soon to be law graduate.Hope fading..

pipkin12

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas as to where to look for career opportunities upon graduating with a law degree. Didnt secure a traineeship this year, tbh really not too interested in a corporate one anyway however it seems like i have to sink another 4/5k into my education in order to find any kind of job. Considering doing the New York bar in order to step out of the same boat all the rest of us are in with regards to going for the FE1s etc etc. Any advice would be appreciated.

chops018

Well what do you want to do?

You can't just expect to graduate and be handed a job, very few are, if you want to be a Solicitor then you may get studying and do the FE1's. If you can inbetween then start getting work experience with a firm, they may offer you a traineeship, if not, then you will have gained invaluable experience.

If it's going down the bar then start preparing for the KI's entrance exams and start buttering up potential Master's.

If you're just doing the NY bar just to do it then I wouldn't recommend it. Do you really want to do it and work over there at it and try do well?

Maybe look into a post grad in a different area if you're thinking of going in another direction.. if you graduate with a good degree there should be no problem getting in, finances would more than likely be the only stumbling block.

Maybe take a year out, just do some travelling or work at home somewhere and try and save money. Maybe try to get doing one day a week free work experience in a local firm to get an insight into things.

Be aware that academic law is a lot different to procedural law.

Mr. Incognito

New York Bar is a waste of time and money. no one ever gets a job out of it.

Do internships in the firm's. Applications start about now and lead to training contracts

pipkin12

I in no way "expect to be handed a job." And to be honest I find that quite a rude statement. I'm simply looking for input about things I might not have thought of.

Having done a 4 month internship in a large firm I got an interview for a contract which didnt work out, went on to apply for the big firms this time round and got nothing back so I am looking outside that box for the time being. Simply looking at NY as a chance to do something different however financing anything straight after college is always a challenge.

Thanks for the replies.

chops018

pipkin12 wrote: »

I in no way "expect to be handed a job." And to be honest I find that quite a rude statement.

I got the vibe that you were thinking along those lines from your OP, and, to be honest, a lot of graduates do come out of college with a sense of entitlement. I had it myself, fortunately it was knocked out of me after a few months. So I'm just going on experience and I wasn't trying to be rude, it's great that you don't have such a sense of entitlement unlike a lot of others these days.

Anyway I listed above what your obvious options are upon graduating. There may be plenty more that I could be missing, such as a postgrad in Primary Teaching part time through Hibernia. Maybe someone else could give their input as to other options. It's up to you as to what you want to do, be it stick to law, or go in another direction. To be honest a law degree is a bit limited in my opinion. You could apply to graduate programs in banks and other sectors either.

Whatever you choose I wish you luck, you do have options. Be prepared to work hard and for feck all for a while if you go the law route anyway, unless you get lucky.

Also, what's this other 4/5k your talking about sinking into your education in order to find a job? A Master's Degree or what?

EDIT: With regard you applying to the big firms, you haven't graduated yet, yes they do take on final year students. But, there are usually over 100 applicants every year. A lot with 1st Class Honours Degree's and Master's, with all the FE1's completed and experience and other things that may help them - having lived abroad for a year with international legal work experience. Don't fret over that, keep applying if you do want to get in the top 5, in the meantime get out into the world, be it here or abroad and get yourself some experience.. It's is invaluable, better than any Degree.

pipkin12

chops018 wrote: »

I got the vibe that you were thinking along those lines from your OP, and, to be honest, a lot of graduates do come out of college with a sense of entitlement. I had it myself, fortunately it was knocked out of me after a few months. So I'm just going on experience and I wasn't trying to be rude, it's great that you don't have such a sense of entitlement unlike a lot of others these days.

Anyway I listed above what your obvious options are upon graduating. There may be plenty more that I could be missing, so someone else could give their input. It's up to you as to what you want to do, be it stick to law, or go in another direction. To be honest a law degree is a bit limited in my opinion. You could apply to graduate programs in banks and other sectors either.

Whatever you choose I wish you luck, you do have options. Be prepared to work hard and for feck all for a while if you go the law route anyway, unless you get lucky.

