First Time Buyer Homes (Dublin)

howtolive

Hi,

Potential first time buyer here, have financial queries which will give you a bit of background here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057119367

Here I'd like some advice on where to live that would be in a price range of 150-220k, where is safe, good for starting a family, etc.

Due to proximity to work, family and friends we wish to be ideally somewhere between Kimmage on the Southside and the closer end
of Glasnevin on the Northside, with Chapelizod being the most westerly point. Obviously we wish to avoid areas with high incidences
of theft/burglary, violence, vandalism, drug abuse and so forth.

Would be unsure of most residential areas north of Parnell St. due to lack of familiarity, and have heard very mixed (or mostly
negative) opinions of areas like Cabra, Phibsborough, Fairview on the Northside and Kilmainham, Drimnagh, etc on the South.

A worry would be that a lot of the Northside areas that may be ok, seem to be surrounded by less than great areas that one would have to walk through to get home etc.

Any help would be great!

banjotradman

hello how to live.

you will get mixed reviews about most areas, as some people have bad experiences no matter where they are. for instance, i really like phibsborough, fairview, and kilmainham because for me and my priorities, they are close to town, have lots of amenities, good public transport. they have some decent schools too.

Some people though will find it too urban, and will have had bad experiences that put them off. You say that you want to avoid places with 'high incidences of theft/burglary, violence, vandalism, drug abuse and so forth', but to be honest, you'll get a little bit of all of those things in the more central areas like phibs. fairview etc. I had my car broken into before in phibs, and you see the odd junkie about, but stuff like that doesn't bother me in the slightest. If you feel safe walking around, then that's good enough.

Chapelizod is lovely, but very few 'family' homes. some nice apartments (knockmaree) with families living there. good schools too.

kimmage, kilmainham are getting quite expensive now (vs. north side), which is unfortunate. driminagh - some parts are a bit dodgy, but again you can't paint it all with the one brush. glasnevin is lovely too, and relatively affordable. don't listen to any of that bollox about 'north glasnevin' being ballymun or finglas. they are nice settled areas with plenty of young families.

my advice (which I did myself) - go to the areas you're thinking of, and have a good walk around the streets. Do it during the day and at night too. Go for a pint in the local pub etc. You'll get a really quick and accurate feel for the place yourself then, and be in a better position to judge it for yourself. One man's **** hole is another man's paradise and all that. Personally I'd hate to live in the burbs where the grass is green and there's no vandalism, but for someone else, that's what they're after.

hope that helps.

handlemaster

Your budget seems a little tight foe what your after.

jon1981

Assuming 3bed? Parts of walkinstown might work for you. Kilmainham is actually quite sought after and expensive.

lima

jon1981 wrote: »

Assuming 3bed? Parts of walkinstown might work for you. Kilmainham is actually quite sought after and expensive.

Kilmainham is a bit of a crap area, some rough parts, other parts are just depressing. Surprised it's getting expensive.

North inner city is plagued with Heroin addicts, check the area around the property

jon1981

lima wrote: »

Kilmainham is a bit of a crap area, some rough parts, other parts are just depressing. Surprised it's getting expensive.

Obviously the forces behind the prices don't agree with you ...kilmainham is a great location , nice big houses and great transport options, lived there for 20+ yrs.

Dortilolma

I can't really say much about the North side but we bought a house in Walkinstown and love it. It's very residential with lots of amenities near by and the general atmosphere of the area is fantastic. OH grew up in Drimnagh and was quite taken with the idea of buying near there.

lima

jon1981 wrote: »

Obviously the forces behind the prices don't agree with you ...kilmainham is a great location , nice big houses and great transport options, lived there for 20+ yrs.

It's really interesting that the 'forces' behind the prices don't agree with me. Perhaps it's Irish people low expectations.

Old Kilmainham road is depressing, nothing there. S*itty little cottages.

Kilmainham Lane is depressing too.

Emmt Rd & Inchicore Rd - there is nothing there.

South Circular from hospital to Suir Rd is the only nice part. Close to Luas too.

sawdoubters

propertypin ie is better websit for this

my guess is your price range is too low

gmisk

lima wrote: »

Kilmainham is a bit of a crap area, some rough parts, other parts are just depressing. Surprised it's getting expensive.

