long run

jimjamkk06

Hi guys I do 5.5 miles monday 6miles wednesday interval training thursday just wondering how long should my long run be on saturday I no its best to increase it by 10% every week. In running approx 10 months now . before I raced on a saturday distance 5 k sometimes 10k

Krusty_Clown

What's your goal race?
What plan are you following?

jimjamkk06

To be honest id like to do a marathon but maybe im setting my goals to high but at the moment id just like to buikd strength so that my 5kand 10k times come down. I dont really have a particular plan just two easy runs 1tempo run and speed session 5k time pb 2113 10k 4555

drquirky

jimjamkk06 wrote: »

To be honest id like to do a marathon but maybe im setting my goals to high but at the moment id just like to buikd strength so that my 5kand 10k times come down. I dont really have a particular plan just two easy runs 1tempo run and speed session 5k time pb 2113 10k 4555

Working that long run to up over 90 mins (whatever distance that covers for you) would probably do you some good. A very basic plan for 5k 10k improvement might look something like this

Sunday 90 min Long run
Monday off/ recovery run
Tuesday Intervals (10x400, 6x1000, 4x1mi etc etc) or 20 minTempo run
Weds off/recovery
Thurs 60 mins easy
Fri 30 mins recovery
Sat Parkrun/5k 10k race or tempo run

If you worked up to that plan and cycled through it for a few weeks you'd see massive improvements considering their seems to be not tons of structure in your training right now

jimjamkk06

drquirky wrote: »

Working that long run to up over 90 mins (whatever distance that covers for you) would probably do you some good. A very basic plan for 5k 10k improvement might look something like this

Sunday 90 min Long run
Monday off/ recovery runi
Tuesday Intervals (10x400, 6x1000, 4x1mi etc etc) or 20 minTempo run
Weds off/recovery
Thurs 60 mins easy
Fri 30 mins recovery
Sat Parkrun/5k 10k race or tempo run how hard should i do interval training because

If you worked up to that plan and cycled through it for a few weeks you'd see massive improvements considering their seems to be not tons of structure in your training right now

How hard should i run in interval training because that seems like alot i do 4x400m flat out sprint with 90 second break and i do be wreaked then do 10 100 meter sprints and id be wreaked

drquirky

jimjamkk06 wrote: »

How hard should i run in interval training because that seems like alot i do 4x400m flat out sprint with 90 second break and i do be wreaked then do 10 100 meter sprints and id be wreaked

Yeah flat out will work systems you don't really need for 5k/10k and tire you needlessly. Shorter reps you can do at 5k pace with decent recoveries so maybe start with 400m slow jog breaks working down to 200m slow jog recovery. Longer reps like 1000m-mile you can do at 10k pace again w decent recoveries progressing down.

The key with these intervals is to be controlled. Tempo runs also are very useful. So on these you run 20mins at around your 10mile or HM pace. So if your 5k pace is 7m/m I reckon your tempo pace is around 7:45 or so. Again concentrate on being relaxed and controlled and don't do more than 2 "hard" workouts a week (this includes races!) everything else should be very easy running

menoscemo

drquirky wrote: »

Working that long run to up over 90 mins (whatever distance that covers for you) would probably do you some good. A very basic plan for 5k 10k improvement might look something like this

Sunday 90 min Long run
Monday off/ recovery run
Tuesday Intervals (10x400, 6x1000, 4x1mi etc etc) or 20 minTempo run
Weds off/recovery
Thurs 60 mins easy
Fri 30 mins recovery
Sat Parkrun/5k 10k race or tempo run

If you worked up to that plan and cycled through it for a few weeks you'd see massive improvements considering their seems to be not tons of structure in your training right now

This is all pretty much the same advice as I gave you in your previous thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057116884
Run more often, mix up the paces between, easy; tempo and intervals and do a long run.

However since you are only doing 3 runs and 15 miles per week at the moment you can't just jump into a 5 day per week programme with a long run. As I said before, build up a long run by 1 mile or maybe 10 minutes per week until it is about 10 miles (or 90 minutes as DrQ says) then introduce a 4th run and eventually a 5th run. The whole process might take a few months.

wrstan

In the base building phase of his 5-15k plan, JD recommends that your long run is 25% of your weekly mileage or 90 minutes whichever is less.

However as your weekly mileage is only about 15-20 (I think), this would make your long run 5 miles!

I would agree with Meno, you should start introducing some more EZ runs during the week, then when you have been running up to 30 - 35 miles per week for a month, replace one of your EZ runs with a 10-12 mile long run.

