What marathon training plan do you follow?

viperlogic

So what marathon training plan do/did you follow? If other, then please specify.

Krusty_Clown

1 x Hal Higdon / Makey-uppey - 3:25
5 x P&D - 3:00 / 2:55 / 2:48 / 2:48 / 2:46
3 x JD - 2:43 / 2:38 / 2:38

In my view, if you stick with the same structure of plan, you eventually stagnate. Also, you need to adapt the plans to suit your needs, ao use them as a template.

Bahanaman

1. sport-fitness-advisor.com intermediate plan - 3:36 (Dublin 2011)
2. Hal Higdon Intermediate - 3:19 (Waterford 2012)
3. Hal Higdon Intermediate/Advanced -3:18 (Six weeks out injured, Dublin 2012)
4. Plan I found on the Edinburgh marathon site - 3:17 (Waterford 2013 including the extra .2!)

Faded at the end of all marathons. Need more work on endurance. Sub 3:15 the goal this year!

RayCun

2010: Hal Higdon Novice 2 - 3:58
2011: P&D <55 - 3:29
2014: Jack Daniels -

Autorotation

Hal Higdon x 3:
Dublin 3:42
Paris 3:36
Galway - Dublin 3:34.
After a 4.5 hour break, I ended up running an extra 16 miles with a runner for moral support after my 3:34 time (and no sleep the night before!). I'm sure I could have another full one! I was super fit after that training.

TFBubendorfer

Higdon-ish (2004): 4:06
P&D 55 (2006): 3:28
P&D 70 (2007): 3:12
Brain Training (2008): 3:05
Lydiard (2011): 2:59
Canova-ish (2013): 2:55

I've run out of options

Gavlor

Made up plan 1 Waterford 2012 3.26
Made up plan 2 Dublin 3.09
Made up plan 3 limerick 2013 3.02
Made up plan 4 combining meno's plan with hh advanced Dublin 2013 3.00

For London I'm following this bad boy courtesy of mr A king:


http://www.baa.org/programs/training-programs/marathon-training/advanced-16-week-program.aspx

ecoli

Dublin 2013 - Just miles- 3.00.17
Rotterdam 2014 - Mark Hadley hybrid plan (i.e made up) - ???

Regards plans my advice would be
- Don't be rigid. While people like the structure I would say you should get out of the X session on X day habit. If you need extra recovery in between sessions don't be afraid to take it or swap around as long as its done.
- The mileage should be a guideline rather than a target. Try to remain consistently within a 20 mile gap of it (don't be 10 miles +/- of whats prescribed). Its better to be consistently 5 miles under than 20 up one week and 15 down the following

Krusty_Clown

ecoli wrote: »

Dublin 2013 - Just miles- 3.00.17
Rotterdam 2014 - Mark Hadley hybrid plan (i.e made up) - ???

Regards plans my advice would be
- Don't be rigid. While people like the structure I would say you should get out of the X session on X day habit. If you need extra recovery in between sessions don't be afraid to take it or swap around as long as its done.
- The mileage should be a guideline rather than a target. Try to remain consistently within a 20 mile gap of it (don't be 10 miles +/- of whats prescribed). Its better to be consistently 5 miles under than 20 up one week and 15 down the following

Shouldn't you try following a plan before you provide advice on one?

I'd agree with the sentiment of your advice (particularly about moving sessions to accommodate current state), but most people reading this thread will probably be running less than 50 miles per week, so 20 miles less than that is a significant chunk (too significant a chunk). I would err on the side of staying pretty close to the prescribed mileage, and adjusting the pace to accommodate how one is feeling. Runners new to marathon running need the mileage and they need the discipline of hitting that mileage. They just need to balance that mileage against the need to stay injury free and recover appropriately.

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Shouldn't you try following a plan before you provide advice on one?

I'd agree with the sentiment of your advice (particularly about moving sessions to accommodate current state), but most people reading this thread will probably be running less than 50 miles per week, so 20 miles less than that is a significant chunk (too significant a chunk). I would err on the side of staying pretty close to the prescribed mileage, and adjusting the pace to accommodate how one is feeling. Runners new to marathon running need the mileage and they need the discipline of hitting that mileage. They just need to balance that mileage against the need to stay injury free and recover appropriately.