North inner city is plagued with Heroin addicts, check the area around the property

Totally disagree, I have lived in kilmainham for 7+ years.
There is a huge eurospar, the new bakery (lovely), hilton hotel, IMMA, War memorial gardens and not far from town at all, or phoenix park, I love the area.

domcq

+1 for Walkinstown also. I bought there in the last few months and there's a nice settled feel to the place. Many of the neighbors introduced themselves and welcomed me to the area. Easy access to town via the number 9.

moxin

sawdoubters wrote: »

propertypin ie is better websit for this

my guess is your price range is too low

More likely prices are still too high. If we had a properly functioning market the number of areas available in the 150-220k range would be higher.

handlemaster

moxin wrote: »

More likely prices are still too high. If we had a properly functioning market the number of areas available in the 150-220k range would be higher.

I Dont think your ideology would help you buy a house. The reality is people are selling a d buying at these prices.

moxin

handlemaster wrote: »

I Dont think your ideology would help you buy a house. The reality is people are selling a d buying at these prices.

The reality is restricted supply is pricing people out of areas which should be in that range.

handlemaster

moxin wrote: »

The reality is restricted supply is pricing people out of areas which should be in that range.

No matter what there will always be places where people want to live more than others. In Ireland this Dublin. Within Dublin you have preferential areas this drives demand and thus different prices for different areas. Applying socialist ideology to a capitalist market is fruitile.

moxin

handlemaster wrote: »

No matter what there will always be places where people want to live more than others. In Ireland this Dublin. Within Dublin you have preferential areas this drives demand and thus different prices for different areas. Applying socialist ideology to a capitalist market is fruitile.

We're talking about 150-220k areas, not Foxrock.

handlemaster

moxin wrote: »

We're talking about 150-220k areas, not Foxrock.

So you want fixed prices for certain areas ?

moxin

handlemaster wrote: »

So you want fixed prices for certain areas ?

No, you're twisting words. If there was a properly functional market without interference, areas currently in the 250k bracket would be in the 150-220k bracket.

GavMan

moxin wrote: »

No, you're twisting words. If there was a properly functional market without interference, areas currently in the 250k bracket would be in the 150-220k bracket.

On what basis? Sticking your finger in the air? How have you come to this arbitrary conclusion

handlemaster

moxin wrote: »

No, you're twisting words. If there was a properly functional market without interference, areas currently in the 250k bracket would be in the 150-220k bracket.

..I wonder. ..

moxin

GavMan wrote: »

On what basis? Sticking your finger in the air? How have you come to this arbitrary conclusion

handlemaster wrote: »

..I wonder. ..

Based on the affordability of potential buyers. You'd need to earn about 60k to be able to afford a house asking 250k(60x3.5 mortgage plus 40k deposit). If one was earning 60k and looking at todays market, properties in more affluent areas should be available but they're overpriced due to artificial restrictions.

roro2

moxin wrote: »

Based on the affordability of potential buyers. You'd need to earn about 60k to be able to afford a house asking 250k(60x3.5 mortgage plus 40k deposit). If one was earning 60k and looking at todays market, properties in more affluent areas should be available but they're overpriced due to artificial restrictions.

That calculation is not how lenders assess affordability, and you don't need a 16% deposit. Plus most borrowers have 2 incomes.

But that's a side-issue anyway - picking incomes and mortgage sizes out of the air does nothing for an argument that houses selling for 250k should be selling for 150k-220k.

moxin

roro2 wrote: »

That calculation is not how lenders assess affordability, and you don't need a 16% deposit. Plus most borrowers have 2 incomes.

But that's a side-issue anyway - picking incomes and mortgage sizes out of the air does nothing for an argument that houses selling for 250k should be selling for 150k-220k.

Its a general rule on how much you can borrow when fulfilling the normal assumptions(no debts, no serious outgoings, steady job, aged around 30). Its not plucked out of the air, its a fact in today's climate.