Follow this for a further month and you will have a decent base to build some focussed 5 and 10k training from.

kchsligo

Have a query on the long slow run that some on here should be able to sort out.

I've often read that the recommended pace for a LSR (say 8.15) should be slower than PMP (say 7.30 just to put numbers to it) but reading above it seems like many include some miles at PMP as part of the long run. Does this mean that the remaining miles are way way slower than PMP so that the overall pace is slow or is it just the non-PMP that need to be at the recommended LSR pace? Hope this makes sense to others as I sort of know what I'm asking...

kchsligo

Have a query on the long slow run that some on here should be able to sort out.

I've often read that the recommended pace for a LSR (say 8.15) should be slower than PMP (say 7.30 just to put numbers to it) but reading above it seems like many include some miles at PMP as part of the long run. Does this mean that the remaining miles are way way slower than PMP so that the overall pace is slow or is it just the non-PMP that need to be at the recommended LSR pace? Hope this makes sense to others as I sort of know what I'm asking...

ThePiedPiper

I'd say my Long Run pace would be about 45-60 seconds per mile slower than PMP. And, this is actually quite aggressive, a lot of people would have this at 60-90 seconds. Until you have yourself very well accustomed to a long run of 12+ miles, forget about the pace completely.

I would only have miles at PMP in the long run in the three months coming up to the goal marathon generally. Before that, the focus in the long run would be solely the distance, without worrying about time.

rom

Ran all my long runs at 9min per mile for dcm 2012 and ran 3:18 having run 4:30 in 2011. Take from that what you want but running LSR too fast is more common than too slow. It also leaves you fresh for you other key weekly sessions.

inigo

Forgive me if this has been answered before or if it doesn't belong here, but what is a long run, i.e. how long or how far?

menoscemo

inigo wrote: »

Forgive me if this has been answered before or if it doesn't belong here, but what is a long run, i.e. how long or how far?

It's your Longest run of the week, designed to increase endurance. It's distance depends on what your training for (i.e. for marathons and Ultras it will be much longer) however if training for distances 1 mile+ most on here would advocate a long run of at least 10 miles....

inigo

menoscemo wrote: »

It's your Longest run of the week, designed to increase endurance. It's distance depends on what your training for (i.e. for marathons and Ultras it will be much longer) however if training for distances 1 mile+ most on here would advocate a long run of at least 10 miles....

Thanks, menoscemo. I kinda knew what it was, only I think I could be doing several long(er) runs in a given week if that makes any sense. Even though I have a plan with lsr's in the weekends, I'll run longer than planned on a particular day during the week if I have the chance (read family and work commitments here), being careful not to overdo it overall in that week (10% rule).

OP, sorry for the intrusion!

kchsligo

rom wrote: »

Ran all my long runs at 9min per mile for dcm 2012 and ran 3:18 having run 4:30 in 2011. Take from that what you want but running LSR too fast is more common than too slow. It also leaves you fresh for you other key weekly sessions.

Rom, your 2012 time is similar to what I would be aiming for. What sort of plan did you follow for that in terms of mileage and sessions?

rom

kchsligo wrote: »

Rom, your 2012 time is similar to what I would be aiming for. What sort of plan did you follow for that in terms of mileage and sessions?

It was basically 2 speed sessions a week and a long run at the weekend. tbh I don't think its down to a majic plan but following whatever plan you have correctly. I avg about 50 miles a week. Ran 3:04 in Berlin this year avg 40 miles. Mileage has gone back up now. You just need to think of the goal of each run and run accordingly. If its a recovery run then your very very slow. If its mile repeats or whatever you pace them accordingly so that they are all similar pace rather than dying on the last one. If its a long slow run then it needs to be long and slow simply.

I run with this guy that had a 3:10 pb and his easy pace is like 7:30 and h is always breathing hard. He has a brother than paces 60min 10 milers so the genetics are there but he just trains wrong. hard work does give results but hard smart work.

My goal time for DCM 2012 was sub 3:20 but that didn't stop me running my long runs at 9min/mile as that was the correct pace as I was very weak endurance wise which is still the case. The long slow run pace is the pace that you could do another 10 miles at the end if you had to.

btw people who have goal like I ran 3:32 last year as a fit 20-40 male and want to go sub 3:30 the following year just don't get it. If they slow down their long runs and train for the marathon like its an ultra they will do much better.

PS I know a sub 3 guy who has never ever done a speed session of any kind.

you put your 5k and marathon times into macmillian. if your 5k/10k time says you can run a faster marathon then you concentrate on endurance training. If your marathon time is consistant with your 5k time then you work on your 5k time. You find where you are weak and work on that simply.

