How to play digital files in high quality sound

Sanguine Fan

Sorry if I have posted this to the wrong forum.

Some years ago I bought an iPod Classic gen. 5 and now most of my music collection is in digital format.

The problem is that, over the years, I have come to realise that the sound quality from the iPod is not great. Up to now the fact that it has such huge capacity and brilliant software has compensated for this. Now though I would trade a lot of these trimmings for decent sound.

Usually I play the iPod through my stereo system, so I don't really use it as a portable device. My music files are a combination of mp3 (320 kbps) and Apple Lossless and total just over 65gb.

Is there an alternative to the iPod for audiophiles like me? None of the other mp3 players I have come across have anything like its storage space. Is there perhaps a non-portable device that would do the job and that could be hooked up to a rather elderly Denon system?

Idleater

Some generations of the ipod classic (60 or 80gb gen5 iirc) have a very good dac and digital out, and the original ipod shuffle is audiophile because there is nothing altering the signal between storage, dac and amp.

After this, you can store your lossless audio on a drive and stream it to a dac or dlna player.
Plenty of options either way from a dedicated box or something like a playstation 3 or even a raspberry pi.

Sanguine Fan

Thanks for the fast response.

Idleater wrote: »

Some generations of the ipod classic (60 or 80gb gen5 iirc) have a very good dac and digital out, and the original ipod shuffle is audiophile because there is nothing altering the signal between storage, dac and amp.

I use an 80gb 5th gen. iPod Classic, but I have to disagree about sound quality. I believe earlier models had the Wolfson audio chip which produced better quality sound than the more recent iPods. However, I don't know if mine has the Wolfson. If it has then audio quality on the newer iPods must be very poor indeed. Unfortunately the shuffle would not have anything like the storage capacity I need.

Idleater wrote: »

After this, you can store your lossless audio on a drive and stream it to a dac or dlna player.
Plenty of options either way from a dedicated box or something like a playstation 3 or even a raspberry pi.

I bought an Apple TV recently and began streaming from my laptop. The sound was much better than from the iPod and this made me realise what I had been missing.

It's a lot more unwieldy than just using the iPod though. The laptop has to be on with iTunes open. The telly becomes like a giant iPod screen and has to be connected to the stereo system. I can live with it because the sound is so much better, but is there a better solution?

Ideally what I'd like is a hard drive with a display screen (and a remote control) that I could connect directly to the stereo. That's how I use the iPod, but no other portable device has anything like the iPod's storage capacity. It's just a pity Apple stint on audio quality.

Idleater

For a dedicated standalone separates device I suggest you google the Naim hdx and work on (say meridian) or back (say nad m52) from there with respect to you budget.

With regard to your iPod, you could take a look at something like the wadia dac, or equivalent that bypasses the iPod dac. Again depending on budget there are more expensive or cheaper solutions.

What is the rest of your setup like?

Sanguine Fan

Idleater wrote: »

For a dedicated standalone separates device I suggest you google the Naim hdx and work on (say meridian) or back (say nad m52) from there with respect to you budget.

With regard to your iPod, you could take a look at something like the wadia dac, or equivalent that bypasses the iPod dac. Again depending on budget there are more expensive or cheaper solutions.

What is the rest of your setup like?

Thanks again.

Those hard drive devices are away outside my budget. Maybe in a few years they'll be on sale in Harvey Norman's!

The wadia looks interesting and may be what I need. I'll investigate further. I'm also looking at the Cowon mp3 players but I don't know if they can be had in Ireland.

I use a Denon all-in-one system with Mission speakers, bought long before the digital age. But it still sounds fine.

Idleater

Take a look at something like the pro ject audio box designs dac boxes.
Or search avforums or headfi for ipod dacs. There are plenty of them to suit any budget.

Sanguine Fan

Idleater wrote: »

Take a look at something like the pro ject audio box designs dac boxes.
Or search avforums or headfi for ipod dacs. There are plenty of them to suit any budget.

