5 to 98.1%, respectively. When 2 doses were given 3 days apart, oxyclozanide was 99.9%, 100% and 100% effective, respectively, in the above organs, and produced improvement in clinically affected calves.

Further tests based on reduction of faecal egg counts, 10 to 14 days after treatment were conducted with oxyclozanide against mature paramphistomes in 207 cattle. Oxyclozanide as a single dose or 2 doses 3 days apart at 12.8 to 18.7 mg/kg was 93.6 to 97.5% effective in reducing egg counts.


Note the basis of the percentages. The first tests were based on treatment and slaughter, the second on faecal analysis.

J.O. Farmer

greysides wrote: »

Two extracts from an article in the Australian Veterinary Journal:

When a combination product of oxyclozanide and levamisole was used, oxyclozanide at 18.7 mg/kg reduced pparasite numbers in the small intestine, abomasum and rumen-reticulum by 61 to 96.1%, 50.0 to 92.6% and 56.5 to 98.1%, respectively. When 2 doses were given 3 days apart, oxyclozanide was 99.9%, 100% and 100% effective, respectively, in the above organs, and produced improvement in clinically affected calves.

Further tests based on reduction of faecal egg counts, 10 to 14 days after treatment were conducted with oxyclozanide against mature paramphistomes in 207 cattle. Oxyclozanide as a single dose or 2 doses 3 days apart at 12.8 to 18.7 mg/kg was 93.6 to 97.5% effective in reducing egg counts.


Note the basis of the percentages. The first tests were based on treatment and slaughter, the second on faecal analysis.

Based on the first set of results it would appear to me that the sensitivity of the parasites present seemed to vary hugely. I can see why a second dose might be recommended at the lower end but I think where over 90% kill was achieved it is difficult to justify. The problem I see is determining the level of sensitivity.

In the second study it appears at least 2 concentrations were used and the reduction in FEC was similar but they also appear to have used 1 or 2 doses. Was there any notable difference in the dosing regimes although again with over 90% reduction it seems difficult to justify the second dose.
Personally based on the data presented here I would probably dose once first and then if I felt that it wasn't working on my farm I would perhaps try dosing 3 days apart. However the concern I would have is the requirement for 2 doses may indicate a developing resistance problem which may get worse.
That's my thoughts on it what do others think. Greysides you found the data what's your thoughts on it. I'm sure you have some.

greysides

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Based on the first set of results it would appear to me that the sensitivity of the parasites present seemed to vary hugely......The problem I see is determining the level of sensitivity.

The 'sensitivity' is just the natural variation inherent in a biological system, hence the reason that a lot of statistics and statistical terms are used in reports.

In the second study it appears at least 2 concentrations were used and the reduction in FEC was similar but they also appear to have used 1 or 2 doses. Was there any notable difference in the dosing regimes although again with over 90% reduction it seems difficult to justify the second dose.

In France where this parasite is a normal pathogen.....the French use Zanil at a double dose (i.e 20 mg/Kg instead of 10 mg/Kg) when bringing the cows in Dec and a clean-up dose 2 months later, or, wait till Feb and then give one double dose.

So the people with more experience in this take it seriously. I think the high dosage is due to the parasite not being readily affected by the chemical.

Personally based on the data presented here I would probably dose once first and then if I felt that it wasn't working on my farm I would perhaps try dosing 3 days apart.

That would seem a reasonable approach buttttt.....

One thing to remember is that the first part of the report dealt with reduction in numbers (calves treated, slaughtered and parasites physically counted) of the parasite in three places (two of which are clinically important). The adults in the rumen are considered as non-pathogenic, it is the immatures in the gut that cause the problems. The second report dealt with a reduction in faecal egg counts.... and, of course, eggs are only laid by mature, non-pathogenic adults.

So the information to go by is the first part.

Immature Rumen-fluke are very polite, they will wait in situ in the gut until places become available in the rumen and then they will move up. This could be the reason that drugs effective against adults give some relief.... the immatures move away from where they are causing problems to the rumen where they don't.

Personally, I wouldn't have thought Rumen Fluke would be a problem this year.............. if ever there was a year when they wouldn't .......

J.O. Farmer

Thank you greysides for your insight. I would have to agree with you on everything. You clearly have good knowledge in relation to biological systems and I can learn a lot from your insight.

greysides wrote: »

The 'sensitivity' is just the natural variation inherent in a biological system, hence the reason that a lot of statistics and statistical terms are used in reports.

I know what you're saying. I haven't read the report and I just thought the huge variation was between samples from different areas and therefore different strains of the same species. However I can see how this variation be within the assay. I have a good bit of experience doing this type of thing with bacteria but less with things like fluke.
The sensitivity I was referring to was on an individual farm for the particular strain found there.


In France where this parasite is a normal pathogen.....the French use Zanil at a double dose (i.e 20 mg/Kg instead of 10 mg/Kg) when bringing the cows in Dec and a clean-up dose 2 months later, or, wait till Feb and then give one double dose.

So the people with more experience in this take it seriously. I think the high dosage is due to the parasite not being readily affected by the chemical.