Sure I was never one to shy away from any discussion I could stick my oar in :P

Sorry that was meant as a 20 mile swing i.e if the mileage is 50mpw then never lower than 40 and never higher than 60.

Paces is also a good variable to manage to how the body is feeling however I think for beginners cutting back the mileage to 80-90% is a much more realistic aspiration as very few relatively new marathon runners take confidence enough in their ability to have the conviction to run proper recovery paces. It's a fine line that is probably more individualistic but the main point behind it is the same irregardless of either approach - consistency will get you far

opus

Plan I found on runrepublic.ie (now seems defunct) (2010) - 3:26
P&D 55 mile (2010) - 3:18
P&D 55 mile (2011) - 2:55
P&D 70 mile (2012) - 2:54
FIRST Run Less Run Faster (2012) - 3:04

My interest has changed a bit to the Comrades ultra now but still using the P&D book just to give a bit of structure. Haven't decided if I'll have a crack at trying to improve on that marathon time again but would probably try something different if I do.

Krusty_Clown

ecoli wrote: »

Sorry that was meant as a 20 mile swing i.e if the mileage is 50mpw then never lower than 40 and never higher than 60.

Paces is also a good variable to manage to how the body is feeling however I think for beginners cutting back the mileage to 80-90% is a much more realistic aspiration as very few relatively new marathon runners take confidence enough in their ability to have the conviction to run proper recovery paces. It's a fine line that is probably more individualistic but the main point behind it is the same irregardless of either approach - consistency will get you far

That makes more sense.

When I first started training for marathons, it wasn't following the plans that posed the greatest threat of injury. The greatest threat came from the period when I wasn't following a plan; when I was making it up as I went along. Formal plans deservedly get a lot of stick, as they are obviously not optimized for the individual runner (unlike the kind of plan you would get from a coach), but when compared to making it up yourself (without having the necessary the background in running), the structure is invaluable, and for most runners will yield far better results (at a greatly reduced risk of injury), versus 'winging it'.

Listening to Pete Pfizginger on the recent MarathonTalk podcast, he was suggesting that the Advanced Marathoning book is aimed at those runners who have completed a couple of marathons, who are in the 2:30 - 4:00 hour range. He talks about the challenge of putting together a generic plan that will work for everyone and mentions the need to customize the plan (adding more strides, increasing mileage or quality etc.) to suit the individual, so recognizes that these plans are not going to squeeze every last drop out of the runner (in the same way that a coach would).

The Jack Daniels plan I have followed is Marathon Plan A. I could never quite figure out who this plan is aimed at though. The elite plan is obviously aimed at those who regularly run 100mpw (rather than peaking at 100miles), so is Plan A aimed at everyone who is not at that level? Because it's time bounded (rather than distance), it does largely scale to the runner, but there are some pretty mammoth sessions in there ( e.g. 15 mile PMP sessions).

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The Jack Daniels plan I have followed is Marathon Plan A. I could never quite figure out who this plan is aimed at though. The elite plan is obviously aimed at those who regularly run 100mpw (rather than peaking at 100miles), so is Plan A aimed at everyone who is not at that level? Because it's time bounded (rather than distance), it does largely scale to the runner, but there are some pretty mammoth sessions in there ( e.g. 15 mile PMP sessions).

I think you need to looks at Daniels in context of his enviroment. For me I reckon it is designed towards the average US club runner. Remember post college the (non professional) club scene is pretty poor. By the time most NCAA athletes finish they either go pro, join running store (semi pro) teams or quit altogether and as such the club scene outside of that isn't great. This plan would be designed for the few who do keep it on but don't have the talent to make it (Possibly NCAA D2/3 athletes or walk ons) who have experience of running high mileage and hard sessions but no longer have the coaching facilities they used to or have taken an absence for a few years.

The book is designed with a US bias to a point (even look at the athlete pictures in the book and unless you are a fan of the sport or US based you probably won't recognise the likes of Webb or Sarah and Ryan Hall) but has been used successfully by many.

I am hesitant of this plan as I do feel that many Irish people who use this don't have the training background initially expected by the author to get the benefits. Having said that I have always maintained than if you can get to the start line healthy and fully fit with these plans you will be as hard as nails.

yaboya1

I have the Daniels Running Formula book and was going to try one of those plans in the future sometime.