Tigerandahalf

Do people find it very hard to stick to the plans that involve 5/6 days a week of some form of running. I am going to do the half at Connemara in April with the hope of doing a marathon further down the road. I was never fast, just never had speed in my legs but I always had fairly good endurance. I also find I run better having had a break in my running, so I'm wondering to myself if 5/6 sessions a week is overdoing it on my legs.
I play a bit of indoor soccer during the week and that can take it out of your legs as you're sprinting, stopping quickly, turning and sprinting again, so it can take a bit of time to recover.
I did a long slow run tonight. 8 laps of a circuit with a bit of a hill as well. I did 22k in 1hr 50mins. It was probably one of the most enjoyable runs I have done as I am normally watching my watch and pushing myself too much.
I do some long walks as well (around 15 - 25k). I like having the other activities to balance out my running.
I'm doing the Tuam 8k next Sunday and it would be nice to get under 35 minutes. Hoping the long runs will ensure I have enough endurance in case I get carried away with the race pace.

echancrure

Talking of long runs, today does not seem quite right, had to wait for brightness to come, but there are gusts of 60km/h out there and heavy rain is coming... forget my 20 miles run!

Am I lazy?

Might do strengh and core in the bedroom instead and long run tomorrow...

drquirky

echancrure wrote: »

Talking of long runs, today does not seem quite right, had to wait for brightness to come, but there are gusts of 60km/h out there and heavy rain is coming... forget my 20 miles run!

Am I lazy?

Might do strengh and core in the bedroom instead and long run tomorrow...

"No such thing as bad weather, just soft people."

Yup you're being lazy- get out there and run

Itziger

drquirky wrote: »

"No such thing as bad weather, just soft people."

Yup you're being lazy- get out there and run

Hehe, the wife says to me earlier, "Are you going for a run this morning?", Yeah, says, I, why? "Maybe you shouldn't, she says, It's very slippy out there" WTF? She's seen me go out in a lot worse than that over the last few years. It's our first frosty morning in this so mild Winter.

I will admit that some Irish weather, wind and rain, would be a challenge from time to time but, like you say above, ya gotta get out and run.

Ososlo

drquirky wrote: »

"No such thing as bad weather, just soft people."

Yup you're being lazy- get out there and run

Agreed. But the thing I don't understand, is that if it's a struggle for someone why do it at all? None of us has to run. Do we not do it 'cause we love it? Laziness shouldn't really come into it. Do it if you want to do it, don't if you don't. A bit of bad weather might make it a tiny bit more difficult but just adjust your effort accordingly and what difference does it make what the weather is like? (severe conditions might be a different matter, but I'm sure there are ways around that too). If you're too lazy to run, don't run. Find something else to do that you could love. If you don't want to do a 20 mile run, don't do it! Train for shorter distances! Simples!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or maybe I'm missing something

echancrure

Ososlo wrote: »

Agreed. But the thing I don't understand, is that if it's a struggle for someone why do it at all? None of us has to run. Do we not do it 'cause we love it? Laziness shouldn't really come into it. Do it if you want to do it, don't if you don't. A bit of bad weather might make it a tiny bit more difficult but just adjust your effort accordingly and what difference does it make what the weather is like? (severe conditions might be a different matter, but I'm sure there are ways around that too). If you're too lazy to run, don't run. Find something else to do that you could love. If you don't want to do a 20 mile run, don't do it! Train for shorter distances! Simples!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or maybe I'm missing something

It's just running on road with oncoming traffic and 60kph gusts of wind I don't fancy.

TFBubendorfer

echancrure wrote: »

Talking of long runs, today does not seem quite right, had to wait for brightness to come, but there are gusts of 60km/h out there and heavy rain is coming... forget my 20 miles run!

Am I lazy?

Might do strengh and core in the bedroom instead and long run tomorrow...

Reading that with today's 18+ mile run still fresh in mind, yes you're lazy and those excuses are sh*te.

HTFU

ThePiedPiper

echancrure wrote: »

Talking of long runs, today does not seem quite right, had to wait for brightness to come, but there are gusts of 60km/h out there and heavy rain is coming... forget my 20 miles run!

Am I lazy?

Might do strengh and core in the bedroom instead and long run tomorrow...

how did the strength and core work go in the bedroom? Did you do it as a tempo session or repeats?

echancrure

Right.
I won't be looking for sympathy ever again.

You's a hard bunch.

PaulieC

What happens on the day in Conn if there are gusts ? Will you pull out ?

echancrure

PaulieC wrote: »

What happens on the day in Conn if there are gusts ? Will you pull out ?

:rolleyes: No I won't

I'll just wait for the wind to stop