Ibr outbrake

trixi2011

Currently having my second out brake of ibr in my herd this year 3 cows have had to be put down this week and have 20 being treated at the moment. Has anyone had past experiences with out brakes like this? I'm farming in nz were they don't see this disease as a problem ,unlike Ireland there is no bulk milk testing available and bY the sounds of things vaccination is also not an option at the moment

Sir Arthur Daley

Do you think you had a cow who was treated from your first out brake that has caused this relapse?

trixi2011

Don't know prob had about 200 showing signs of the disease during the first out brake but very mild runny noses,wiping eyes all they really got. Came in to the herd from farm next door ,prob never left the herd some sort of stress prob brought it back on

Sir Arthur Daley

There were alot of latently infected animals no doubt from your first outbreak, it would be impractical to have been doing regular vaccination reduce reactivation and transmission to other cattle i guess with the volume of cattle you have.

knockmulliner

Sorry to hear of your difficulties, IBR has been described to me as similar to the walking flue in humans, a virus constantly circulating in the population and vaxination is the only way to deal with it. If i remember correctly, it's not IBR that is the real killer but the secondary infection of pasturella pneumonia, again vaxination is the way to go. Even with that i still see the occasional snotty nose in the herd, but the immunity in the cows handle it . Have you confirmed it is IBR. Heard of a no of outbreaks of pneumonia in vaxinated weanlings housed and in mild weather, responded to tylan, expensive but successful, hope this is some help.

trixi2011

knockmulliner wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your difficulties, IBR has been described to me as similar to the walking flue in humans, a virus constantly circulating in the population and vaxination is the only way to deal with it. If i remember correctly, it's not IBR that is the real killer but the secondary infection of pasturella pneumonia, again vaxination is the way to go. Even with that i still see the occasional snotty nose in the herd, but the immunity in the cows handle it . Have you confirmed it is IBR. Heard of a no of outbreaks of pneumonia in vaxinated weanlings housed and in mild weather, responded to tylan, expensive but successful, hope this is some help.

It has been confirmered as ibr and yes it is the secondary that has caused the deaths. Strange one is its not pneumonia as there lungs are perfect, they are getting an infection in there wind pipe and suffocating, vets here have never seen anything like before. Treating them with penicillin at the moment

blackdog1

trixi2011 wrote: »

It has been confirmered as ibr and yes it is the secondary that has caused the deaths. Strange one is its not pneumonia as there lungs are perfect, they are getting an infection in there wind pipe and suffocating, vets here have never seen anything like before. Treating them with penicillin at the moment

Got it this year lost 2 cows , couldn't save them. Hit them straight with live vaccine and gonna do them again in March with live again. Dead vaccine is supposed to be useless. Very hard to treat milking cows for ibr. Any other stock you generally give them broad spectrum antibiotic

delaval

Why can't you vaccinate?

Have nasal swabs been taken?

They need live up the nose immediately and a booster in 6 mths. All other stock if not showing signs need a shot of live and the booster.

I've been through this and this is how we dealt with it. It's not the most difficult to deal with but action must be taken.

PM Greysides, he/she is on boards and is very knowledgeable on vet matters

trixi2011

delaval wrote: »

Why can't you vaccinate?

Have nasal swabs been taken?

They need live up the nose immediately and a booster in 6 mths. All other stock if not showing signs need a shot of live and the booster.

I've been through this and this is how we dealt with it. It's not the most difficult to deal with but action must be taken.

PM Greysides, he/she is on boards and is very knowledgeable on vet matters

Swabs have been taken no live available
in nz none of the drug company's have vaccine availableat the moment and the company I work also think its to expencive and not within my budget .

bob charles

trixi2011 wrote: »

Swabs have been taken no live available
in nz none of the drug company's have vaccine availableat the moment and the company I work also think its to expencive and not within my budget .

they must be fair tight buggers if they cant spend a few quid on a vaccine but let animals keep getting infected and deaths.

jaymla627

Worked for a company like that one time, had over 7000 cows accross 14 farms was run by a business man who had never milked a cow in his life along with the second in-command being a guy straight out of collage who also had never milked a cow in his life.
Its laughable the way these guys think its all about the yearly budgets and bottomline they never see the bigger picture our realise the s...t can hit the fan at anytime with animals and you"ve got to forget about your yearly budgets when it does.

greysides

In Ireland there are live attenuated vaccines that go up the nose. Unlike virtually all other vaccines these can be used with some hope in the face of an outbreak. Within three days the vaccine will be working and moderating the disease. It may be that NZ has a policy on the use of live vaccine. The strain of the virus used is temperature sensitive and can not survive in the warmer lower respiratory tract. It works by mucosal (surface) immunity initially rather than a general immunity.

