Bekele announces Marathon Debut

ecoli

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kenenisa-bekele-marathon-debut-paris-120122377--spt.html

Very sorry to see this as there was a great marketing chance for the sport to actually provide an interesting head to head element outside of the normal chasing fast times.

baza1976

there was a great marketing chance for the sport to actually provide an interesting head to head element outside of the normal chasing fast times.[/quote]

Not sure what you mean ^^

drquirky

baza1976 wrote: »

there was a great marketing chance for the sport to actually provide an interesting head to head element outside of the normal chasing fast times.

Not sure what you mean ^^[/QUOTE]

The Farah vs. Bekele on their debuts angle in London would have been good. Seems like he's ducking most of the big boys by choosing Parius. probably smart though as will allow him to debut w/ limited pressure.

ecoli

drquirky wrote: »

Not sure what you mean ^^

The Farah vs. Bekele on their debuts angle in London would have been good. Seems like he's ducking most of the big boys by choosing Parius. probably smart though as will allow him to debut w/ limited pressure.[/QUOTE]

Exactly the current WR holder for 5k and 10k vs the current world and Olympic champion for those events head to head in their debut, couple this with the exciting finish to the GNR. I would imagine the competition is not the main factor here and the issue is appearance fee. Bekele has already stated that he will not kill himself for pittance so I would imagine the stumbling block is either London marathon low balling his appearance fee (possibly to benefit Farah) or Bekele himself wanting an exorbitant fee.

Either way it is a wasted opportunity given that these are among two of the most anticipated Marathon debuts in the last 5 years

maryishairy

It's his debut over the distance and nobody can forsee how he will cope with the full 26.2 mile distance so going to Paris (a relatively low key event) without the added pressure of a big "head to head" with Mo Farah is a wise move IMO. There's also the reported $250,000 appearance money. That sort of money can usually sway decisions too.

ecoli

maryishairy wrote: »

It's his debut over the distance and nobody can forsee how he will cope with the full 26.2 mile distance so going to Paris (a relatively low key event) without the added pressure of a big "head to head" with Mo Farah is a wise move IMO. There's also the reported $250,000 appearance money. That sort of money can usually sway decisions too.

Not when you see a number of the top names in London taking up to double that (Farah picked up 3 times that last year for running half and this year's full)

maryishairy

ecoli wrote: »

Not when you see a number of the top names in London taking up to double that (Farah picked up 3 times that last year for running half and this year's full)

Yeah, I read about some of those figures too Ecoli but I'm not sure they're true figures. Farah was reportedly getting £750,000 for appearances in 2013 & 2014. More trustworthy news agencies had the figure at £450,000.

ecoli

maryishairy wrote: »

Yeah, I read about some of those figures too Ecoli but I'm not sure they're true figures. Farah was reportedly getting £750,000 for appearances in 2013 & 2014. More trustworthy news agencies had the figure at £450,000.

Through but from what I read about some of the figures batted around for the other runners - the likes of Kipsang, Mutai etc. (before the announcement of Farah in the race) wouldn't seem out of the realms of possibility (ill see if I can dig out the articles)

morceli

I'm sure in Paris he will have his pick of pacemakers and a lot more control over race day just like haile in berlin.
The head to head between farah and bekele is over rated and would prob be a let down. That said the great north run was prob my race of the year last year but over the Marathon it may just be them battling for minor places.

ecoli

morceli wrote: »

I'm sure in Paris he will have his pick of pacemakers and a lot more control over race day just like haile in berlin.
The head to head between farah and bekele is over rated and would prob be a let down. That said the great north run was prob my race of the year last year but over the Marathon it may just be them battling for minor places.

Is that not more of a reason. Gives the general public who are watching for Mo an insight into just how good the Kipsang and Mutai's of this world really are

woodchopper

Alberto Salazar has not a clue when it comes to training Mo Farah to run a 2.03-4 marathon. The only coach out there who can is Renato Canova and perhaps Claudio who in reality just follows Renato's methodology. This supposed head to head dual between Mo and Bekele would end up been a battle for 4th and 5th place most likely. G. Mutai, E. Mutai. Moses Mosop, Wilson Kipsang, Dennis Kimetto. Abel Kirui who is running Toyko, Eluid Kipchoge Kebebe, Stanley Biwott would all slaughter Bekele over the marathon distance. Farah could however win in Rio if its very hot and tactical as he is flawless in that respect. No athlete has ever had a range from 1500- marathon at a world class level.

drquirky

woodchopper wrote: »

This supposed head to head dual between Mo and Bekele would end up been a battle for 4th and 5th place most likely. G. Mutai, E. Mutai. Moses Mosop, Wilson Kipsang, Dennis Kimetto. Abel Kirui who is running Toyko, Eluid Kipchoge Kebebe, Stanley Biwott would all slaughter Bekele over the marathon distance.