I had said 210 for a 60k'er, for high earners like the example its probably higher, I just checked the AIB online calculator which is the most accurate, it comes back at 230k for 35yr mortgage so about a 4x rule for higher earners. Lower earners as well as older earners(30yr+) return a lower multiple going down to 3.5x. https://mortgage.aib.ie/mortgageform/mortgage-calculator

Basically, ask yourself what type of wages you need to afford a 250k house. Well, i've stated it and its ridiculously high for what's on offer in the market.

roro2

moxin wrote: »

Basically, ask yourself what type of wages you need to afford a 250k house. Well, i've stated it and its ridiculously high for what's on offer in the market.

It's not if there is 2 incomes. If there's only 1 income, well then it's hardly surprising that you need a decent wage to get an above-average mortgage.

But yet houses in the 250k bracket are selling for 250k. Therefore people are obviously getting these mortgages and, by your reasoning, are obviously on ridiculously high wages. So be it. I don't see how it follows that these houses "should" be priced at 150k.

moxin

roro2 wrote: »

It's not if there is 2 incomes. If there's only 1 income, well then it's hardly surprising that you need a decent wage to get an above-average mortgage.

But yet houses in the 250k bracket are selling for 250k. Therefore people are obviously getting these mortgages and, by your reasoning, are obviously on ridiculously high wages. So be it. I don't see how it follows that these houses "should" be priced at 150k.

Oh the dual income mantra which is dangerous financially. If one half of the couple loses the job for a period of time, gets illness, having kids, ya know they only have the one income to fall on and the will get into arrears on their massive mortgage which probably wasn't massive before the events happened.

So according to your criteria, houses or any dwelling around 250k should only be available to couples? Back in the peak it was known for "partners" like a brother, sister, mother, father, best mate to put their name down on the mortgage to bump up the qualifying amount for a single buyer. Do single people have any say in the market?

roro2

moxin wrote: »

Oh the dual income mantra which is dangerous financially. If one half of the couple loses the job for a period of time, gets illness, having kids, ya know they only have the one income to fall on and the will get into arrears on their massive mortgage which probably wasn't massive before the events happened.

So according to your criteria, houses or any dwelling around 250k should only be available to couples? Back in the peak it was known for "partners" like a brother, sister, mother, father, best mate to put their name down on the mortgage to bump up the qualifying amount for a single buyer. Do single people have any say in the market?

Single people who want to get an above-average mortgage will need a decent wage. It's hardly surprising. If you want to twist that to "houses or any dwelling around 250k should only be available to couples" that's your own business.

moxin

roro2 wrote: »

Single people who want to get an above-average mortgage will need a decent wage. It's hardly surprising. If you want to twist that to "houses or any dwelling around 250k should only be available to couples" that's your own business.

What's an above-average mortgage and a decent wage for 250k?

MouseTail

€60k household income is below the average, and certainly wouldn't, and never would have, been sufficient to purchase in the most desirable areas.

moxin

MouseTail wrote: »

€60k household income is below the average, and certainly wouldn't, and never would have, been sufficient to purchase in the most desirable areas.

250k houses are not located in the "most desirable" areas if by that phrase you mean affluence like Foxrock mentioned earlier.

banjotradman

domcq wrote: »

+1 for Walkinstown also. I bought there in the last few months and there's a nice settled feel to the place. Many of the neighbors introduced themselves and welcomed me to the area. Easy access to town via the number 9.

Do you mind me asking what part of walkinstown? looking there myself, but wouldn't know it as well as other parts of dublin. seems nice and settled, and certainly cheaper than the likes of kilmainham, harolds cross etc.

domcq

banjotradman wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what part of walkinstown? looking there myself, but wouldn't know it as well as other parts of dublin. seems nice and settled, and certainly cheaper than the likes of kilmainham, harolds cross etc.

St Peters road, just up past the credit union. There's also a nice community garden project round the corner: http://www.greenhillsgardenproject.org/.

Ciaran_B

Walkinstown or Crumlin would be what I would suggest. Ticks all the OPs boxes, close(ish) to town, good transport links. Crumlin has a bad rep but I lived there for 30 years and never had any hassle. (yes, conformation bias - I know)

kennyb3

moxin wrote: »

No, you're twisting words. If there was a properly functional market without interference, areas currently in the 250k bracket would be in the 150-220k bracket.

