Weight Left During Swing

alxmorgan

Hey,

Being playing around with starting with my weight favouring my left side on setup and "feeling" like I keep it there during the swing.
Obviously with moving arms and club around there will be a weight shift to the right but not consciously.
This has been from the teachings of Martin Chuck (youtube, Revolution Golf).
The idea being that the danger of shifting too far to the right is that you slide and/or don't get weight back left in time.

Anyone tried this or any thoughts on it and any dangers of it ?

thanks,

Russman

Assume you're right handed ?
You talking about a hybrid version of "stack and tilt" ?

alxmorgan

Russman wrote: »

Assume you're right handed ?
You talking about a hybrid version of "stack and tilt" ?

Yes right handed. Martin addresses S&T and agrees with a lot of what they say but wouldn't be as much of a zealot if you will.

Russman

Yeah they do have a bit of an evangelical vibe about themselves alright !

Ahh no, personally I don't think there's any "system" that works or doesn't. A good coach should work with what a player has and IMHO, a player, once he reaches a certain age, can't really make huge changes to his swing - you might think you're making changes, but really you're only tweaking what you've got. Very few people can make wholesale changes.

If you try it and it works FOR YOU then happy days. Who cares about the theory if your hitting the ball better ! I don't know a massive amount about S&T but I'd simply feel that if it was the fantastic system they claim, a lot more people would use it. A pro friend of mine tried it briefly for the craic, his mid-irons were fantastic (but that was probably because he ended up hitting a 7 iron with a 5 iron loft at impact) but he couldn't hit the driver out of his way - abandoned it after a little while.

Almost any sport that involves hitting or swinging from a fixed position, relies on a weight transfer for power. Even boxers have to shift their weight to get a really powerful punch.

alxmorgan

Russman wrote: »

Yeah they do have a bit of an evangelical vibe about themselves alright !

Ahh no, personally I don't think there's any "system" that works or doesn't. A good coach should work with what a player has and IMHO, a player, once he reaches a certain age, can't really make huge changes to his swing - you might think you're making changes, but really you're only tweaking what you've got. Very few people can make wholesale changes.

If you try it and it works FOR YOU then happy days. Who cares about the theory if your hitting the ball better ! I don't know a massive amount about S&T but I'd simply feel that if it was the fantastic system they claim, a lot more people would use it. A pro friend of mine tried it briefly for the craic, his mid-irons were fantastic (but that was probably because he ended up hitting a 7 iron with a 5 iron loft at impact) but he couldn't hit the driver out of his way - abandoned it after a little while.

Almost any sport that involves hitting or swinging from a fixed position, relies on a weight transfer for power. Even boxers have to shift their weight to get a really powerful punch.

All makes sense. I struggle with low point control and hence this idea seemed to make sense to me. I have had some success with it but saw myself on video last night and I seem a bit "trapped". Think I may need to work on trying to create more "room" while still feeling like I am keeping my weight left.

Russman

alxmorgan wrote: »

All makes sense. I struggle with low point control and hence this idea seemed to make sense to me. I have had some success with it but saw myself on video last night and I seem a bit "trapped". Think I may need to work on trying to create more "room" while still feeling like I am keeping my weight left.

That might be hard to do if your weight is already on your left side. You won't have the momentum created by the weight shift and hips opening to get clear and give room.

alxmorgan

Russman wrote: »

That might be hard to do if your weight is already on your left side. You won't have the momentum created by the weight shift and hips opening to get clear and give room.

Yip that's kind of why I am asking to see if anyone does this and has come across the same issue.
Maybe it is not an issue. The only thing that matters is impact really so if I look trapped but still manage to get into a good impact position then I'll take that.

I agree it might be difficult with weight left alright. Guess it's something I need to play around with. Maybe it's about degrees of leftness and hence less left = allowing more room. Practice time needed (but difficult to get :rolleyes: )

bobwilliams

what I find with S and T etc is that it promotes a push or slice for a lot of players,i never think about weight transfer myself,just let it happen naturally,i would teach players to keep their core strong and stable.
Every amateur golfer who wants to get better needs to work with kettle bells etc,the difference a bit of core work does to your golf swing is huge,there's some good excercises on the titleist website.

rollotomasi

alxmorgan wrote: »

Yip that's kind of why I am asking to see if anyone does this and has come across the same issue.
Maybe it is not an issue. The only thing that matters is impact really so if I look trapped but still manage to get into a good impact position then I'll take that.

