Caught by the clamper depite having paid!

spida

I parked in Raheny village a few weeks back and paid for my parking. Put the ticket on the dashboard and went to the bank. As I was leaving the car I saw the clamper arrive and he parked next to my car.
When I came back I had been clamped and when I went to see how this was possible the ticket was on the floor of the car. So, yes, it was not properly displayed. The clamper man was still there so I asked him about it and he said appeals have to be online, but you have to pay 1st. So I paid €120 and left.

I appealed online and on Monday heard back that my appeal had been denied as the ticket was not properly displayed. I can appeal a second time to the Independent Parking Appeals Service but there is a cost of €20 which will be refunded if the appeal is successful.

Should I keep trying? Or am I just in the wrong and should have checked my parking ticket more carefully???

Truckermal

I hate clamping but why was the ticket on the floor? I always make sure it's properly displayed just in case.

Supergurrier

Whats to say the ticket was even there ? (from the clampers pov)

You pay for it for a reason.

Don't get me wrong i hate clampers but still this is common sense

Cuddlesworth

spida wrote: »

Should I keep trying? Or am I just in the wrong and should have checked my parking ticket more carefully???

You won't win the second one either, you didn't have the ticket displayed.

punisher5112

Everyone should buy a Skoda as they have a little clip on the windscreen to hold ticket so this never happens.

I would say the appeal is a bit like appeal process of Dun Laoghaire where they screw you for every cent then take the property tax build another lovely building with all of our money so they can sit in luxury with their feet up and do nothing.

Supergurrier

punisher5112 wrote: »

Everyone should buy a Skoda as they have a little clip on the windscreen to hold ticket so this never happens.

Haha mine had this too, so handy

Red Kev

€120 ? Were they private clampers ?

Either way, you didn't take enough care to have the ticket properly displayed so tbh it's tough but that's the way it goes. If they are private clampers yoou don't have a chance in hell of getting it refunded, their "appeals panel" consists of a standard letter and a rubbish bin for your appeals letter (most of the time).

johndaman66

Do these guys need to keep a log of the date and time they begin to clamp the car at? If spida produced the parking ticket to the Independent Parking appeals service that showed he/ she was covered at the time they were clamped would they not be successful.

I hate clampers also by the way....scum of the earth

road_high

punisher5112 wrote: »

Everyone should buy a Skoda as they have a little clip on the windscreen to hold ticket so this never happens.

I would say the appeal is a bit like appeal process of Dun Laoghaire where they screw you for every cent then take the property tax build another lovely building with all of our money so they can sit in luxury with their feet up and do nothing.

My last car Volvo S40 has one of those too...I never knew what it was for, I assumed just for small documents if you wanted, silly me :P.
Learn something new everyday...

Technoprisoner

spida wrote: »

I parked in Raheny village a few weeks back and paid for my parking. Put the ticket on the dashboard and went to the bank. As I was leaving the car I saw the clamper arrive and he parked next to my car.
When I came back I had been clamped and when I went to see how this was possible the ticket was on the floor of the car. So, yes, it was not properly displayed. The clamper man was still there so I asked him about it and he said appeals have to be online, but you have to pay 1st. So I paid €120 and left.

I appealed online and on Monday heard back that my appeal had been denied as the ticket was not properly displayed. I can appeal a second time to the Independent Parking Appeals Service but there is a cost of €20 which will be refunded if the appeal is successful.

Should I keep trying? Or am I just in the wrong and should have checked my parking ticket more carefully???

i remember reading somewhere that the independent parking appeals service is not so independent.... remember these are private companys not goverened by anyone....your best bet is probably to bring a small claims case against them.

johndaman66

punisher5112 wrote: »

Everyone should buy a Skoda....

So many people on this forum do buy Skoda it would seem....don't be encouraging the rest of them:D

Guy:Incognito

johndaman66 wrote: »

Do these guys need to keep a log of the date and time they begin to clamp the car at? If spida produced the parking ticket to the Independent Parking appeals service that showed he/ she was covered at the time they were clamped would they not be successful.

I hate clampers also by the way....scum of the earth

All that would prove is that someone bought a ticket. Not necessarily the op.

johndaman66

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

All that would prove is that someone bought a ticket. Not necessarily the op.

Fair point but the way I'd look at is that the overwhelming likelihood was that the OP bought the ticket.