Thanks for that, I really appreciate the input. I think my problem is I'm experiencing some level of terror in finding something other than law to pursue. Probably like you said,like a lot of other people are aswel. The law degree is limited alright and it's not too well publicised what you could do instead. Hence my issue I guess. Anyway thanks for your help

NoQuarter

pipkin12 wrote: »

it seems like i have to sink another 4/5k into my education in order to find any kind of job..

If you cant get into the top firms you can start by trebling that figure im afraid.

What do you want to do exactly? have you any idea?

Alpha Fenian

I graduated last year and I am studying for the FE1s since October last.

The effort to become a solicitor is really hard and I'm thinking is it really worth it at the end of the day. I'm thinking of quitting at this point considering that I will have to save up 14 grand or so if I pass the exams and then another 2 years of training with possibly no job prospects.

Law has an unwarranted level of prestige associated with it. There's probably big opportunities for the very few but certainly not for the many.

pipkin12

NoQuarter wrote: »

If you cant get into the top firms you can start by trebling that figure im afraid.

What do you want to do exactly? have you any idea?

Ive been looking to human rights and stuff like that. Ive applied for some voluntary based internships for the coming semester. It appears that if I wanted to go human rights I'd have to get qualified first anyway and it seems like the majority of traineeships are corporate. Amnesty and big branches like that mainly look for people with a masters qualification too...

chops018

pipkin12 wrote: »

Thanks for that, I really appreciate the input. I think my problem is I'm experiencing some level of terror in finding something other than law to pursue. Probably like you said,like a lot of other people are aswel. The law degree is limited alright and it's not too well publicised what you could do instead. Hence my issue I guess. Anyway thanks for your help

No problem. I edited my post a bit to tackle a few other things for graduates, and what you can expect from applying to the top 5. Personally I wouldn't want to work for the top 5. Apart from them being on good money and having everything paid for it seems they sometimes have no life. Sounds very messy, their apprentices barley see the inside of a court room, and they would very regularly be in well past 5pm.

Medium sized firm would be a lot better, you would get a lot more experience in all aspects.. although the pay probably won't be near as good.

The above regarding the top 5 is just hear-say that I've heard through the grapevine, I stand corrected if I'm totally wrong.

pipkin12

Alpha Fenian wrote: »

I graduated last year and I am studying for the FE1s since October last.

The effort to become a solicitor is really hard and I'm thinking is it really worth it at the end of the day. I'm thinking of quitting at this point considering that I will have to save up 14 grand or so if I pass the exams and then another 2 years of training with possibly no job prospects.

Law has an unwarranted level of prestige associated with it. There's probably big opportunities for the very few but certainly not for the many.

This is exactly what I am afraid of!! Sorry to hear you're in this position. Its an awful limbo I reckon....

Alpha Fenian

pipkin12 wrote: »

This is exactly what I am afraid of!! Sorry to hear you're in this position. Its an awful limbo I reckon....

It's just a matter of biting the bullet and facing up to reality. If you're going to make a living at law in Ireland you would want to be very good at it. The opportunities are just not there anymore.

NoQuarter

pipkin12 wrote: »

Ive been looking to human rights and stuff like that. Ive applied for some voluntary based internships for the coming semester. It appears that if I wanted to go human rights I'd have to get qualified first anyway and it seems like the majority of traineeships are corporate. Amnesty and big branches like that mainly look for people with a masters qualification too...

Well one option could be to do the masters and do the part time kings inns course during that time. At the end of that you're a qualified lawyer and are ready to go into Human Rights. It's the quicker way for sure but, as you know, the expense is crazy. You're talking 20k to do that not including any grants you might get. But there's not many cheaper paths. It's certainly going to cost another 12k to become a qualified lawyer, whether it's a barrister or a solicitor.

At least you arent dependant on a firm taking you on to get qualified at the bar.

pipkin12

chops018 wrote: »

No problem. I edited my post a bit to tackle a few other things for graduates, and what you can expect from applying to the top 5. Personally I wouldn't want to work for the top 5. Apart from them being on good money and having everything paid for it seems they sometimes have no life. Sounds very messy, their apprentices barley see the inside of a court room, and they would very regularly be in well past 5pm.