This would worry me in that if it is already not readily affected then full resistance may follow.


That would seem a reasonable approach buttttt.....

One thing to remember is that the first part of the report dealt with reduction in numbers (calves treated, slaughtered and parasites physically counted) of the parasite in three places (two of which are clinically important). The adults in the rumen are considered as non-pathogenic, it is the immatures in the gut that cause the problems. The second report dealt with a reduction in faecal egg counts.... and, of course, eggs are only laid by mature, non-pathogenic adults.

So the information to go by is the first part.

I agree with you on that.

Immature Rumen-fluke are very polite, they will wait in situ in the gut until places become available in the rumen and then they will move up. This could be the reason that drugs effective against adults give some relief.... the immatures move away from where they are causing problems to the rumen where they don't.

Personally, I wouldn't have thought Rumen Fluke would be a problem this year.............. if ever there was a year when they wouldn't .......

All that makes perfect sense.

greysides

J.O.

Here's a link to the article, if you have assess to a library you may be able to read the full article.

There may be other drugs that are effective against them that we don't have access to in this country.

Albendazole has some activity against immatures but I've never seen it mentioned in Irish literature.


http://journals.usamvcluj.ro/index.php/zootehnie/article/download/2228/2141
Quote:
"Rombendazol, has a medium efficacy, the literature showing the fact that the active
substance has no action on the parasite mature forms."

Bodacious

I dosed my outwintered bulling heifers on Nov 9th with levafas diamond and ivermectin (turbomec) injection for worm, lice ,ticks etc. Im moving them tomorrow and was going to allsure bolus them as wont get my hands on them again for a while.. they coughin slightly and definitely licking themselves.... I was going to go turbomec injection again (as I have it) and either Zanil or levafas diamond again...are they the same active ingredient?

J.O. Farmer

Bodacious wrote: »

I dosed my outwintered bulling heifers on Nov 9th with levafas diamond and ivermectin (turbomec) injection for worm, lice ,ticks etc. Im moving them tomorrow and was going to allsure bolus them as wont get my hands on them again for a while.. they coughin slightly and definitely licking themselves.... I was going to go turbomec injection again (as I have it) and either Zanil or levafas diamond again...are they the same active ingredient?

Yes zanil and levafas have the same active ingredient but levafas has levamisole as well to treat worms.

Bodacious

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Yes zanil and levafas have the same active ingredient but levafas has levamisole as well to treat worms.

Might use up the zanil as ivermectin should get the worms too

restive

Is there any problem with dosing levitas diamond at the same time as normectin.

greysides

Not that I'm aware of...... other than the element of overkill.

patsy_mccabe

Guys, with the benefit of hindsight, just how good is Levafas Diamond? I see most places online are sold out, so it must be used a lot.

I know it's good for Stomach Fluke, just how good is it for Liver Fluke and worms? Last year my dung samples from BEEP showed Stomach Fluke eggs, so my vet recommended waiting till Christmas and dosing then with Levafas Diamond. They all got 2 treatments too for lice with Ectospec.

Problem is I got a bad outbreak of Hoose Pneumonia in 2 young cows and a 2 year old heifer in September this year. I lost the heifer and both cows made it after a lot of expensive treatments. I blamed my change of not using an ivermectin pouron at housing on the cows. It's at least 15 years here since we had a case of pneumonia.

This winter vet said to use Dectomax as Doromectin based so maybe better to give a worm cleanout. I'm wondering then if the Levafas diamond will cover then for the Liverfluke and Stomach fluke. (Stomach Fluke only showed up on the BEEP samples this year.)

greysides

It's hard to see how a dose given the previous winter could have an effect on Hoose 9 months later. There was a lot of Hoose this autumn.

If you've used a lot of ivomec type wormers at grass over the years, it's possible older animals haven't developed immunity to Hoose through lack of exposure and annual boostering.

patsy_mccabe

Ya, I've been thinking that too. Resistance build up to Ivermectin. Vet said the same. All 3 animals were born here and I would have used Noromectin maybe 3 times on them the first year.

It was some shock to find all 3 heavy breathing and lying down together.

Is Levafas Diamond good for Liverfluke and worms? Kinda asking this for va young relative aswell as he has to dose for stomach fluke.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247777#Comment_118247777

afaik Levafas is used for stomach fluke. It's a good dose but be warned it's fairly severe on cows and don't over dose.

