Commercial Property owner wants to rent to live-in tenants

eeisqn

I live in a building with some commercial units on the ground floor/basement and apartments on two floors above these commercial units.

The owner of one of the Commercial units is renting the unit to students who are now living in the office area.

The Mgt Co is made up of residents and this situation re the unit is causing some concern fo rthe residents. What is the legal position here? Can the unit be rented out to residential tenants?

Any advice gratefully received.
Steve

Victor

It would need planning permission, unless it already has a dual residential / commercial PP.

eeisqn

Thanks Victor, if there is someone in there now, does this expose the Mgt Co to any legal or insurance issues? Or it it all on the owner of the unit? We have tried to reason with the owner to evict the tenants immediately but he is resisting. We are not a professional Mgt Co, just residents manging this ourselves.

eeisqn

assuming only Commerc ial use PP of course...

djimi

Assuming the commercial space is not properly decked out for residential tenants then it will not meet the standards for a residential tenancy, and the local council might be interested enough to make an inspection...

Lantus

djimi wrote: »

Assuming the commercial space is not properly decked out for residential tenants then it will not meet the standards for a residential tenancy, and the local council might be interested enough to make an inspection...

1/ Call local council and report commercial unit being used as a residential space. You say you have tried to reason with the owner. Has he tried to convince you that there is planning permission in place? Building control may also be interested as commercial units typically don't have the required level of insulation or windows for vents to be compliant. Unless he has made building alterations or the units look just like apartments I find it very unlikely it could be used as a residency. We have commercial units and aside from a single pane shop front there are no windows! What heating is used? Did he install gas or use electric? Did the OMC approve this and more importantly has the block insurance provider signed off on a change of use prior to any such change which is typically required. Our insurer needed to see drawings and insurance certs from all tradesman as well as safety certs prior to any work being done.

2/ Check to see if the property has been registered with the Private residential Tenancy board which is a legal requirement. (You can check the register online.) If not make an immediate enforcement referral which takes about 5 minutes.

3/ Do a land registry search for the folio which will give you the name of the lender. (costs €5) Write to them and complain that the commercial unit is being rented out. He may not of even of told them and it could be a complete breach of his loan. Revenue may like to be notified as well. If he hasn't told the PRTB then it typically follows that other little things like declaring the property for tax as rental income and telling your lender also fall by the wayside.

IF there is a proper management company then enquire what the contract lease says about the units with the directors. It may prohibit any such activity.

Please don't use any of the above to threaten the owner. Just get on with it.

eeisqn

Thanks all!

0ph0rce0

Nice.Cause the residents are concerned, not because they are in there but more so i don't want to live near students. I know!!! we should F**k the students out on the street. We need more folks like you in the world :rolleyes:

cruizer101

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Nice.Cause the residents are concerned, not because they are in there but more so i don't want to live near students. I know!!! we should F**k the students out on the street. We need more folks like you in the world :rolleyes:

Jumping to assumptions a bit there, from what OP said the main concern seems to be

eeisqn wrote:

if there is someone in there now, does this expose the Mgt Co to any legal or insurance issues?

Which is what I'd be worried about too.

mathepac

eeisqn wrote: »

Thanks Victor, if there is someone in there now, does this expose the Mgt Co to any legal or insurance issues? Or it it all on the owner of the unit? We have tried to reason with the owner to evict the tenants immediately but he is resisting. We are not a professional Mgt Co, just residents manging this ourselves.

I'm confused. I suspect you are describing a Residents' Association and not a Management Company in the legal sense.

Scortho

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Nice.Cause the residents are concerned, not because they are in there but more so i don't want to live near students. I know!!! we should F**k the students out on the street. We need more folks like you in the world :rolleyes:

Grand so, just feck all planning legislation out the window. Sure no harm could come from that could it?
Oh wait!


It'd be different if the students had moved in next door into an actual apartment, they haven't. They've moved into the equivalent of a shop, that's had a kitchen and bedrooms plus jacks installed and most likely been done without planning permission to a standard that doesn't meet regulations.

Sure we should just forget about all that because they're students and have nowhere else to live.

eeisqn

The students are living in a unit that has up to now been used as offices. Our primary concern is the legal/insurance implications of this situation. We have a registered Management Company for the building to manage things like maintenance fees and insurance etc. However, the Mgt Co. committee is made up of residents. Most apt blocks are managed by an external company like KPM but this is run by residents. Therefore, we don't really have an indepth knowledge of the legalities....we look for advice whenever needed. Plus, we have students living in 2 of the apts and there is no issue with that!!
Thanks for the constructive comments! Very helpful.

djimi

The external companies like KPM are agents who look after the properties/complex. But in most cases (or all really I guess) the actual management company will still be made up of the leaseholders, the same as you.

mathepac

Confusion reigns!

The members of the Management Company (properly registered as a non-trading entity with the CRO) in a multi-unit development are the owners of the individual properties. Ownerships of the common areas, possibly the parking spaces & gardens are vested in the Management Company.

The Management Company may (and often does) appoint a professional Managing Agent (also properly registered with the CRO and with Revenue for VAT, etc) to look after insurances, collection of maintenance fees, waste collection, implementation of house rules, decoration, preparation of accounts, etc.

In order to help OP it is important to know what type of organisation they believe they are part of. My suspicion is that they are a members of neither of the above standard organisations as if they were the legalities of their situation would be crystal clear, or they'd have access to paid, professional advice.

eeisqn

The Mgt Co is registered with CRO. The directors are residents of the building. We manage it on a voluntary unpaid basis, making sure insurance is paid, building is maintained, accounts are drawn up for the CRO etc

mathepac

As properly appointed directors of of a MUD Management Company you need to get expert legal advice about your individual responsibilities and about the planning provisions of the commercial property. It is unrealistic and irresponsible to expect posters on a web-site to provide such advice.