Medium sized firm would be a lot better, you would get a lot more experience in all aspects.. although the pay probably won't be near as good.

The above regarding the top 5 is just hear-say that I've heard through the grapevine, I stand corrected if I'm totally wrong.

Haha not wrong...I did the 4 months in one of said top 5. I swore then and there corporate law in that environment is not for me. At all....I dont have the appropriate aptitude or attitude for it I'd say. Money was good though.
The only issue is trying to locate the mid size firms that take trainees. They somewhat get drowned out by the advertising coming from the big 5..

pipkin12

Alpha Fenian wrote: »

It's just a matter of biting the bullet and facing up to reality. If you're going to make a living at law in Ireland you would want to be very good at it. The opportunities are just not there anymore.

This is true. Just wondering if its a bullet I can avoid first by locating other options ...

NoQuarter

Alpha Fenian wrote: »

It's just a matter of biting the bullet and facing up to reality. If you're going to make a living at law in Ireland you would want to be very good at it. The opportunities are just not there anymore.

I dont think that's it. I think, rather, you need to set yourself apart from the competition. I mean, a law degree and fe-1s? Forget it! They are ten-a-penny nowadays.

There are some really really good post-grads out there, and not just in the colleges, look elsewhere too.

pipkin12

NoQuarter wrote: »

Well one option could be to do the masters and do the part time kings inns course during that time. At the end of that you're a qualified lawyer and are ready to go into Human Rights. It's the quicker way for sure but, as you know, the expense is crazy. You're talking 20k to do that not including any grants you might get. But there's not many cheaper paths. It's certainly going to cost another 12k to become a qualified lawyer, whether it's a barrister or a solicitor.

At least you arent dependant on a firm taking you on to get qualified at the bar.

I hadn't thought of that. Thanks. But yes once again cash is king... I think youre probably right in that its going to cost a hell of a lot more than originally anticipated if I'm going to pursue it, in which case it just proves I'd better be pretty damn sure about it...

Alpha Fenian

NoQuarter wrote: »

I dont think that's it. I think, rather, you need to set yourself apart from the competition. I mean, a law degree and fe-1s? Forget it! They are ten-a-penny nowadays.

There are some really really good post-grads out there, and not just in the colleges, look elsewhere too.

I agree but how many years are you willing to give before you get a return or at least get the money back which you invested?

NoQuarter

pipkin12 wrote: »

I hadn't thought of that. Thanks. But yes once again cash is king... I think youre probably right in that its going to cost a hell of a lot more than originally anticipated if I'm going to pursue it, in which case it just proves I'd better be pretty damn sure about it...

For what it's worth, I wasn't sure about my choice until I went to the King's Inns and started to love it only then.

NoQuarter

Alpha Fenian wrote: »

I agree but how many years are you willing to give before you get a return or at least get the money back which you invested?

Hrmm, well, it will take years anyway, that's for sure. As difficult as it is, I would be doing a post-grad whilst doing fe1s. They take around 2 years to do anyway on average.

chops018

Plus, it's not as bad as it used to be. There is a lot more opportunity in law these days than there was. Even look at the Law Society website and you will see a lot more vacancies being advertised than there now than there was 3 years ago.

I graduated my Degree in 2009 there was nothing to be seen, I couldn't even get in anywhere working for free. A year later I did a Master's and graduated that in 2012. Went tackling the FE1's and working part time in retail, which are extremely tough, I'm at them a year and a half and have one left, so the light is at the end of the tunnel. I did a few months for free in a firm near me and I'm now doing a paid internship, although it is very little.

So here's hoping that all leads to an apprenticeship for me, be it with the firm I'm in now, or elsewhere.

I have heard people saying to me that I'm studying/working for little money for ages and that 10-15 years ago I'd have got an apprenticeship straight away after college. But the way I look at it is that I'm still very young, and I'm on the track, even if it is a slow one, and if the above did happen 10-15 years ago then I could have no job becuase of the recession and be in debt for a mortgage, car loan, wife, kids etc etc.

Try not to panic.. there is options, experience is key in my opinion anyway.

pipkin12

NoQuarter wrote: »

For what it's worth, I wasn't sure about my choice until I went to the King's Inns and started to love it only then.