I agree it might be difficult with weight left alright. Guess it's something I need to play around with. Maybe it's about degrees of leftness and hence less left = allowing more room. Practice time needed (but difficult to get :rolleyes: )

As with comments above, weight on the left is good for irons but tricker for the longer irons and woods. If you were swaying badly on the backswing, having the 'sense' of loading the left side is good. And i would mess about with moving the ball forward for the woods. Dufners swing is stack-and-tilt-ish and works for him.

Another thought - have you tried a backswing rotating around a fixed right hip on the back swing (assuming you're right handed)?

alxmorgan

rollotomasi wrote: »

Another thought - have you tried a backswing rotating around a fixed right hip on the back swing (assuming you're right handed)?

This is a new one on me....can you elaborate ?

rollotomasi

alxmorgan wrote: »

This is a new one on me....can you elaborate ?

Its something i saw on a few Youtube sources (the Meandmygolf guys mentioned in on one of their vids)

I had a tendency to sway to the right (i'm right handed) on the backswing and therefore some problems returning to the ball.
The swing thought is for the back swing to be around the fixed point of the right hip.
In reality, the hips actually should move toward the target slightly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tFDMjY1Zgg

I've been working on this thought on the practice ground for the last while and its working.

alxmorgan

rollotomasi wrote: »

Its something i saw on a few Youtube sources (the Meandmygolf guys mentioned in on one of their vids)

I had a tendency to sway to the right (i'm right handed) on the backswing and therefore some problems returning to the ball.
The swing thought is for the back swing to be around the fixed point of the right hip.
In reality, the hips actually should move toward the target slightly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tFDMjY1Zgg

I've been working on this thought on the practice ground for the last while and its working.

Interesting video. Centered head....lower body weight towards target....upper body weight away from target. He makes it look so simple

FixdePitchmark

Russman wrote: »

Yeah they do have a bit of an evangelical vibe about themselves alright !

Ahh no, personally I don't think there's any "system" that works or doesn't. A good coach should work with what a player has and IMHO, a player, once he reaches a certain age, can't really make huge changes to his swing - you might think you're making changes, but really you're only tweaking what you've got. Very few people can make wholesale changes.

What age do you think this is :P:o

Milkers

It's interesting how different cues can produce different movements and different feels. Backswing pivoting around right leg can work great and often helps a golfer stay more centred. Ironically the critics of this cue believe it promotes swaying!

Agree that Martin Chuck has many good youtube vids and seems to have an incredible understanding of the golf swing without resorting to a whole lot of dogmatic method.

spacecoyote

I used to naturally do this to some extent, weight way too heavily on left side. Yes, I was creating great Lag, but the main problem was getting the hands & club back in time with my body turn. When I did do it, got a lovely contact, but when I didn't get back in time result in a push/slice as the club face ended up open at impact.

I've moved away from it to a more neutral position & have deifintely seen an improvement in the consistency of my ball striking.

alxmorgan

spacecoyote wrote: »

I used to naturally do this to some extent, weight way too heavily on left side. Yes, I was creating great Lag, but the main problem was getting the hands & club back in time with my body turn. When I did do it, got a lovely contact, but when I didn't get back in time result in a push/slice as the club face ended up open at impact.

I've moved away from it to a more neutral position & have deifintely seen an improvement in the consistency of my ball striking.

Did you have an issues with "getting back" to the ball when you moved position initially ?

spacecoyote

Maybe a little with the Driver, but not so much with the irons.

I'm definitely making a more consistent square contact now than I was before.

To be honest with you, its still very much a work in progress for me. Have only had one lesson so far where I started to make the change. Have an exam to do on Saturday week, once thats out of the way, it'll be in for lesson 2 asap and step 2 on the road to my new swing

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

What age do you think this is :P:o

X+1, where x is your current age

PARlance

Russman wrote: »

X+1, where x is your current age

And +1 = last year

FixdePitchmark

PARlance wrote: »

And +1 = last year

X = current age
Y = mental age

If
X - Y > 5

You are grand and X+1 is not true for you.


All joking aside, I think I would agree. I changed my swing 2 months ago - scored well and within 2 months was back to my old ways.

Does that mean you are better off working with what you have got - in a way some people can't change - a good question .

GreeBo

I play this way and have done for the past 7 years or so.
I strike the ball better and don't have to worry about reverse pivot or swaying.
I get all the momentum I need from a hip turn, I'm not a short hitter and I don't swing aggressively at all.