For the description it sounds as if the strain in question is a quite pathogenic strain, similar to the deadly strains that went through the UK in early80's/late 70's (?). The full name of IBR is Infectious Rhinotracheitis virus. The 'rhino' refers to the nose and the '-tracheitis' to the windpipe. IBR is a disease of the upper airways but the infection can spread down into the soft lung tissue. Strains vary worldwide and we tend to get the more moderate versions. In the fulminating disease the inner lining of the airway dies, goes necrotic.

Cost concerns surprise me. The vaccine is reasonably cheap here and no matter what it might cost would be cheaper than a dead cow. Without the vaccine all you can do is try to find a good antibiotic, use anti-inflammmatories and broncho-dilators, isolate those affected, TLC for all. The co-existence of BVD infection or Iodine/Selenium deficiencies would exacerbate the problem.

delaval

trixi2011 wrote: »

Swabs have been taken no live available
in nz none of the drug company's have vaccine availableat the moment and the company I work also think its to expencive and not within my budget .

Really short sighted of them IMO. If you could persuade them it's unreal the lift in performance and general wellbeing of the herd. That was my experience in any case

ganmo

jaymla627 wrote: »

Worked for a company like that one time, had over 7000 cows accross 14 farms was run by a business man who had never milked a cow in his life along with the second in-command being a guy straight out of collage who also had never milked a cow in his life.
Its laughable the way these guys think its all about the yearly budgets and bottomline they never see the bigger picture our realise the s...t can hit the fan at anytime with animals and you"ve got to forget about your yearly budgets when it does.

them budgets should take into consideration that **** can hit the fan. but I find that people don't like to think of what can go wrong which is often the most important question.
I remember talking to a business man who was running farm and he did those budgets and as long as things were rosey he stuck to them but he was quite willing to through them out when the slurry started flowing

trixi2011

greysides wrote: »

In Ireland there are live attenuated vaccines that go up the nose. Unlike virtually all other vaccines these can be used with some hope in the face of an outbreak. Within three days the vaccine will be working and moderating the disease. It may be that NZ has a policy on the use of live vaccine. The strain of the virus used is temperature sensitive and can not survive in the warmer lower respiratory tract. It works by mucosal (surface) immunity initially rather than a general immunity.

For the description it sounds as if the strain in question is a quite pathogenic strain, similar to the deadly strains that went through the UK in early80's/late 70's (?). The full name of IBR is Infectious Rhinotracheitis virus. The 'rhino' refers to the nose and the '-tracheitis' to the windpipe. IBR is a disease of the upper airways but the infection can spread down into the soft lung tissue. Strains vary worldwide and we tend to get the more moderate versions. In the fulminating disease the inner lining of the airway dies, goes necrotic.

Cost concerns surprise me. The vaccine is reasonably cheap here and no matter what it might cost would be cheaper than a dead cow. Without the vaccine all you can do is try to find a good antibiotic, use anti-inflammmatories and broncho-dilators, isolate those affected, TLC for all. The co-existence of BVD infection or Iodine/Selenium deficiencies would exacerbate the problem.

Thanks grey sides that's info is better than anything I found on the internet. Bvd is also a problem in the herd so prob isn't helping things. Only allowed to use white penisilin and anti-inflammstories company has there own vets so drug is tightly controlled .

delaval

trixi2011 wrote: »

Thanks grey sides that's info is better than anything I found on the internet. Bvd is also a problem in the herd so prob isn't helping things. Only allowed to use white penisilin and anti-inflammstories company has there own vets so drug is tightly controlled .

But you did find it on the net???

trixi2011

delaval wrote: »

Really short sighted of them IMO. If you could persuade them it's unreal the lift in performance and general wellbeing of the herd. That was my experience in any case

Having a meeting with vets today so will push for vaccination . Can see condition falling off heifers at the momentso even ones that are not getting bad infections its going through them and affecting there well being and performance

bob charles

trixi2011 wrote: »

Bvd is also a problem in the herd so prob isn't helping things. Only allowed to use white penisilin and anti-inflammstories company has there own vets so drug is tightly controlled .