Thats pretty helpful. I sort of fell into law in the first place and am now wondering if I have enough passion for it to follow through with it as a career. I guess we only know once we try. I guess I can't exactly sit from the sidelines trying to figure it out either though.

Alpha Fenian

NoQuarter wrote: »

Hrmm, well, it will take years anyway, that's for sure. As difficult as it is, I would be doing a post-grad whilst doing fe1s. They take around 2 years to do anyway on average.

My reason for going to college is to be financially better off. I don't see the reason for doing course after course just to get a title because that's what it is for most people- a title which which doesn't give much of a return.

NoQuarter

pipkin12 wrote: »

Thats pretty helpful. I sort of fell into law in the first place and am now wondering if I have enough passion for it to follow through with it as a career. I guess we only know once we try. I guess I can't exactly sit from the sidelines trying to figure it out either though.

I'm in the "cant remember why I chose law" camp. If your heart isnt set on being a solicitor, maybe look at going the King's Inn route. I'm not saying do it to become a barrister, but rather, it will get you the lawyer qualification quicker and that gives you options. But make sure you are looking for that extra something to set you apart. I've said it before but there are niche areas in Ireland that need lawyers and the market is not overcrowded. One example is aviation finance.

pipkin12

chops018 wrote: »

Plus, it's not as bad as it used to be. There is a lot more opportunity in law these days than there was. Even look at the Law Society website and you will see a lot more vacancies being advertised than there now than there was 3 years ago.

I graduated my Degree in 2009 there was nothing to be seen, I couldn't even get in anywhere working for free. A year later I did a Master's and graduated that in 2012. Went tackling the FE1's and working part time in retail, which are extremely tough, I'm at them a year and a half and have one left, so the light is at the end of the tunnel. I did a few months for free in a firm near me and I'm now doing a paid internship, although it is very little.

So here's hoping that all leads to an apprenticeship for me, be it with the firm I'm in now, or elsewhere.

I have heard people saying to me that I'm studying/working for little money for ages and that 10-15 years ago I'd have got an apprenticeship straight away after college. But the way I look at it is that I'm still very young, and I'm on the track, even if it is a slow one, and if the above did happen 10-15 years ago then I could have no job becuase of the recession and be in debt for a mortgage, car loan, wife, kids etc etc.

Try not to panic.. there is options, experience is key in my opinion anyway.

I'd heard the FE1s were tricky but I think I have sorely underestimated how long they actually take to get through,at least according to this thread! I suppose its better to have all the info though. In terms of being on the track,better a slow one than none at all I guess. Seems to be that everything is going to he extremely competitive these days anyways.

NoQuarter

Alpha Fenian wrote: »

My reason for going to college is to be financially better off. I don't see the reason for doing course after course just to get a title because that's what it is for most people- a title which which doesn't give much of a return.

I agree and I want to be financially better off too. The reality is however, you have chosen law, the market is flooded and you simply need to speculate to accumulate.

If you're doing fe1s now you may be on social welfare. If you are, there are schemes out there with fantastic courses. Just look at skillsnet.

pipkin12

The reason I was looking at new York was to do something other than the FE1s. A challenge in itself but something new and stuff I haven't learned before. With the prep course its just as much money as a masters but it is a qualification, however now youve mentioned its of relatively little value here I would probably be better off doing a post grad maybe?

chops018

pipkin12 wrote: »

I'd heard the FE1s were tricky but I think I have sorely underestimated how long they actually take to get through,at least according to this thread! I suppose its better to have all the info though. In terms of being on the track,better a slow one than none at all I guess. Seems to be that everything is going to he extremely competitive these days anyways.

The FE1's are horrible. Nearly everyone I know who does them underestimates the first set.

On average it seems to take most people 3-4 sittings to get them all. Although plenty do get them in 2 sittings.

Since I was 17 and we started talking about career's in school I always said Law or else a secondary school teacher. I got law, and loved it academically. It is a lot different the working side of it though. I like some parts, but of course there is parts I don't like. I want to try make a career out of it after putting so many years in already.