A couple of tips that might help.
Play the ball forward in your stance, if its middle then you will have to go back for it, causing problems. The ball is always just inside my left for, for every shot.

Make sure you are hitting up on the driver, this setup promotes a downwards strike, you need to adjust this a little for the driver. However it's great for tee shots into the wind!

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Does that mean you are better off working with what you have got - in a way some people can't change - a good question .

I really do think this is true once you get past maybe your early twenties.

A well known teacher once who told me a story about a video lesson he gave someone (a top amateur) - apparently he changed the students grip slightly. Anyway the student had a few weeks of solid golf coming up and after that came back reporting that the change had worked and he was playing super. So they video taped him again and his grip was exactly as it had been before the first lesson, all that had happened was that 4 weeks of solid golf had him timing it better.

There was a bit of a move in late 80s & early 90s to method teaching a la Leadbetter, but I think nowadays the better teachers are working with what their students have. Personally I think that apart from the fundamentals of grip, stance, set up etc, everyone swings differently and there can't be a one size fits all approach to teaching.

I tried out a new teacher about 18 months ago, on a recommendation from one of my best mates who is a pro, and one of the first things he said to me (never having seen me before) was that "it looks like you're trying to make someone else's swing" - that kind of stuck with me and got me thinking maybe we can't actually "change" our swings.

bobwilliams

GreeBo wrote: »

I play this way and have done for the past 7 years or so.
I strike the ball better and don't have to worry about reverse pivot or swaying.
I get all the momentum I need from a hip turn, I'm not a short hitter and I don't swing aggressively at all.

A couple of tips that might help.
Play the ball forward in your stance, if its middle then you will have to go back for it, causing problems. The ball is always just inside my left for, for every shot.

Make sure you are hitting up on the driver, this setup promotes a downwards strike, you need to adjust this a little for the driver. However it's great for tee shots into the wind!

whatever works for ya and al that but there's a lot wrong with some of the info you give to somebody reading this and thinking of trying it.
For eg playing all your shots from just inside your left foot is not good advice.
If club face is square at address hands will be slightly forward promoting a down strike and hands slightly ahead of ball at impact but this only works with ball closer to centre.
Using your advice a correct club face at address would have one's hands left of your left leg and from there I'd be expecting a lot of slicies.

GreeBo

bobwilliams wrote: »

whatever works for ya and al that but there's a lot wrong with some of the info you give to somebody reading this and thinking of trying it.
For eg playing all your shots from just inside your left foot is not good advice.
If club face is square at address hands will be slightly forward promoting a down strike and hands slightly ahead of ball at impact but this only works with ball closer to centre.
Using your advice a correct club face at address would have one's hands left of your left leg and from there I'd be expecting a lot of slicies.

Well I'll have to leave you to argue that with my pro I'm afraid...

But...I don't see how you can say it only works with the ball in centre, the clubface doesn't need to be square at address, only impact. Also, if with my ball position your hands are past your though you have too much of a forward press...way too much

bobwilliams

GreeBo wrote: »

Well I'll have to leave you to argue that with my pro I'm afraid...

But...I don't see how you can say it only works with the ball in centre, the clubface doesn't need to be square at address, only impact. Also, if with my ball position your hands are past your though you have too much of a forward press...way too much

clubface should indeed be square at address,no pro worth their salt would argue against this.
Otherwise there would be manipulation which does not bode well for consistency and a square clubface at impact which after all is the one thing we all strive for.
Also I don't quite get the last sentence of your post.

Milkers

bobwilliams wrote: »

clubface should indeed be square at address,no pro worth their salt would argue against this.
Otherwise there would be manipulation which does not bode well for consistency and a square clubface at impact which after all is the one thing we all strive for.
Also I don't quite get the last sentence of your post.

This would only be true if impact position = address position but of course they are two completely different things, in fact a good impact position barely resembles address. And there are highly regarded pros who advocate a slightly closed face at address for the very reason that it encourages a better impact position.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

I play this way and have done for the past 7 years or so.
I strike the ball better and don't have to worry about reverse pivot or swaying.
I get all the momentum I need from a hip turn, I'm not a short hitter and I don't swing aggressively at all.

A couple of tips that might help.
Play the ball forward in your stance, if its middle then you will have to go back for it, causing problems. The ball is always just inside my left for, for every shot.