In following up your suggestions I have come across the Pure i-20 dock which seems tailor-made for what I need, and it's pretty cheap at under 100 euro.

Glad to have finally found what I am looking for. Thanks again.

bernard0368

I have the cowon Z2 32gb with a 64gb sd card. The sound quality from it is fantastic and plays most formats. I installed playamp on it which helped improve the somewhat dated interface but keeps the cowon sound quality.

The other cowon is the X7 160gb I think this has been discontinued but if you can get one it is a great piece of kit . 110 hrs playback, fantastic sound quality I have it matched with a pair of grados,(useless for the bus but walking the dogs wow) and again takes most music formats and can be modded one fault is the cable which is X7 specific the Z2 is a generic micro usb.

There is the X9 but I have never used one.

I got the X7 from Exporte prive (?) this came from France.
The Z2 came from Advanced MP£ in the UK.

Sanguine Fan

bernard0368 wrote: »

I have the cowon Z2 32gb with a 64gb sd card. The sound quality from it is fantastic and plays most formats. I installed playamp on it which helped improve the somewhat dated interface but keeps the cowon sound quality.

The other cowon is the X7 160gb I think this has been discontinued but if you can get one it is a great piece of kit . 110 hrs playback, fantastic sound quality I have it matched with a pair of grados,(useless for the bus but walking the dogs wow) and again takes most music formats and can be modded one fault is the cable which is X7 specific the Z2 is a generic micro usb.

There is the X9 but I have never used one.

I got the X7 from Exporte prive (?) this came from France.
The Z2 came from Advanced MP£ in the UK.

I have read great things about the Cowon sound, but I'm not sure about its ability to play Apple Lossless files. If I was starting from scratch I'd go with something like that.

Ideally I am looking for a combination of the Cowon audio quality and the capacity and interface of the iPod. I think I have found it in the Pure i-20. It's on order anyway so I'll know soon enough.

art

How were you connecting the iPod to the stereo amp? If your set up pre-dates digital connections, as you've suggested, then I suspect it is the quality of the connection that is the issue here, not the iPod (or potentially any other digital player for that matter) here.

Idleater

art wrote: »

How were you connecting the iPod to the stereo amp? If your set up pre-dates digital connections, as you've suggested, then I suspect it is the quality of the connection that is the issue here, not the iPod (or potentially any other digital player for that matter) here.

Not necessarily, most ipods have decent line level output from the old dock connector, and the original shuffle has a very good analogue stage.

turbot

There is an easy solution, though pricy:

Get a cambridge Audio ID100 - and pipe the output through a high quality digital audio converter.

This should substantially increase the sound quality, provided they are full quality mp3s or AACs. If they are only encoded in 128kbps, then the improvement may be modest.

Sanguine Fan

art wrote: »

How were you connecting the iPod to the stereo amp? If your set up pre-dates digital connections, as you've suggested, then I suspect it is the quality of the connection that is the issue here, not the iPod (or potentially any other digital player for that matter) here.

The cable I used had a headphone jack at one end and two phono plugs (left and right) at the other. However that was not the problem as I have since discovered.

Since hooking it up to the Pure i-20 dock I notice a marked improvement in audio quality from the iPod. The fact is the iPod Classic does not produce good sound, regardless of the quality of the original files. Much of my music is in lossless format and I feel I am now hearing it for the first time.

Apart from the extra detail I can now hear, the sound is so much more vibrant than before, even from files compressed at 320kbps. The pure dock costs less than a 100 euro and is well worth the money for anyone like me who likes the convenience and flexibility of the iPod, but wants better sound than it can produce on its own.

cnocbui

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

The cable I used had a headphone jack at one end and two phono plugs (left and right) at the other. However that was not the problem as I have since discovered.