I sometimes think maybe it would have been easier if I got secondary teaching instead but I know plenty of teachers who are qualifying or are qualified and their work sounds just as hard and they don't have it any easier. I think most professions are like that these days.

Alpha Fenian

NoQuarter wrote: »

I agree and I want to be financially better off too. The reality is however, you have chosen law, the market is flooded and you simply need to speculate to accumulate.

If you're doing fe1s now you may be on social welfare. If you are, there are schemes out there with fantastic courses. Just look at skillsnet.

No Im not ha ha. I work in a non skilled job non law related. It speaks volumes if someone is on welfare and studying for the FE1s at the same time.

NoQuarter

pipkin12 wrote: »

The reason I was looking at new York was to do something other than the FE1s. A challenge in itself but something new and stuff I haven't learned before. With the prep course its just as much money as a masters but it is a qualification, however now youve mentioned its of relatively little value here I would probably be better off doing a post grad maybe?

Unless you plan on working in NYC and have some kind of plan or some connection to set you ahead of the thousands of US candidates with JD's then I would say run a mile from it.

It's certainly useless over here.

My advice is to become a qualified lawyer, find a niche area and focus on it. You can do both of them simultaneously. Then you will start seeing a return. But it will take years from where you are now, no way around it unless you get a training contract with the top firms.

NoQuarter

Alpha Fenian wrote: »

No Im not ha ha. I work in a non skilled job non law related. It speaks volumes if someone is on welfare and studying for the FE1s at the same time.

I'd imagine a whole lot are. The skillsnet courses are cheap enough, I paid about 3k for my post grad 2 year diploma.

extra gravy

I'm in the same boat OP. Have been looking at doing one of the Law Society diplomas in conjunction with some work experience http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Diplomas-CMS/ Hard to find feedback on these though so not sure if it's a good idea or not. Looking at getting into intellectual and industrial property area myself but not sure if that will be possible without qualifying as a solicitor.

pipkin12

NoQuarter wrote: »

Unless you plan on working in NYC and have some kind of plan or some connection to set you ahead of the thousands of US candidates with JD's then I would say run a mile from it.

It's certainly useless over here.

My advice is to become a qualified lawyer, find a niche area and focus on it. You can do both of them simultaneously. Then you will start seeing a return. But it will take years from where you are now, no way around it unless you get a training contract with the top firms.

Siiiigh...consider me suitably disillusioned haha. Maybe I'll just go sell cakes.I know the basics of incorporating a company...but on a serious note I appreciate the advice.its really helpful

pipkin12

extra gravy wrote: »

I'm in the same boat OP. Have been looking at doing one of the Law Society diplomas in conjunction with some work experience http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Diplomas-CMS/ Hard to find feedback on these though so not sure if it's a good idea or not. Looking at getting into intellectual and industrial property area myself but not sure if that will be possible without qualifying as a solicitor.

I think its safe to say we can't do a whole bloody lot with out a)forking out 800 quids for the FE1s. spending the bones of 2 years doing said exams before C) attempting to secure that ever elusive contract......fun times ahead!

NoQuarter

extra gravy wrote: »

I'm in the same boat OP. Have been looking at doing one of the Law Society diplomas in conjunction with some work experience http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Diplomas-CMS/ Hard to find feedback on these though so not sure if it's a good idea or not. Looking at getting into intellectual and industrial property area myself but not sure if that will be possible without qualifying as a solicitor.

It's certainly possible to do the courses without being qualified. I've always said the lawsoc do great post-grads. They are all pretty relevant but you need to be careful which ones you choose. Pick something that the colleges dont teach, no point in doing the diploma in employment law for example. Not if you're looking to stand out anyway.

Do the intellectual property one and try bag some experience in a firm that does it while you're qualifying as a lawyer. Then when you qualify you are in a good position.

If you dont qualify, there are other options but they will most likely be paralegal options.

ThirdMan

I'm about as atypical as a law graduate gets. No leaving cert, criminal record, the works

I've made enquiries and technically I can become a lawyer, but I don't know whether I'll even bother trying. It feels like I could spend 5 years trying to get my foot in the the door and still fail. My biggest obstacle is trying to find a training contract. That's hard for everyone, but it's gonna be doubly hard for me.