Agreed w/ all that WC. Maybe you could contact Bekele about training him yourself? :D:D

Pherekydes

woodchopper wrote: »

No athlete has ever had a range from 1500- marathon at a world class level.

Haile ran 3:31.75 for 1500m indoors and was world indoor champion.

If Kenenisa and Mo run a half-decent marathon then we'll have 3 in recent times.

rom

woodchopper wrote: »

No athlete has ever had a range from 1500- marathon at a world class level.

Haile ?

morceli

Pherekydes wrote: »

Haile ran 3:31.75 for 1500m indoors and was world indoor champion.

If Kenenisa and Mo run a half-decent marathon then we'll have 3 in recent times.

Lasse Viren wasnt bad either in his day, 2 mile world records Olympic 5k and 5th in marathon the next day

woodchopper

Pherekydes wrote: »

Haile ran 3:31.75 for 1500m indoors and was world indoor champion.

If Kenenisa and Mo run a half-decent marathon then we'll have 3 in recent times.

Big difference between a 3.32 and a 3.28. Also Haile didnt run that 1500 a couple of months before his world record . In fact he took a couple of attempts to achieve success at the marathon. Like I said Mo is a danger in Rio but this head to head dual with Bekele in London is all nonsense as they would be out the back when Kipsang or Mutai put the boot down at mile 20 having already run the first 20 miles at 2.05 pace!

woodchopper

drquirky wrote: »

Agreed w/ all that WC. Maybe you could contact Bekele about training him yourself? :D:D

I could coach Bekele to a 2.05, high 2.04 at best but I think his best days are gone to be honest. Hermens wont come to me however!

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

Big difference between a 3.32 and a 3.28. Also Haile didnt run that 1500 a couple of months before his world record . In fact he took a couple of attempts to achieve success at the marathon. Like I said Mo is a danger in Rio but this head to head dual with Bekele in London is all nonsense as they would be out the back when Kipsang or Mutai put the boot down at mile 20 having already run the first 20 miles at 2.05 pace!

No one denying this but the general public has no comprehension of the difference between a sub 2.04 and a sub 2.07, to them its just an arbitrary number however my previous point was putting well known faces in to create an understand of the level these athletes are performing at.

TRR

woodchopper wrote: »

Alberto Salazar has not a clue when it comes to training Mo Farah to run a 2.03-4 marathon. The only coach out there who can is Renato Canova and perhaps Claudio who in reality just follows Renato's methodology. This supposed head to head dual between Mo and Bekele would end up been a battle for 4th and 5th place most likely. G. Mutai, E. Mutai. Moses Mosop, Wilson Kipsang, Dennis Kimetto. Abel Kirui who is running Toyko, Eluid Kipchoge Kebebe, Stanley Biwott would all slaughter Bekele over the marathon distance. Farah could however win in Rio if its very hot and tactical as he is flawless in that respect. No athlete has ever had a range from 1500- marathon at a world class level.

Yeah past world record holder at 10k and marathon hasn't a clue how to train double Olympic champion. Pity we don't know your real coaching credentials

woodchopper

ecoli wrote: »

No one denying this but the general public has no comprehension of the difference between a sub 2.04 and a sub 2.07, to them its just an arbitrary number however my previous point was putting well known faces in to create an understand of the level these athletes are performing at.

Ah here your changing the goalposts of your argument after Morceli like myself pointed out that there are bigger boys out in the marathon world. Your original OP was based on how it was a missed chance to have this head to head clash when in reality it was never going to be a head to head clash.

woodchopper

TRR wrote: »

Yeah past world record holder at 10k and marathon hasn't a clue how to train double Olympic champion. Pity we don't know your real coaching credentials

Perhaps you should examine Salazar's success in coaching the marathon with other athletes before you post your coveted contributions. Dan Browne, Kara Goucher, Ritz have all failed to live up to expectations over 26.2 mile. Under your logic Renato Canova should not be allowed to coach because he didnt run the world record!

TRR

woodchopper wrote: »

Perhaps you should examine Salazar's success in coaching the marathon with other athletes before you post your coveted contributions. Dan Browne, Kara Goucher, Ritz have all failed to live up to expectations over 26.2 mile. Under your logic Renato Canova should not be allowed to coach because he didnt run the world record!