Make sure you are hitting up on the driver, this setup promotes a downwards strike, you need to adjust this a little for the driver. However it's great for tee shots into the wind!

Interesting to hear this. And yes I do play ball forward for all shots.

Out of interest is your miss left ? I ask as this setup seems to promote an in to out swing which depending on face can mean leftward misses

GreeBo

bobwilliams wrote: »

clubface should indeed be square at address,no pro worth their salt would argue against this.
Otherwise there would be manipulation which does not bode well for consistency and a square clubface at impact which after all is the one thing we all strive for.
Also I don't quite get the last sentence of your post.

Address != impact already covered above

Regarding the last point, you stated that having the ball forward in your stance would mean your hands are past your front leg
"Using your advice a correct club face at address would have one's hands left of your left leg"
This means that you are advocating that your hands should be 6inches or so in front of the ball...imo thats way too much and you are reducing the effective loft way to much, then again its probably not that reduced at impact as it would be impossible to hit the ball from this position I reckon.

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

Interesting to hear this. And yes I do play ball forward for all shots.

Out of interest is your miss left ? I ask as this setup seems to promote an in to out swing which depending on face can mean leftward misses

I try to miss with a pull left, if you know what I mean.

My only swing thought at the moment is swing left as hard as I can..I had a real problem with trying to swing out after the ball which requires manipulation. I should be swinging back inside and forward inside also, which means you have to turn your body out of the way on the way down.

I've been told to keep trying to swing left until I am hitting a consistent pull straight left, no spin....then dial it back a bit until its straight.

Strikes are far, far better with this than before, where I would have a draw swing, in to out after the ball.

bobwilliams

GreeBo wrote: »

Address != impact already covered above

Regarding the last point, you stated that having the ball forward in your stance would mean your hands are past your front leg
"Using your advice a correct club face at address would have one's hands left of your left leg"
This means that you are advocating that your hands should be 6inches or so in front of the ball...imo thats way too much and you are reducing the effective loft way to much, then again its probably not that reduced at impact as it would be impossible to hit the ball from this position I reckon.

You totally misread my post,you're bit like the wife,never wrong

GreeBo

bobwilliams wrote: »

You totally misread my post,you're bit like the wife,never wrong

If you can explain how "Using your advice a correct club face at address would have one's hands left of your left leg" means anything other than your hands being well forward then please do. If you cant thats also fine.

Attack the post, not the poster please. Next time you will get infracted

John Divney

On the weight shift issue, I have always thought this was the most important thing to ball striking, all other things being somewhat consistent.

My weight was going left very early, this made my me get well ahead tempo wise, as if the weight was well ahead of the time it took to get to the low point of my swing, which was resulting in thin shots and a tendency to early extend a bit.

I focused on little else but keeping my weight around 50/50 after hip turn and club around parraell to ground, and then at impact two feet still on the ground, the maximum weight on my left side would be timed with impact.

It makes for very consistent iron shots, and staying in the shot until after impact.

I think keeping weight left at the start is a decent thing for people who don't transfer weight on the dowmswing, but for those who don't have a problem with that I don't think it is relevant.

m r c

Hi axl, I've been meaning to reply to this thread since you put it up.

I think golf for most people is about managing and working with your tendencies.
I've started doing this and I'm getting great results, to the point where it's easy to be like everyone should be doing this and if they're not they are wrong. But everyone doesn't have my tendencies.
I will hit it fat, hit it too high, shank them and lose them right.
So I've had excellent results at address moving my left hip targetward and with my weight more toward my heels than toe.

These are feelings btw they may not look exactly as I'm feeling them.
So anyway with my irons hybrid and fw's this setup works a treat I'm finding the back if the ball lovely and am able to hit through the ball with way more purpose than before.
The driver is a little different though, if I want to fade the driver I remain in this setup but if I'm playing a draw I'll tilt my head away from the target leaving my hip in place, I'll also close my shoulders a touch which moves my swing path more in to out and I'll strike up on the ball giving me a nice high draw/hook if I close the face too much.

^^^ all of those changes to a golfer who produces fairly neutral numbers and they'd never see the ball again

I kinda feel like these changes needed me to lose the ego a little too, truth be told my old swing looked quite conventional and my current high draw set up looks anything but. I could care less though the truth is in the numbers on the card.

Finally I also found I could chip when I started with weight left too. Literally every chip I'd taken before trying this setup had been somewhat fat to differing degrees.