That's why King's Inns is more appealing. I'd have to disclose my conviction and plead my case in an interview. But if I got in it's the quickest route to becoming a lawyer. Quick question though: how hard is it to find a Master? Especially considering my own circumstances? Or will I be back at square one again?

Santa Cruz

Alpha Fenian wrote: »

I graduated last year and I am studying for the FE1s since October last.

The effort to become a solicitor is really hard and I'm thinking is it really worth it at the end of the day. I'm thinking of quitting at this point considering that I will have to save up 14 grand or so if I pass the exams and then another 2 years of training with possibly no job prospects.

Law has an unwarranted level of prestige associated with it. There's probably big opportunities for the very few but certainly not for the many.

Law is always a long game. Be it Barrister or Solicitor it takes time to get established and earn decent money. My only advice is to decide which area you wish to concentrate on, Criminal, Immigration Family etc. and get stuck in

Bepolite

Sorry I have to admit I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been said: Law Exec, get in with the right firm and you'll progress through to being a solicitor, if you don't these jobs can still pay reasonably well.

One route I'm considering now the wife and I are considering sprogs.

NoQuarter

ThirdMan wrote: »

Quick question though: how hard is it to find a Master? Especially considering my own circumstances? Or will I be back at square one again?

The very least of your worries! I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, you'll be fine getting a master! getting in to the KI and getting called to the bar with a conviction will be the hard part. Depends on the conviction I suppose.

ThirdMan

NoQuarter wrote: »

The very least of your worries! I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, you'll be fine getting a master! getting in to the KI and getting called to the bar with a conviction will be the hard part. Depends on the conviction I suppose.

Cheers. It's a minor drug conviction. Personal use. €1000 fine. It was almost 10 years ago.

There's no certainties of course, but from what I gather it's not insurmountable. I'm shadowing a barrister for two days next month so I can find out a bit more about it then.

NoQuarter

ThirdMan wrote: »

Cheers. It's a minor drug conviction. Personal use. €1000 fine. It was almost 10 years ago.

There's no certainties of course, but from what I gather it's not insurmountable. I'm shadowing a barrister for two days next month so I can find out a bit more about it then.

Not too bad, certainly not insurmountable. Best of luck with it!

johnnyskeleton

NoQuarter wrote: »

One example is aviation finance.

Yeah, I hear those guys are really "taking off".

ThirdMan

NoQuarter wrote: »

Not too bad, certainly not insurmountable. Best of luck with it!

Cheers!

belinda502

I'm wondering what my options are. I qualified as a solicitor in 2008 and got let go during the downturn shortly after I qualified. Treated very badly by employer and felt very jaundiced so I left law for a few years and pursued another career also unsuccessfully.

The past few months I've been doing an ICT course in software development but despite working my ass off, failed at Christmas. I thought that if I succeeded in getting it I could maybe get into some area of intellectual property law which I did well in when I took it for PPC11. The Law Society say they're holding Skillsnet courses this year and was wondering whether these and the subsequent job placements lead anywhere or whether I should stick with IT even if I'm failing it and maybe repeat the year. There seem to be at least paid opportunities in that area

Bepolite

Stay in IT and come back into Law when things pick up / the right opportunity comes along. I know one IT barrister (IT person in a previous life) and there isn't the work out there for her to being doing it full time, but thats a very small sample.

Just my 2 cents, you have to do what you enjoy.

JTER

I agree and disagree with NoQuarter-It's tough enough getting a job in NYC but it is very doable. I would say it is no tougher than back home. When you graduate you can avail of the 12 month graduate visa. One girl I know flew out and had a job within a week, others it took 2 to 6 weeks. It took me almost 10 weeks to find the right opportunity.

NoQuarter is correct that many firms require JD's only or a US education but these aren't the firms you are approaching unless you consider doing an LLM . While it's a risk to the tune of $80,000 when u include living expense and the cost of the course it can pay off as it opens you up to 6 figure starting salaries. I would stay away from this option unless you are an exceptional student who can get hired straight off from the strength of your GPA.

Other firms will pay anywhere between 40 and 80 for a first year associate so its certainly a bit better than home and worth it for the few years experience.

