Price of beef\ cattle trade for next 6 months???

Western Pomise

So folks,
On a wet ,wild and windy January evening I will start the ball rolling, what do people think price of beef, cattle trade will be from now till mid Summer?
From my farming end have good quality April on born weanlings to show in next month or so but with the bad reports I'm hearing from trade from last week or two of 2013......I'm thinking they may have to be held for while to see if things improve.Will this brutal weather affect things as well?......
Won't go into details here but dogs on street know that certain active agents in factory trade are majorly undermining current beef price both here and in Northern Ireland by flooding market with beef on hols....we got rid of Brazilian problem and now it comes from closer to home!.....
What do people with sheds of cattle to sell think of current prices or hope of thing improving.I know factories are not willing to kill bulls at all which is a bit rich of them considering they were actively telling farmers to go that route only a few years ago.

bikes

Have 11 fresian bulls ready to go and the factories don't want them,the oldest is 24 months on the 31st. Hopefully the market picks up.

Reggie.

bikes wrote: »

Have 11 fresian bulls ready to go and the factories don't want them,the oldest is 24 months on the 31st. Hopefully the market picks up.

what about FR bullocks?

bikes

They say its the bulls that are a bad trade at the moment.

Miname

I'd say we're in for a long haul with beef prices. I have a fairly limited knowledge of beef trends but I wouldn't be surprised to see prices drop another 20 cent over the coming months.

Corkman11

Miname wrote: »

I'd say we're in for a long haul with beef prices. I have a fairly limited knowledge of beef trends but I wouldn't be surprised to see prices drop another 20 cent over the coming months.

Our uk beef producing counterparts are getting 25% more for their produce. Where are our farming lobbing union , namely the IFA???? As always structured with too many dairy farmers who don't care about beef but hope Larry Goodman keep refunding the levies he collects for them each week.
Or where is the Irish farmers journal? Great at telling us how great they were in banning Brazilian beef from the EU but afraid to name and shame Larry as the the ruination of our beef industry. Be great if Justin McCarthy came out and shared his past and present relationship with Mr Goodman, would certainly explain a lot

jomoloney

Miname wrote: »

I'd say we're in for a long haul with beef prices. I have a fairly limited knowledge of beef trends but I wouldn't be surprised to see prices drop another 20 cent over the coming months.

know a fellow who moved a double and half yesterday

never seen him empty sheds so early ,

he's reputed to fairly in toe with the factories .. must know something

tomwaterford

Corkman11 wrote: »

Our uk beef producing counterparts are getting 25% more for their produce. Where are our farming lobbing union , namely the IFA???? As always structured with too many dairy farmers who don't care about beef but hope Larry Goodman keep refunding the levies he collects for them each week.
Or where is the Irish farmers journal? Great at telling us how great they were in banning Brazilian beef from the EU but afraid to name and shame Larry as the the ruination of our beef industry. Be great if Justin McCarthy came out and shared his past and present relationship with Mr Goodman, would certainly explain a lot

Why don't beef farmers come together and form their own co-op/killing halls or organise their own live exports at 25% there would surly leave a margin if could be arranged in a large scale???
just something I do be wondering on the wet ,wild and windy January evenings

rancher

jomoloney wrote: »

know a fellow who moved a double and half yesterday

never seen him empty sheds so early ,

he's reputed to fairly in toe with the factories .. must know something

Won't be great for the next few mths with the numbers that are around any way.

Corkman11

tomwaterford wrote: »

Why don't beef farmers come together and form their own co-op/killing halls or organise their own live exports at 25% there would surly leave a margin if could be arranged in a large scale???
just something I do be wondering on the wet ,wild and windy January evenings

Well we did try to increase our exports of cattle on the hoof but our minister for ag brought that to a halt all be for a few boats, I have no doubt persuaded by our big homegrown beef baron but dressed up my our minister as something along the lines that we would be better off killing our own beef here and but some " added value to it " , yeah that's right Simon we ll break the beef producer while we boost the profits of ABP.
Great idea to have a producer / processor venture but realistally in the short term what we need is the some form of government regulation to what our current processors / supermarket chains are making on the back of the demise of our producers. The average annual income of our beef producers is somewhere around €8000. We need to make a decision or more importantly the government needs to make one. Do we need the survival of top quality food producers in this country to feed our nation or do we leave it up to the greed of rogue traders and powerful, often multi national retailers to increase their profits

blackdog1

I think were seeing the results of high calf prices 2 years ago. Not alot of dairy bull calves went for export so there is probably a glut of cattle in the country. This year prices are down for calves so were getting a huge amount of calf exports. So id say in 1-2 years the price should be very high. Maybe im wrong. But if I was in beef raising industry , now is when id be buying with fr calves going for 60-80 euro.