Scratch the thought though...if the independent Parking Appeals Service is far from independent as other posters are implying then the whole effort is probably in vain

punisher5112

johndaman66 wrote: »

So many people on this forum do buy Skoda it would seem....don't be encouraging the rest of them:D

Go on you know you want one join us even if its just for the ticket holder join us skoda owners....:pac::pac:

Zen 2nd

**** lesson to learn but you have to be careful to ensure that the ticket is viewable on the dash after you lock your car.

Hammer Archer

punisher5112 wrote: »

Everyone should buy a Skoda as they have a little clip on the windscreen to hold ticket so this never happens.

I've had a Skoda for 4 years and never realised that's what it's for

Guy:Incognito

Valves have them too. I've one on each side in my s80:-)

The safrane had them too.

biko

Just that one glance back as you walk away would have saved you 120, sorry but it was not displayed.

Yakuza

Zen 2nd wrote: »

**** lesson to learn but you have to be careful to ensure that the ticket is viewable on the dash after you lock your car.

Yep, it's a rotten thing to have happen to esp when the OP did the right thing. Closing the door after putting the ticket on the dash can create a draught that lifts the ticket and sends it flying, or even just on a windy day, it can get blown around. I always check the ticket is visible after closing the door, just to avoid exactly what happened to the OP.

An expensive lesson, unfortunately.
@OP, I guess you could chance an appeal if you have a ticket that covers the time the car was clamped, but you can't prove that ticket was one you bought yourself, and not one you managed to get post facto.

eringobragh

Personally I would have used a clamp master key:

cerastes

Zen 2nd wrote: »

**** lesson to learn but you have to be careful to ensure that the ticket is viewable on the dash after you lock your car.

So paying is not acceptable defence to appealing and being overturned

Ok it wasnt displayed correctly, he had to pay but appeal and then show it was paid, how likely is it this person then went and located someone that had paid and was willing to give up their ticket, this sounds patently unfair.

Added to that, there is usually no longer a sticky label anymore to allow tickets to be stuck to the windscreen, ok, I check, I have a little clip in my windscreen but thats not something thats present in most cases, but surely the whole purpose of this is to catch those that dont pay.

Guy:Incognito

cerastes wrote: »

So paying is not acceptable defence to appealing and being overturned

Ok it wasnt displayed correctly, he had to pay but appeal and then show it was paid, how likely is it this person then went and located someone that had paid and was willing to give up their ticket, this sounds patently unfair.

Added to that, there is usually no longer a sticky label anymore to allow tickets to be stuck to the windscreen, ok, I check, I have a little clip in my windscreen but thats not something thats present in most cases, but surely the whole purpose of this is to catch those that dont pay.

It's pay and display. You have to do both. The first on its own isn't good enough.

it'd be very easy to get someone else's ticket when they are leaving and using it to claim you had paid.im sure a couple of other people would come and get their cars while your waiting for the clampers to come release you.

cerastes

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It's pay and display. You have to do both. The first on its own isn't good enough.

it'd be very easy to get someone else's ticket when they are leaving and using it to claim you had paid.im sure a couple of other people would come and get their cars while your waiting for the clampers to come release you.

so how long before the push to increase revenue forced by the absolute compliance of the customer will cause the clampers to say a ticket isnt displayed? do they take pictures? I'll recommend people start taking snaps of their tickets in the windows.
pay and display, ok but the purpose is to get people to pay for the space, the person has done this and an appeal is just brushed aside, Ive been accused of cynicism, but I will be taking a picture of any parking tickets in future.Pretty ****ty and unreasonable to overturn someones appeal, how many are turning up with tickets, very few Id say.

ardle1

spida wrote: »

I parked in Raheny village a few weeks back and paid for my parking. Put the ticket on the dashboard and went to the bank. As I was leaving the car I saw the clamper arrive and he parked next to my car.
When I came back I had been clamped and when I went to see how this was possible the ticket was on the floor of the car. So, yes, it was not properly displayed. The clamper man was still there so I asked him about it and he said appeals have to be online, but you have to pay 1st. So I paid €120 and left.

I appealed online and on Monday heard back that my appeal had been denied as the ticket was not properly displayed. I can appeal a second time to the Independent Parking Appeals Service but there is a cost of €20 which will be refunded if the appeal is successful.

Should I keep trying? Or am I just in the wrong and should have checked my parking ticket more carefully???

Hence the sticky backs, who's to say 'car with genuine sticker' didn't just pass it on!!..... I can see where they're coming from..

Anan1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Everyone should buy a Skoda as they have a little clip on the windscreen to hold ticket so this never happens.

I would say the appeal is a bit like appeal process of Dun Laoghaire where they screw you for every cent then take the property tax build another lovely building with all of our money so they can sit in luxury with their feet up and do nothing.