My "coveted contributions" ????

I don't think I ever said your (apparent) buddy Canova should not be allowed coach! The athletes you mention above are not in the same league as Farah. Having said that irrespective of coaching I can't see him having a massive impact on the marathon. In hindsight I think I also said he wouldn't win an Olympic medal so what do I know

Getting back to your "I could coach Bekele to a 2.04-5" comment. Have you ever trained/coached anyone of note that we might know? Just wondering do you have the stats to backup the bluster?

TFBubendorfer

TRR wrote: »

Yeah past world record holder at 10k and marathon hasn't a clue how to train double Olympic champion.

Salazar was never a world record holder

woodchopper

TRR wrote: »

Getting back to your "I could coach Bekele to a 2.04-5" comment. Have you ever trained/coached anyone of note that we might know? Just wondering do you have the stats to backup the bluster?

If you want I can send you a programme for Rotterdam to ensure you will beat Ecoli in your head to head dual. Although if he keeps doing his long runs at 7.30 pace I reckon you will manage it without my assistance!

morceli

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Salazar was never a world record holder

Well for a few hours he nearly was , bloody short courses. He was ranked No 1 in the world a number of time for Marathon and 10k and not bad over XC so i'd be safe in saying that he might know a bit about distance running.

Hard to compare Renato and Salazar as they are working with runners from different background. Wonder how the Kanyans would have done had they been coached by Alberto. Working with a deeper talent pool will always result in better results.

TRR

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Salazar was never a world record holder

my bad, I knew he had broken the marathon world record but hadn't realised the course was inaccurate also I must have been thinking of the US national 10k record or something

woodchopper wrote: »

If you want I can send you a programme for Rotterdam to ensure you will beat Ecoli in your head to head dual. Although if he keeps doing his long runs at 7.30 pace I reckon you will manage it without my assistance!

That would be much appreciated. I'm actually running London but would still be appreciated!

Stazza

Don't want to get involved in any tear-ups over who's the best coach and all that stuff. That said, I'm a fan of Canova's approach. He's revolutionised marathon running. And just to put a bit of balance in all this, back in the day (you are all probably too young to know this) Al Sal was dropping out sessions like 4x5k in a tickle under 15 mins off 1k rec @80% of MP and banging out 24 milers @ 97% of mp.

TRR

Stazza wrote: »

Al Sal was dropping out sessions like 4x5k in a tickle under 15 mins off 1k rec @80% of MP and banging out 24 milers @ 97% of mp.

Yep he hammered himself. I doubt he is advocating stuff like that now though, maybe he is, I actually don't know his current philosophy on marathon running

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

If you want I can send you a programme for Rotterdam to ensure you will beat Ecoli in your head to head dual. Although if he keeps doing his long runs at 7.30 pace I reckon you will manage it without my assistance!

It's about the overall picture Woodie. Admittedly its not up to the levels of your group of sub 2.10 runners down south putting Dick, Jerry and Enda to shame

Just remember though Canova may be the greatest mortal coach not quite in the same league as God

woodchopper

ecoli wrote: »

Just remember though Canova may be the greatest mortal coach not quite in the same league as God

In the world of marathon running Renato Canova is God

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

In the world of marathon running Renato Canova is God

That leaves Ryan Hall with a philosophical conundrum. No wonder his career was stagnating his last two coaching changes have be figments of his imagination.

woodchopper

ecoli wrote: »

It's about the overall picture Woodie.

I dont think a mod should resort to name calling on a thread. My boards name is Woodchooper not Woodie. This thread has gone off topic and as such I will end my contribution.

tomdempsey200

lol

TRR

woodchopper wrote: »

ecoli wrote: »

It's about the overall picture Woodie.

I dont think a mod should resort to name calling on a thread. My boards name is Woodchooper not Woodie. This thread has gone off topic and as such I will end my contribution.

Woodie where's my marathon plan?