Since hooking it up to the Pure i-20 dock I notice a marked improvement in audio quality from the iPod. The fact is the iPod Classic does not produce good sound, regardless of the quality of the original files. Much of my music is in lossless format and I feel I am now hearing it for the first time.

Apart from the extra detail I can now hear, the sound is so much more vibrant than before, even from files compressed at 320kbps. The pure dock costs less than a 100 euro and is well worth the money for anyone like me who likes the convenience and flexibility of the iPod, but wants better sound than it can produce on its own.

Your problem was probably because you were hooking up your iPod to your stereo via the iPod's headphone jack. If you had gotten an iPod dock, and connected the dock to your HiFi, I doubt you would have been dissatisfied with the sound quality. When you use the dock connector on an iPod, you get a direct line level output that is straight from the DAC and doesn't go through the headphone amp stage.

I hook up my iPod to my HiFi via a dock and the sound quality is excellent.

I recently got an Apple Airport express and the sound quality is superb. You can stream to it via Airplay losslessly and can control the volume from iTunes on whatever device you are using to stream to it. I use my Macbook but you can stream from an iPod Touch or iPhone as well.

Sanguine Fan

cnocbui wrote: »

Your problem was probably because you were hooking up your iPod to your stereo via the iPod's headphone jack. If you had gotten an iPod dock, and connected the dock to your HiFi, I doubt you would have been dissatisfied with the sound quality. When you use the dock connector on an iPod, you get a direct line level output that is straight from the DAC and doesn't go through the headphone amp stage.

I only really noticed how poor the sound quality is from the iPod when I began to stream from my laptop through my Apple TV. The different was really noticeable. However, it meant a cumbersome arrangement of laptop, Apple TV, TV, and Hi-Fi system, making sure that iTunes was open and the laptop was not asleep.

The Pure dock makes it simpler and the sound is better even than the Apple TV. Maybe the Apple dock would be just as good, but I am very happy with my present system.

Of course, the iPod was created to be used as a mobile device with headphones. Audio quality is not such a big issue if you are listening to 128kbps music in a noisy bus. But the iPod is also ideal for accessing a large music collection quickly at home. With no other distractions, audio quality is much more important.

emo72

can you not buy a machine that is rockboxable? it plays almost every file type. secondhand iriver h120 or 320, simple drag and drop, no need to faff around with itunes. or just buy a fiio x3, or x1 or x5 when they land.

art

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

The Pure dock makes it simpler and the sound is better even than the Apple TV. Maybe the Apple dock would be just as good, but I am very happy with my present system.

Of course, the iPod was created to be used as a mobile device with headphones. Audio quality is not such a big issue if you are listening to 128kbps music in a noisy bus. But the iPod is also ideal for accessing a large music collection quickly at home. With no other distractions, audio quality is much more important.

As cnocbui mentioned, you were using the iPod's headphone amp and its analogue output, to play through your hifi which was causing the sound to degrade. The Pure i-20 is good mind, and it does leverage the digital output but uses it's own DAC rather than the iPod's- it's very arguable whether that's a better DAC but as in all things audio, people have their own preferences; eg the iPhone DAC is very flat whereas the i-20 tends to peak.

If you need to get sound out of the device again, without the i-20 (for whatever reason - or for anyone else here looking for less expensive options), this cable is a very cheap solution for accessing the digital output (ie without the use of a dock):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-Lineout-Dock-cable-iPhone/dp/B004WB7UWY

A dock alternative is the Kitsound, which is much cheaper than Apple's own dock and has stereo outputs:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00555RH7Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

scruff monkey

art wrote: »

If you need to get sound out of the device again, without the i-20 (for whatever reason - or for anyone else here looking for less expensive options), this cable is a very cheap solution for accessing the digital output (ie without the use of a dock):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-Lineout-Dock-cable-iPhone/dp/B004WB7UWY

I would second the use of those dock line out cables, i have one in the car to connect to the aux on the car stereo, even in that environment there's a world of difference between the quality coming from the dock connector vs that from the headphone jack