1. I appealed a ticket in DL and won.

2. That 'lovely building' includes a public sitting room.

@OP - I'm afraid I can't really see you getting anywhere if the ticket wasn't displayed. It's worth getting into the habit of always checking the ticket after you lock the car, as closing the door can blow it off the dash.

spida

Thanks all for your posts. I think the consensus between you all is that the €20 for the appeal would be more money down the drain. I think you might be right.

The clamping company give you access (on their website) to the photos they took of your entire dashboard proving that the ticket was not there so you don't have to take your own.

Thanks again all.

Anan1

spida wrote: »

Thanks all for your posts. I think the consensus between you all is that the €20 for the appeal would be more money down the drain. I think you might be right.

The clamping company give you access (on their website) to the photos they took of your entire dashboard proving that the ticket was not there so you don't have to take your own.

Thanks again all.

Just out of interest, did the guy who clamped the car actually see the valid ticket at any point? Ie, if asked, would he be able to confirm that you did indeed have a valid ticket?

spida

Yes, he was standing by his car as we returned. My wife picked the ticket off the floor and went straight over to him with it. Bare in mind that he was parked in the NEXT parking bay to us!

Chris_Heilong

That area outside EBS is notorious for Clamping, maybe carry bluetac and tac it to the back of your ticket to stop it falling next time.

Cabaal

This is why I always glance at the windscrean after I close the door, to make sure the ticket is where it needs to be.
Never had any problems with clamping yet

keithclancy

Henry Ford III

spida wrote: »

Yes, he was standing by his car as we returned. My wife picked the ticket off the floor and went straight over to him with it. Bare in mind that he was parked in the NEXT parking bay to us!

That's too bad.

Unfortunately you were obliged have a valid ticket displayed and didn't through bad luck.

Del2005

keithclancy wrote: »

It's up to the owner to display the ticket not the camper to find it.

jackofalltrades

spida wrote: »

Should I keep trying? Or am I just in the wrong and should have checked my parking ticket more carefully???

Well from what I've read. You have:

1) Paid for parking
2) Made a reasonable effort to display the ticket (placing it on the dashboard, even though it fell off and producing it to the clampers).

From this:

European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Regulations, 1995.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/si/0027.html

6. (1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.

SCHEDULE 3

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

1. Terms which have the object or effect of:

( e ) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;

There basically getting you to pay €120, in compensation for not having the ticket on your dashboard.

Rather than appealing it further, I'd look into seeing if you could take this to the small claims court. Since you were a consumer in this case. You could argue that a €120 penalty fee is unreasonable, that the property owner suffered no damages(since the parking was paid for) and that you displayed the ticket while the agent of the property owner was there. Is there any chance the ticket would have been visible on the floor?

Disclaimer: I'm not a solicitor and the above is just my understanding of consumer law.

endplate

Same thing happened to me. Put the ticket on the dashboard. I then decided I was not happy where the car was parked so I reversed it into a spot directly behind where the car was parked. Unknown to me at this stage was that the ticket had blown off the dashboard and into the passenger footwell still facing up and readable. I appealed but was told it was not on the dashboard:mad:

Boom_Bap

I had a similar situation, my parking permit had drifted from the dash to the seat or footwell. Had to pay to release and go through the appeals.
Appeal rejected and had the option of going to the 'independant' appeal.

After research, the 'independant' appeal is with board members of other clamping firms, or others in the clamping community.

So it's a waste of €20. There are some partial refunds provided occassionally, but from my homework, and my case, there was no point. I even had letters from the a director of the management company that uses the clamping service, the backing of 2 local TDs.

Anan1

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I had a similar situation, my parking permit had drifted from the dash to the seat or footwell. Had to pay to release and go through the appeals.
Appeal rejected and had the option of going to the 'independant' appeal.

After research, the 'independant' appeal is with board members of other clamping firms, or others in the clamping community.

So it's a waste of €20. There are some partial refunds provided occassionally, but from my homework, and my case, there was no point. I even had letters from the a director of the management company that uses the clamping service, the backing of 2 local TDs.

Wasn't the OP clamped by the council, rather than a private firm?

Boom_Bap

Anan1 wrote: »

Wasn't the OP clamped by the council, rather than a private firm?

If it's a €120 fee its a firm, Dublin City Council is €95 for release I believe....but I could be wrong.

spida

I was clamped by: http://www.ncps.ie/

BMJD

Del2005 wrote: »

It's up to the owner to display the ticket not the camper to find it.

looks like they are displaying a ticket to me

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

AngryHippie

The entire system in Ireland is dumb.