You might as well be pushing a bus with a rope if you have a BVD problem and now and IBR problems and using Penicillin

trixi2011 wrote: »

Having a meeting with vets today so will push for vaccination . Can see condition falling off heifers at the momentso even ones that are not getting bad infections its going through them and affecting there well being and performance

why do you bother to farm with such an organization. Sorry thats not farming in my eyes. Anyone I see completely focused on the bottom line doesnt get places in farming or in most professions

jaymla627

If your not tied down their I"d be handing in my notice, go work for someone who will work with you and not be looking at their spreadsheet everytime you go looking for stuff.
I"d say your incalf rates are going to be pretty shocking did yeah scan yet that might focus your bosses mind when he factors in the massive cost of extra replacements next year

trixi2011

delaval wrote: »

But you did find it on the net???

Sorry better than I found on any of the dedicated vet or info sites

milkprofit

live vac costs 2.40 euro

trixi2011

milkprofit wrote: »

live vac costs 2.40 euro

Had a meeting with vets yesterday live vaccine isn't available at the moment only dead. Looks liken there is no plans to vacinate any cows in the future either they recone that after this out brake is over they should have natural immunity .bull**** if you ask me

ganmo

those with the immunity and the PI's but they aren't totally immune...production suffers

delaval

trixi2011 wrote: »

Had a meeting with vets yesterday live vaccine isn't available at the moment only dead. Looks liken there is no plans to vacinate any cows in the future either they recone that after this out brake is over they should have natural immunity .bull**** if you ask me

Is your performance measured in this operation?

trixi2011

delaval wrote: »

Is your performance measured in this operation?

Yes, most annoying thing is had realy good breeding season 98.8% submission rate 74% non return rate no intervention at all, first out brake started the last week of breeding.

blackdog1

trixi2011 wrote: »

Yes, most annoying thing is had realy good breeding season 98.8% submission rate 74% non return rate no intervention at all, first out brake started the last week of breeding.

I had an ibr outbreak in October. Took about 2 months with live vaccine to get everything under control. Watch out for pink eye with it. If your not vaccinating try your best to keep cows stress free. Its a bit like herpes virus stress triggers it. Try and make sure your cows diet is very good and your not stocked too high if possible . In germany they dont vaccinate , just did a culling programme. You might want to look into that. Your best bet might be to blood all animals and find pi's and cull them. At least then you have the carriers out. Good luck with it.

Oh and I treated all non youngstock with ctc powder, thought this did a great job combined with live vaccine. Quite cheap too. Gave it to calves right up to weanlings and breeding heifers.

delaval

blackdog1 wrote: »

I had an ibr outbreak in October. Took about 2 months with live vaccine to get everything under control. Watch out for pink eye with it. If your not vaccinating try your best to keep cows stress free. Its a bit like herpes virus stress triggers it. Try and make sure your cows diet is very good and your not stocked too high if possible . In germany they dont vaccinate , just did a culling programme. You might want to look into that. Your best bet might be to blood all animals and find pi's and cull them. At least then you have the carriers out. Good luck with it.

IBR, Pi?

greysides

delaval wrote: »

IBR, Pi?

I believe they have BVD in the herd too.


IBR produces a carrier in an unknown percentage of recovered cattle which will reactive shedding from them and can initiate another outbreak.
Part of the logic of vaccination is to protect animals before they can become carriers (the vaccine doesn't change that fact). Also to increase the resistance of animals exposed to carriers so they don't get infected.

Some info here.

Limofarmer

Trying to understand IBR properly here , We test once a year and never had it. Herd is negative .
So if an animal that never had it is vaccinated for ibr is it then possible for that animal to shed virus or antibody to other animals with no antibody to the virus.
Hope I explained my self properly

greysides

Limofarmer wrote: »

Trying to understand IBR properly here , We test once a year and never had it. Herd is negative .
So if an animal that never had it is vaccinated for ibr is it then possible for that animal to shed virus or antibody to other animals with no antibody to the virus.
Hope I explained my self properly

Antibody is a protein produced by cells in the body in response to a challenge. It is not transferable except by blood transfusion (or commercial sero-vaccine). Just to get definitions sorted.

If the vaccine given to a naive animal is dead it won't be spread to any other animals.

If the vaccine given to a naive animal is live then it is a weakened strain of virus but being live it can be transmitted in the normal way.

A carrier animal (to the wild virus) can shed the virus once reactivated.