Up the banner

Krusty_Clown

Here's the starting line-up that Mo will face in London:

Wilson Kipsang (KEN) 2:03:23 World record-holder
Emmanuel Mutai (KEN) 2:03:52 London Marathon record-holder
Geoffrey Mutai (KEN) 2:04:15* 2013 New York Marathon champion
Ayele Abshero (ETH) 2:04:23 2012 Dubai Marathon champion
Feyisa Lilesa (ETH) 2:04:32 2011 world bronze medallist
Tsegaye Kebede (ETH) 2:04:38 2013 London Marathon champion
Stanley Biwott (KEN) 2:05:12 2012 Paris Marathon champion
Marilson dos Santos (BRA) 2:06:34 Twice New York Marathon champion
Martin Mathathi (KEN) 2:07:16 2013 Fukuoka Marathon champion
Stephen Kiprotich (UGA) 2:07:20 World and Olympic marathon champion
Samuel Tsegay (ERI) 2:07:28
Mustapha El Aziz (MAR) 2:07:55
Amanuel Mesel (ERI) 2:08:17
Scott Overall (GBR) 2:10:55
Ryan Vail (USA) 2:11:45
Mo Farah (GBR) Debut, world and Olympic 5000m & 10,000m champion
Ibrahim Jeilan (ETH) Debut, 2011 world 10,000m champion
Chris Thompson (GBR) Debut
Ben Livesey (GBR) Debut

Not the easy field that I figured he'd be facing.

tomdempsey200

straight in at the deep end for mo here...


if it's very fast he loses i reckon

ecoli

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

straight in at the deep end for mo here...


if it's very fast he loses i reckon

I don't think there is a case for him being in with a chance of winning.

His races on track have been tactical affairs in probably the weakest era of 10k running in the last 20 years. All top 10k talent has been moving to the Marathon over the last 10 years and it is showing in the results.

Top 5 would be a remarkable result I feel but ultimately 2.06-2.07 range at best which won't cut it with the top lads. Similar with Jelian will be interested in his debut being a similar runner to Mo

overpronator

:eek:

Thats some field. If those guys go out as fast as they're capable of with the pacers (and there's no reason to think they wont) then we will really see what Farah is made of, can see him getting burnt.

ecoli

overpronator wrote: »

:eek:

Thats some field. If those guys go out as fast as they're capable of with the pacers (and there's no reason to think they wont) then we will really see what Farah is made of. Exciting.

Given the carnage of last year I reckon things may be a little more sensible regarding paces. Mind you in one sense it was completely enthralling to watch as a fan.

Can see Farah being hanging with the guys until the usual mid race (25/30k) 5k surge which usually makes or breaks most of the lead pack

tomdempsey200

will they be afraid of him or would he be able to slow it down as he does on the track?

i think not

surely these fast guys will have seen what's happened to farahs opponents on the track and make it fast

robinph

Wasn't expecting him to be in with a hope of winning previously, no change to my view of it now. His only hope of being with a chance is if all of the top 6/7 of those guys decide to go for a stroll around London instead.

I guess if it's every man for himself amongst those guys he may stand a chance of being in the mix and could potentially still have a bit of a sprint left at the end to get a minor place. It only needs a couple of them to work together though and he'll be left behind by the winner, although probably still then coming through at the end to grab a couple of places.

I do expect to see TRR in the lead at 200m from the start line though.

Sacksian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Here's the starting line-up that Mo will face in London:

This looks like an insanely strong field to me - I'd be interested to see any other examples of fields of similar depth?

Also, if the field is this strong - does it lend itself to a more tactical race (within reason) rather than just slogging it out?

Looking like a great race anyway.

ecoli

Sacksian wrote: »

This looks like an insanely strong field to me - I'd be interested to see any other examples of fields of similar depth?

Also, if the field is this strong - does it lend itself to a more tactical race (within reason) rather than just slogging it out?

Looking like a great race anyway.

Only one to come close is London last year

http://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/news-and-media/news-and-media/press-release-25-01-13-best-ever-field-assembled-2/

Since taking over from Bedford, Brasher has been striving to assemble the top marathon runners in the world in a competitive setting as opposed to the likes of Berlin (usually set up as a time trial for one particular runner)

It backfired for the race organizers however with so many top class talent many of which in touching distance of WR meant that each runner was doing their best to try take the win and WR and ultimately the suicidal pace of the first half broke everyone and ended up coming down to a who died the least scenario. Hugely entertaining but the organizers wanted to take the record

I don't think any race has the fast course, history and the financial backing to compete in this regards

wrstan

Mark Steinle, the last Briton to break 2:10, said on marathontalk a couple weeks ago, that there was no chance of Mo making the podium.

Great interview by the way, available at: http://www.marathontalk.com/podcast/episode_205_mark_steinle.php

TRR

robinph wrote: »

I do expect to see TRR in the lead at 200m from the start line though.

Thanks Robin, that bastard KC didn't mention me. Yes I hope to build up a big lead in the first 200 metres and then hope to defend it for the next 26 miles.

rainbow kirby

Would pay good money to see Jeilan get Farah in a sprint finish.

Unlikely though that either of them will be really at the pointy end of things.