I've seen a better way here in Brisbane, when you purchase your ticket, you enter the rego of the car onto the machine, if you fail to display, it will come up on the inspectors little wifi device for issuing the tickets. There are no clamps. They issue a traffic infringement notice directly through the dept. of Transport. If you fail to pay they escalate quickly, and you can't get rego (road tax + 3rd party) unless the vehicle is clear. unregistered cars approached by inspectors will be towed and impounded. Cars on double or single yellows or clearways will be towed.
It works very well in my opinion.
Clamps are and always have been a total d1ck of an idea.

darragh o meara

Cabaal wrote: »

This is why I always glance at the windscrean after I close the door, to make sure the ticket is where it needs to be.
Never had any problems with clamping yet

Usually leave the consaw within view, hasn't let me down yet Good thing too, cos after years of abuse you'd want arms like Hulk Hogan to start the bitch... Something I certainly dont have ...

To be fair, I'm usually paid up and I never park where I shouldn't . But one run in I had with a clamper in the railway station who clamped me because my ticket ran out, (which incidently was because the train was delayed) changed my outlook on them for good. I used that station a lot and had been delayed a few times ( again through no fault if my own ) and i was never clamped again, wheras he went to town on anyone else.

cerastes

eringobragh wrote: »

Personally I would have used a clamp master key:

power?

AngryHippie wrote: »

The entire system in Ireland is dumb.

I've seen a better way here in Brisbane, when you purchase your ticket, you enter the rego of the car onto the machine, if you fail to display, it will come up on the inspectors little wifi device for issuing the tickets. There are no clamps. They issue a traffic infringement notice directly through the dept. of Transport. If you fail to pay they escalate quickly, and you can't get rego (road tax + 3rd party) unless the vehicle is clear. unregistered cars approached by inspectors will be towed and impounded. Cars on double or single yellows or clearways will be towed.
It works very well in my opinion.
Clamps are and always have been a total d1ck of an idea.

That would not work here because it appears to have been thought out and makes sense, hence does not apply.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

cerastes

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not sure if my 12v connection would support that wattage?
I'll have to check, my inverter is only 300watts max, 150 watts continuous.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

keithclancy

AngryHippie wrote: »

The entire system in Ireland is dumb.

I've seen a better way here in Brisbane, when you purchase your ticket, you enter the rego of the car onto the machine, if you fail to display, it will come up on the inspectors little wifi device for issuing the tickets. There are no clamps. They issue a traffic infringement notice directly through the dept. of Transport. If you fail to pay they escalate quickly, and you can't get rego (road tax + 3rd party) unless the vehicle is clear. unregistered cars approached by inspectors will be towed and impounded. Cars on double or single yellows or clearways will be towed.
It works very well in my opinion.
Clamps are and always have been a total d1ck of an idea.

In a lot of the Netherlands now they've done away with the tickets altogether.

You just put your plate number in the parking meter and pay by card.

Kind of crap that you can't give your ticket to someone else for the time left on it though.

cerastes

keithclancy wrote: »

In a lot of the Netherlands now they've done away with the tickets altogether.

You just put your plate number in the parking meter and pay by card.

Kind of crap that you can't give your ticket to someone else for the time left on it though.

Probably why they stopped doing tickets with the sticky back on them to stick them to windscreen, people were sticking them to the ticket machine, just leave it there for free.
They want everyone to pay for their parking time-slot to maximise what they bring in. Means a space can make more in a particular timeframe per hour than is charged for the hour, maybe it makes up for the non use time?

No different to the old parking meters, not sure if it was in Ireland, read about they took out the needle to indicate remaining time, the original payee knew what time they paid for, but if they left the space the machine was reset by the next payee as they couldnt see how much time was remaining, or even if there was time remaining or not.

keithclancy

cerastes wrote: »

Probably why they stopped doing tickets with the sticky back on them to stick them to windscreen, people were sticking them to the ticket machine, just leave it there for free.
They want everyone to pay for their parking time-slot to maximise what they bring in. Means a space can make more in a particular timeframe per hour than is charged for the hour, maybe it makes up for the non use time?

No different to the old parking meters, not sure if it was in Ireland, read about they took out the needle to indicate remaining time, the original payee knew what time they paid for, but if they left the space the machine was reset by the next payee as they couldnt see how much time was remaining, or even if there was time remaining or not.

I know why they do it

Just the human interaction was nice is all !