A carrier animal that received the live vaccine could potentially spread both the wild and vaccine virus. However, the vaccine virus would normally be expected to reduce the chance of a carrier shedding wild virus and the amount of it if it did.

Limofarmer

Thank you for your response . The link in your previous post also makes some great reading.

trixi2011

blackdog1 wrote: »

I had an ibr outbreak in October. Took about 2 months with live vaccine to get everything under control. Watch out for pink eye with it. If your not vaccinating try your best to keep cows stress free. Its a bit like herpes virus stress triggers it. Try and make sure your cows diet is very good and your not stocked too high if possible . In germany they dont vaccinate , just did a culling programme. You might want to look into that. Your best bet might be to blood all animals and find pi's and cull them. At least then you have the carriers out. Good luck with it.

Oh and I treated all non youngstock with ctc powder, thought this did a great job combined with live vaccine. Quite cheap too. Gave it to calves right up to weanlings and breeding heifers.

Removed known pi's in Nov, bulk milk test for bvd being done again now, and if there is an indication that there is still pi,s in the herd every cows milk will be tested for Blvd at milk recording. No vacinations are going to be given for bvd so just like you mention they do in Germany cull pi,s every year before breeding.

TEAT SQUEEZER

trixi2011 wrote: »

Removed known pi's in Nov, bulk milk test for bvd being done again now, and if there is an indication that there is still pi,s in the herd every cows milk will be tested for Blvd at milk recording. No vacinations are going to be given for bvd so just like you mention they do in Germany cull pi,s every year before breeding.

you can cull till the proverbial cows come home but until you vaccinate your much more likely to be in the same boat next year .. i think u said earlier that you may have been exposed by the neighbouring farm ... thats a fact of life no-one lives in a bubble... penny pinching on your bosses part may cost them dear.. on the bvd more than likely the next gen of pi`s are gestating atm .... i`d be interested to see your scanning % ... i had conception rates in the 30`s% when in the throws of an ibr infection without massive problems re respiratory or milk drop..:mad:

blackdog1

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

you can cull till the proverbial cows come home but until you vaccinate your much more likely to be in the same boat next year .. i think u said earlier that you may have been exposed by the neighbouring farm ... thats a fact of life no-one lives in a bubble... penny pinching on your bosses part may cost them dear.. on the bvd more than likely the next gen of pi`s are gestating atm .... i`d be interested to see your scanning % ... i had conception rates in the 30`s% when in the throws of an ibr infection without massive problems re respiratory or milk drop..:mad:

I don't vaccinate for bvd. If you haven't had a pi calf in 2-3 years your better off not vaccinating for bvd. Once pi's are out your fairly safe unless neighbours have it or your buying in. In that case continue vaccination programme. This is why I think bvd should be a notifiable disease. Alot of farmers are keeping pi calves and because of this pi free neighbours still have to keep up vaccine programme which is costing them money

mf240

Had three pi calves out of less than fifty cows. They are gone to the calf house in the sky. And I blooded their mothers for Bvd and they came back negative. I never vacanated, will I be in trouble again next year?

biddy2013

mf240 wrote: »

Had three pi calves out of less than fifty cows. They are gone to the calf house in the sky. And I blooded their mothers for Bvd and they came back negative. I never vacanated, will I be in trouble again next year?

we never vaccinated either, had a pi in 2012, and that was it none since, got rid of calf straight away

bob charles

There is a big difference between eradicating BVd and IBR

blackdog1

biddy2013 wrote: »

we never vaccinated either, had a pi in 2012, and that was it none since, got rid of calf straight away

As long as you get rid of pi and mothers not a pi you should be fine. Problem is secondary contact. The mother of pi is either a pi or came in contact with a pi during pregnancy. blood testing at time of herd test is best to find out if any cow is pi. Again my problem is that if your neighbours have pi's and your herd is coming into contact with them. ..you'll get constantly re infected.

blackdog1

bob charles wrote: »

There is a big difference between eradicating BVd and IBR

Still very much do able. Germany seem to have got on top of it. Unfortunately the dept seem to be going after johnes disease next. Hopefully after johnes programme they'll deal with ibr. If we got rid of bvd ibr and johnes it would be massive for the national herds fertility.

biddy2013

blackdog1 wrote: »

As long as you get rid of pi and mothers not a pi you should be fine. Problem is secondary contact. The mother of pi is either a pi or came in contact with a pi during pregnancy. blood testing at time of herd test is best to find out if any cow is pi. Again my problem is that if your neighbours have pi's and your herd is coming into contact with them. ..you'll get constantly re infected.