Is it just me or are they incredibly complicated to read?

Krusty_Clown

yaboya1 wrote: »

I have the Daniels Running Formula book and was going to try one of those plans in the future sometime.

Is it just me or are they incredibly complicated to read?

I thought so at first too. So much so, that after buying the book, I didn't look at it for another year. But in fact the plans are easy enough to follow, if you know the basic principles. Some of the workouts are still a little tough to decipher and set-up, particularly in the shorter distance plans. Here's an example:
45 minute steady T pace or
20 minutes or 4 miles T pace, + 4 mins E pace + 15 mins or 3 miles T pace + 3 mins E pace + 10 mins or 2 miles T pace, +2 min E pace + 5 min or 1 mile T pace.

I think I'd take the 45 minute steady T pace, just to avoid trying to work out the alternative.

viperlogic

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I thought so at first too. So much so, that after buying the book, I didn't look at it for another year. But in fact the plans are easy enough to follow, if you know the basic principles. Some of the workouts are still a little tough to decipher and set-up, particularly in the shorter distance plans. Here's an example:
45 minute steady T pace or
20 minutes or 4 miles T pace, + 4 mins E pace + 15 mins or 3 miles T pace + 3 mins E pace + 10 mins or 2 miles T pace, +2 min E pace + 5 min or 1 mile T pace.

I think I'd take the 45 minute steady T pace, just to avoid trying to work out the alternative.

Started reading the book at the weekend and at first too was also thrown by the plan but if you break it down its not too bad to understand. So the plan details the two quality sessions per week but at what pace(s) should the remainder weekly mileage be done at?

Krusty_Clown

viperlogic wrote: »

Started reading the book at the weekend and at first too was also thrown by the plan but if you break it down its not too bad to understand. So the plan details the two quality sessions per week but at what pace(s) should the reminder weekly mileage be done at?

Generally speaking, they should be done at E (easy) pace. For those runs, I find it most helpful to forget the watch (I switch the screens, so it only show distance) and just run at aerobic pace, so faster than recovery, and slower than 'requiring a decent amount of effort'. For my last marathon regime, for a target marathon pace of 6 min/mile, most of these easy runs would have been at around 7:15-7:25/mile. During 100 mile (max mileage) weeks, the pace might drop a little (particularly the day after a quality session), back to 7:30-7:40, but I found the most important thing was not to have pace showing on the watch and just run by feel.

yaboya1

So just to clarify, lets say you're doing a 100 mile week (just to make working out percentages easy). The Q1 workout is a 25% long run and the Q2 workout is another session that covers 8%, do you then run the remaining 67 miles at easy pace, spreading them out over the other five days however it suits you best?

Krusty_Clown

yaboya1 wrote: »

So just to clarify, lets say you're doing a 100 mile week (just to make working out percentages easy). The Q1 workout is a 25% long run and the Q2 workout is another session that covers 8%, do you then run the remaining 67 miles at easy pace, spreading them out over the other five days however it suits you best?

Yep, though you'd add some strides after a couple of days of consecutive easy runs. It's unlikely that you'd have an 8% and 25% session though. More likely to be 22% and 17% (for example).

yaboya1

Now I get it. Thanks for clearing that up. It is much easier to read now.

robinph

I've followed a few plans over the years and times have gone from around 6hrs, when following the "just turn up and run" plan, to 4:45hrs when following the very similar "getting a place in London was the hard part" plan. I then progressed onto the slightly more advance "just bleeding run" plan which took me to a couple of 3:2x times, and now I use the "just run a bit bleeding faster then" plan which has got me a couple of sub 3's and a couple just over 3hrs.
I am trying to develop a new plan of "just run a bit more then" and see if that works better by not being too concerned about the faster part as it will just come as a by product of it.

Plans really don't work for me, well maybe they would, I don't know as I've not tried. I'm fairly sure that following a plan would just make me loose interest in going running though. If I feel like going for a run I will. If I don't feel like going for a run I won't. If I feel like running X miles then you can get stuffed if you think I'm going to run X+Y miles just because it says so on someone else's plan.
Of course if you call it a race and there is the offer of cake and a pint at the end then I may run some other "speed" session across some daft terrain, but mostly I'll just go out and try and have fun.