Can someone please define "money laundering"

ScouseMouse

Hiya folks.

I am in an argument with someone and was wondering if anyone has an opinion.

My uneducated understanding is that money laundering is making illegal/criminal/dodgy cash, appear legitimate.


The background to this is quite innocent. In theory, if a business, which has cash, but is charged bank charges to lodge it, were to find a work around, where it was lodged to a private account and a cheque written and lodged back to the business.

I imagine 5000 euro CASH would cost maybe 25 euro in most banks fees, but a cheque may only cost one euro in fees.

Is there a definition in Irish law for money laundering?

I have a 20 euro bet on this

Thanks all.

NoQuarter

Read Part 2 of this Act:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0006/index.html

Robbo

And all I can think of is the scene in Office Space where they have to look up Money Laundering in the dictionary.

In the example given, the origins of the money are being concealed so it could certainly be viewed as money laundering.

ScouseMouse

Robbo wrote: »

And all I can think of is the scene in Office Space where they have to look up Money Laundering in the dictionary.

In the example given, the origins of the money are being concealed so it could certainly be viewed as money laundering.

Thats a fair point. But the idea in this example is that there would be no attempt to hide where it would come from. The example is purely a theoretical method of lodging cash in such a way as to be as efficient as possible in paying bank charges.

Cash is expensive to process and any banks I have looked at seem to charge 50c per 100 euro. So, 5 thousand cash would be 25 euro. But a cheque for 5000 euro would be much more bank-charge friendly at about a euro.

Thats a lot of money!

I think I have enough to win this argument with my buddy. LOL

Robbo

superscouse wrote: »

Thats a fair point. But the idea in this example is that there would be no attempt to hide where it would come from. The example is purely a theoretical method of lodging cash in such a way as to be as efficient as possible in paying bank charges.

Cash is expensive to process and any banks I have looked at seem to charge 50c per 100 euro. So, 5 thousand cash would be 25 euro. But a cheque for 5000 euro would be much more bank-charge friendly at about a euro.

Thats a lot of money!

I think I have enough to win this argument with my buddy. LOL

Also, the Taxman may not look too favourably on such an arrangement.

On the other hand, I'll happily accept my cut of the winning bet in cash

Valetta

I don't think the scenario as outlined could in any way be construed as money laundering.

Businesses carry out this sort of transaction on a frequent basis.

I recently cashed a cheque with my local pub for 2k. It suited the pub and saved me a trip to the bank. The pub's bank statement will still show the same amount of funds being lodged.

Once the source of the money is apparent, and that amount is lodged, whether by cheque or in cash then I don't see the problem.

I would have thought that lodging a large amount of cash to a private account would incur the same charges, rendering the scheme pointless.

ScouseMouse

Robbo wrote: »

Also, the Taxman may not look too favourably on such an arrangement.

On the other hand, I'll happily accept my cut of the winning bet in cash

In what way would the taxman be concerned? There would be no benefit to anyone except a lower bank charges bill.

Its the bank that will not like it. They are not getting as much as they would have got.

davo2001

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3A+money+laundering

NoQuarter

davo2001 wrote: »

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3A+money+laundering

The Irish law definitions, which is what the OP asked for, can differ wildly from any normal understanding of the word!

ScouseMouse

I actually do have a shop and this argument was with a friend. I agree with the other poster mentioning the pub. I pay 5 numbers to lotto winners as it "gets rid" of cash. Any money over paid comes back to me by EFT. Thats a huge saving.

I think my buddy is wrong and this kinda confirms it.

doublej

Avoiding Bank Cash Handling fees is not evasion, nor is it money laundering as understood by the Irish Statute.
It is a legitimate attempt to avoid incurring a commercial expense and is not to be seen as having any criminal intent.
However, if the source of the money is from an illegal activity or if the purpose of attempting to use a personal account is to suppress or avoid details of sales from a business then crimes have been committed.
As mentioned, many cash businesses use credit unions, post offices and personal accounts to reduce their fees by lodging cash and receiving Drafts or Credit Transfers; they also fill their ATM's and pay suppliers with cash rather than cheque. As long as there is a clear paper trail that shows the business is accounting for its sales, Revenue will accept the circuitous route. Of course if the business avoids the Fees, the savings become part( hopefully) of the profit and will be taxable( as against Fees which are tax deductible!
Enjoy your winnings Superscouse!

johnnyskeleton

superscouse wrote: »

Hiya folks.

I am in an argument with someone and was wondering if anyone has an opinion.

My uneducated understanding is that money laundering is making illegal/criminal/dodgy cash, appear legitimate.


The background to this is quite innocent. In theory, if a business, which has cash, but is charged bank charges to lodge it, were to find a work around, where it was lodged to a private account and a cheque written and lodged back to the business.

I imagine 5000 euro CASH would cost maybe 25 euro in most banks fees, but a cheque may only cost one euro in fees.

Is there a definition in Irish law for money laundering?

I have a 20 euro bet on this

Thanks all.

So long as it is not done to avoid tax or the business being for some other illegal activity there is nothing wrong with using a personal bank account to lodge cash and then draw it out as a cheque.

Could be company problems if the business is a LTD. Apart from anything else, it would be bad accountancy to put earnings through a personal account before lodging to the business ac