There are plenty of Irish American firms which are very happy to take on Irish lawyers.

PM me if you want more information, 12 months ago I was in a similar position.

swervring

Just my 2 cents - don't put yourself under so much pressure to decide exactly what you want to do immediately. I got my LLB, went and did a masters in Criminal Justice, then worked for a few years [in an completely unrelated area] before going for Kings Inns. Granted it was more difficult to do the Entrance Exams having been out of the law for a number of years, but for myself I know I wouldn't have done very well at this type of course when I was younger.

lightspeed

Can anybody advise of how important leaving cert results are for securing traineeship?

I did all ordinary in my leaving and only got a D in ordinary maths. I soon to finish a 4 years honours degree in Business and Law.

I think i would like to study towards becoming a commercial lawyer. Im wondering if did a few years work experience and got a masters in commercial law, what are my chance of securing a traineeship? I understand the market is rather saturated but, id be happy enough to work for a low salary upon getting qualified and rake up a few years experience and then work abroad.

How likely is it that i could work 2 to 3 years experience in a law firm, pass the FE1s and a masters and still have very little hope of securing a traineeship?

Also are things getting better and what predictions would some of you make for the future?

NoQuarter

JTER wrote: »

I agree and disagree with NoQuarter-It's tough enough getting a job in NYC but it is very doable. I would say it is no tougher than back home. When you graduate you can avail of the 12 month graduate visa. One girl I know flew out and had a job within a week, others it took 2 to 6 weeks. It took me almost 10 weeks to find the right opportunity.

NoQuarter is correct that many firms require JD's only or a US education but these aren't the firms you are approaching unless you consider doing an LLM . While it's a risk to the tune of $80,000 when u include living expense and the cost of the course it can pay off as it opens you up to 6 figure starting salaries. I would stay away from this option unless you are an exceptional student who can get hired straight off from the strength of your GPA.

Other firms will pay anywhere between 40 and 80 for a first year associate so its certainly a bit better than home and worth it for the few years experience.

There are plenty of Irish American firms which are very happy to take on Irish lawyers.

PM me if you want more information, 12 months ago I was in a similar position.

Thanks for that account, interesting to hear that there are opportunities out there in the States. I have no first hand experience with trying to get a job stateside.

lightspeed wrote: »

Can anybody advise of how important leaving cert results are for securing traineeship?

I did all ordinary in my leaving and only got a D in ordinary maths. I soon to finish a 4 years honours degree in Business and Law.

I think i would like to study towards becoming a commercial lawyer. Im wondering if did a few years work experience and got a masters in commercial law, what are my chance of securing a traineeship? I understand the market is rather saturated but, id be happy enough to work for a low salary upon getting qualified and rake up a few years experience and then work abroad.

How likely is it that i could work 2 to 3 years experience in a law firm, pass the FE1s and a masters and still have very little hope of securing a traineeship?

Also are things getting better and what predictions would some of you make for the future?

They are important for the commercial firms because they get so many applicants they use the leaving cert as a way to weed out a number of applications. But I dont think many other firms look past your degree.

It's good that you know you want to be a commercial lawyer now and in my opinion, the B&L is one of the best first steps you can take. A masters in commercial law would certainly be helpful but as i've said earlier in this thread, look at other options;

Instead of paying 8k for a masters, you could pay 1.5k for this: http://www.lawsociety.ie/S14-Certificate-in-Commercial-Contracts.aspx

2.2k for this: http://www.lawsociety.ie/A13-Dip-in-Finance-Law.aspx

or 2.2k for this: http://www.lawsociety.ie/A13-Dip-in-Corporate-Law-and-Governance.aspx

They are practical courses and will stand you in very good stead if you tried to go in house for a year or two in a financial institution or a bank etc. Then with that experience, they jump to the big commercial firms is a whole lot easier. Someone with commercial experience is very attractive to them.

JTER

If you are on the fence with NYC I would recommend coming in the month of March for obvious reasons. There are plenty of Irish American dinners , talks, networking nights and general parties where you can meet many potential employers or leads.

Also if people are considering going with the NY bar courses in Ireland I would recommend negotiating a fair price with them.