ABitofsense

It is very severe on cows! They will destroy the place. I weighed and dosed to be sure they got the right amount. Vet said if they are badly needed for a dose to possibly split the dosing to reduce any risk to the animal.

patsy_mccabe

Well here's the Spec Sheet from HPRA.ie

It does say

"For the treatment and control of both gastro-intestinal and pulmonary nematode infections and adult liver fluke infections in cattle and sheep. Levafas Diamond Fluke and Worm Drench should be used in cases of parasitic gastroenteritis and lungworm caused by those organisms sensitive to treatment with Levamisole hydrochloride. Levamisole is effective against mature and developing immature stages of a wide range of important nematode species and is highly effective against the following:"

Levafas Diamond Fluke and Worm Drench (hpra.ie)

Licence_VPA22664-024-001_15012020105014.pdf (hpra.ie)

Lime Tree Farm

we have been dosing Tramazole (levamisole) and think they too have become resistant. Lots of yearling Autumn coughing this year_ Gave them Ivomec Super inj - the change of product helped stop the cough.

orm0nd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118251078#Comment_118251078

Tramazole is Albendazole base

Vet was telling me hoose is a huge problem this year and showing long after it's expected cut off date

We had to dose the last housed weanlings here as a good few were showing symptoms and 2 had a touch of a draw. Used dectamox as we had it to hand and wanted to break the white dose cycle.

Hopefully we'll get away with a fluke dose and cover for lice in a few weeks.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247777#Comment_118247777

Strangely did same here & for neighbour, we used Albex in early August, but neighbour in late August. No issue here but Neighbour had a bad time with lungworm, Had to dose his stock with Ivomec super before housing & curafluke after

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250855#Comment_118250855

Didn't know it did liver fluke too, that's handy to know

hopeso

Is there a good time of year to hit rumen fluke? For instance, I dose the cows here for liver fluke once a year. It's always done around two months after housing. Would a similar approach work for rumen fluke?

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253820#Comment_118253820

Yes. However, routine dosing for RF is not recommended.

https://animalhealthireland.ie/resources/?q=&resource_type%5B%5D=documents

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118252878#Comment_118252878

But only adult fluke so you have to wait 12 weeks in the shed.

Base price

A couple of years ago @greysides posted a brilliant screenshot of the different types of wormers - white, yellow (oral) and clear (injectable/pouron) showing what "worms" they were effective against and at what life cycle stages. I tried searching for it but unfortunately the search option in this new site is crap. Hopefully he will post same again so that we can use it as reference.

Jb1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118258357#Comment_118258357

You need to type it into Google itself, and put 'boards.ie' at the end of your search question.

It far better than boards.ie own search function

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118258425#Comment_118258425

I can't remember which thread it was or what the screenshot was called. I even looked up my own posting history as I commented on it at the time and I can't find that either.

I can guarantee you that greysides arrives on site he will post it when he get's the chance.

greysides

I think this/these are the relevant images. Click on the first one to get better distinction.

Lime Tree Farm

Found this UK one online - worth doing print out. I will laminate this one for future reference.

https://www.scops.org.uk/workspace/pdfs/knowyouranthelmintics2014.pdf

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260942#Comment_118260942

Just be careful about following the withdrawal dates in that link from the UK as they may differ in Ireland.

Example: Levafas Diamond has a withdrawal time of 28 days for cattle and 10 days for sheep in Ireland whereas the UK link is showing as 5 days.

https://www.hpra.ie/img/uploaded/swedocuments/Licence_VPA22664-024-001_15012020105014.pdf

greysides

Withdrawal times change. Another reason to check uptodate datasheets.

Lime Tree Farm

Thanks for bringing the withdrawal times to my attention ( it was published in 2014). It's a great chart for comparing product constituents.

Tileman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260942#Comment_118260942

That’s very handy. Thanks for sharing. I’ve just printed it off. Thanks also greyside for your chart. I am a very visual person. I have to se things wrote down. Some one could say all those names to me 10 times and I’d forget it in a moment. . As soon as I can see the words it stays in my brain.

Lime Tree Farm

I read somewhere that Doramectim has a persistency (efficacy/ cover) of 11 weeks - is this fact?

K.G.

I tend to use levafas rather than an invertamin if I see coughing. As far as I know it has a different action to invertamin and means that it's less stressful on an animal if they have a worm or underlining lung condition..

patsy_mccabe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261794#Comment_118261794

Look under "Duration Of Activity" on page 2. 35 days for Ostertagia ostertagi etc .

Licence_VPA10987-166-001_09042021170413.pdf (hpra.ie)

Lime Tree Farm

Used in cattle, effective against all stages of Dictyocalus Viviparus (lung worm).

BENZIMIDAZOLES - (fenbendazole, oxfendazole, albendazole) - all ending in ..dazoles - what diffenciates them.

MACROCYCLIC LACTONES (ivermectin, doramectin, eprinomectin, and moxidectin). All ending in ..mectin or ..dectin. What differentiates this lot.

Is there one better than another for lung worm or holds cover for longer.

greysides

The interval between doses of avermectin anthelmintics is a combination of it's duration of continuing action plus the prepatent period of its main target. This type of dosing aims to kill off worms in the first part of the grazing so their numbers don't build up for the later part. So, the idea is to kill off infection left on the pasture from the previous year (that didn't die off over the winter) as it goes into the calves and then once the dose stops working to dose again before the ingested worms start to lay eggs.

Example: Ivomec's 3,8,13 regime. The five week interval is 2 weeks of persistent action plus the 3 weeks of the prepatent period. For the first dose only the prepatent period applies.

This type of dosing is going out of favour due to resistance concerns and dosing in response to FECs +/- ADG (weight gain) is on the way in.