I think your if is your down fall here. When do you expect there ever to be a properly functioning market in Ireland? And what do you define as one?

Lets remember the CGT exemption for holding a property for 7 years has just been extended for 2014. (and if you go to Revenue.ie and look at the PDF document on the second line it declares that is to stimulate the housing market)

In the past we've had MIR and LPT exemptions. When would you expect the government to stop interfering?

With only 2,700 properties in dublin city per daft.ie compared to 5,000 properties 20 months ago - supply is clearly the main issue. However there is nothing concrete to suggest this will increase to any great degree.

It's nice to be able to say you should be able to buy a property in an average area for an average household income based on 3.5 times that income.

Problem is;

- what's an average deposit?
- Average income relates to the country as a whole, you're discussing areas in the capital city. What's the average household income in Dublin?
- What's an average area? (if you can get agreement you are doing well)
- Should you use 3.5 times or 4.5times. One income or two? 3.5times 1 + half the other?
- Does your working take account of cities v's rural locations?
- Certain people might not want kids greatily increasing affordability
- Others might have guaranteed jobs with guaranteed increments
- The current cost of rent is a factor

My overall point is that everything doesn't neatly fit within an average, there are market interferences/emotions etc at play and as I've noted above it's not as straight forward as you are trying to suggest.

Fundamentals should be used - yes of course. But each person needs to assess their own affordability based on their personal circumstances and what they perceive as affordable and houses/area that are value given this. Even within a given area there are good value and bad value houses.

Anyway I think you get my point.

MouseTail

moxin wrote: »

250k houses are not located in the "most desirable" areas if by that phrase you mean affluence like Foxrock mentioned earlier.

By 'most desirable' I mean what it says on the tin, the areas where demand is highest. If demand outstrips supply, obviously those on below the average wage cannot compete.

handlemaster

Been able to afford to buy a property is not a right. I prefer such rights to education and health.

jon1981

lima wrote: »

It's really interesting that the 'forces' behind the prices don't agree with me. Perhaps it's Irish people low expectations.

Old Kilmainham road is depressing, nothing there. S*itty little cottages.

Kilmainham Lane is depressing too.

Emmt Rd & Inchicore Rd - there is nothing there.

South Circular from hospital to Suir Rd is the only nice part. Close to Luas too.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/property-homes/family-purchasers-playing-big-role-in-this-popular-area-29944911.html I think youre in the minority Lima!!!

lima

jon1981 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/property-homes/family-purchasers-playing-big-role-in-this-popular-area-29944911.html I think youre in the minority Lima!!!

1. It's the Independent.
2. It's talking about D8. Portobello is far superior than Kilmainham
3. I can afford up to €350k and I wouldn't piss on Kilmainham.

jon1981

lima wrote: »

1. It's the Independent.
2. It's talking about D8. Portobello is far superior than Kilmainham
3. I can afford up to €350k and I wouldn't piss on Kilmainham.

Portobello is D8...

And what are you trying to prove with your affordability?!?

Muahahaha

handlemaster wrote: »

No matter what there will always be places where people want to live more than others. In Ireland this Dublin. Within Dublin you have preferential areas this drives demand and thus different prices for different areas. Applying socialist ideologpy to a capitalist market is fruitile.

Sure isn't that what FF/FG have allowed the banks to do- socialise their losses onto the taxpayer while privatising the profits. Property developers too- if they have their way soon NAMA will begin selling them back their loans at huge discounts, losses go onto the taxpayer, profits go to their pockets :mad:

lima

jon1981 wrote: »

Portobello is D8...

And what are you trying to prove with your affordability?!?

The article is talking about D8. You are correct in saying that Portobello is D8. You are talking about specifically about Kilmainham and the article is talking about D8, which includes areas superior to Kilmainham such as Portobello.

Each to their own but personally for my own valid reasons given I would not say Kilmainham is a good area to live in, other than it is close to the city centre. It is also dangerously close to murderous Rialto.