yup was a strange one my da had a pi calf born the same week as mine in his herd, both mothers tested negative and no more since. We reckon it was either a positive cull cow or the neighbours

jaymla627

blackdog1 wrote: »

I don't vaccinate for bvd. If you haven't had a pi calf in 2-3 years your better off not vaccinating for bvd. Once pi's are out your fairly safe unless neighbours have it or your buying in. In that case continue vaccination programme. This is why I think bvd should be a notifiable disease. Alot of farmers are keeping pi calves and because of this pi free neighbours still have to keep up vaccine programme which is costing them money

Your actually the type of lad that should be, unless your running a 100% closed herd along with being able to guarantee that your own stock our any of your neighbours wont end-up mixing which you realistically cant, a bvd outbreak in a naive herd of cows at breeding time can be devastating.
From personal expirence had it happen here with 40 incalf heifers lost 30 out of 40 calves to bvd on top of droppping 8 grand on drugs trying to keep them alive.

TEAT SQUEEZER

jaymla627 wrote: »

Your actually the type of lad that should be, unless your running a 100% closed herd along with being able to guarantee that your own stock our any of your neighbours wont end-up mixing which you realistically cant, a bvd outbreak in a naive herd of cows at breeding time can be devastating.
From personal expirence had it happen here with 40 incalf heifers lost 30 out of 40 calves to bvd on top of droppping 8 grand on drugs trying to keep them alive.

i agree..culling is the hard bit ... vaccinating the easier option imo.. i wont stop vaccinating till the country i sbvd free which as bob says is a taller order than just ear tagging newborns ...ffs a minority of farmers are still keeping the pi`s on farm ... madness should be a compulsory destruction of all pi`s full stop.. anything else is half arsed

trixi2011

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

you can cull till the proverbial cows come home but until you vaccinate your much more likely to be in the same boat next year .. i think u said earlier that you may have been exposed by the neighbouring farm ... thats a fact of life no-one lives in a bubble... penny pinching on your bosses part may cost them dear.. on the bvd more than likely the next gen of pi`s are gestating atm .... i`d be interested to see your scanning % ... i had conception rates in the 30`s% when in the throws of an ibr infection without massive problems re respiratory or milk drop..:mad:[/quo
Breeding heifers get vaccinated as of this year and once any pi's are culled before the start of breeding should mean that pi's are irradicated in time.

delaval

We've stopped BVD vaccination as we have no Pl's in the herd.
We eat notched all animals the year before the voluntary BVD scheme came out and were 100% clear having had a massive outbreak 10 yrs earlier and had culled and vaccinated since.

We have double fence on out total bounds. We would need to be very unlucky for one of our animals to come in contact with a Pi. We haven't had a beast break in or out in several years.

TEAT SQUEEZER

delaval wrote: »

We've stopped BVD vaccination as we have no Pl's in the herd.
We eat notched all animals the year before the voluntary BVD scheme came out and were 100% clear having had a massive outbreak 10 yrs earlier and had culled and vaccinated since.

We have double fence on out total bounds. We would need to be very unlucky for one of our animals to come in contact with a Pi. We haven't had a beast break in or out in several years.

did the same in year b4 voluntary but would still see the vaccinating as the final part of controlling it ... the small outlay is an insurance imo

trixi2011

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

you can cull till the proverbial cows come home but until you vaccinate your much more likely to be in the same boat next year .. i think u said earlier that you may have been exposed by the neighbouring farm ... thats a fact of life no-one lives in a bubble... penny pinching on your bosses part may cost them dear.. on the bvd more than likely the next gen of pi`s are gestating atm .... i`d be interested to see your scanning % ... i had conception rates in the 30`s% when in the throws of an ibr infection without massive problems re respiratory or milk drop..:mad:

Well scanned the herd last week and not as bad as I thought 72% 6 week in calf rate, wont know the empty rate till the next scan bulls only taken out today so in 30 days time. have had no cases in two weeks now so hope that's it for this season.

bob charles

trixi2011 wrote: »

Well scanned the herd last week and not as bad as I thought 72% 6 week in calf rate, wont know the empty rate till the next scan bulls only taken out today so in 30 days time. have had no cases in two weeks now so hope that's it for this season.

Your vets and book men are probably high fiving each about their bonus they are going to receive by not having to vaccinate the herd