Muckit

Corkman11 wrote: »

Do we need the survival of top quality food producers in this country to feed our nation

Only 10% of the beef produced by the Irish beef sector at present goes for the domestic market, so we are not going to go hungry any time soon no matter how many go out of business!

freedominacup

tomwaterford wrote: »

Why don't beef farmers come together and form their own co-op/killing halls or organise their own live exports at 25% there would surly leave a margin if could be arranged in a large scale???
just something I do be wondering on the wet ,wild and windy January evenings

They did with your handle you should know. It was called Clover meats and it was a disaster from start to finish. Ended up being basically run into the ground by unions.

Corkman11

Muckit wrote: »

Only 10% of the beef produced by the Irish beef sector at present goes for the domestic market, so we are not going to go hungry any time soon no matter how many go out of business!

Correct, we are heavily reliant on our export of beef but I guess the the two points are 1. Would we not be better off buying a product that is home grown for the small amount of beef that we do consume. Will the problems that we saw in the past with pork and more recently horse meat become a part of every day life if we leave the supermarkets do as they wish. Look at the poultry sector, no shortage of chicken in this country however chances are if you buy processed chicken in a supermarket multiple its origin is outside off Ireland. Point 2 - we can't allow producers be the victim of a processors / retailers way of increasing profits. I think it's a fair comment on behalf of Irish beef producers that all we need in return of our hard work and large capital investments is a decent percentage of the final price of a excellent product purchased by the consumer be it he/ she is irish or Chinese or wherever we can send our product to. There is plenty of evidence to show that this is not happening.
You are right we are not going to be short of beef here for a long time but how many livelihoods are going to be destroyed in the mean time for the benefits of who?? Irish farmers? The greater irish agribusiness sector? The Irish consumer? The retailers balance sheet ?

ellewood

freedominacup wrote: »

They did with your handle you should know. It was called Clover meats and it was a disaster from start to finish. Ended up being basically run into the ground by unions.

Im too young to remember but never knew it was a farmers co-op meat factory.
Have heard plenty of stories of how the unions made a balls of it alright-but if you talk to anyone who worked there it was supposed to be a great place to work?

tomwaterford

Corkman11 wrote: »

Well we did try to increase our exports of cattle on the hoof but our minister for ag brought that to a halt all be for a few boats, I have no doubt persuaded by our big homegrown beef baron but dressed up my our minister as something along the lines that we would be better off killing our own beef here and but some " added value to it " , yeah that's right Simon we ll break the beef producer while we boost the profits of ABP.
Great idea to have a producer / processor venture but realistally in the short term what we need is the some form of government regulation to what our current processors / supermarket chains are making on the back of the demise of our producers. The average annual income of our beef producers is somewhere around €8000. We need to make a decision or more importantly the government needs to make one. Do we need the survival of top quality food producers in this country to feed our nation or do we leave it up to the greed of rogue traders and powerful, often multi national retailers to increase their profits

Pure disgrace if that's true,if England getting 25% extra for same product,
let the cattle away to export

freedominacup wrote: »

They did with your handle you should know. It was called Clover meats and it was a disaster from start to finish. Ended up being basically run into the ground by unions.

Agh bit before my time:D,not that old
did hear stories of relatives of mine being issued cheques for several thousand in the wrong some time in late 60s early 70s I think,
and upon returning them being told,they were one of the only ones who did return the cheque:eek:

coolshannagh28

Corkman11 wrote: »

Well we did try to increase our exports of cattle on the hoof but our minister for ag brought that to a halt all be for a few boats, I have no doubt persuaded by our big homegrown beef baron but dressed up my our minister as something along the lines that we would be better off killing our own beef here and but some " added value to it " , yeah that's right Simon we ll break the beef producer while we boost the profits of ABP.
Great idea to have a producer / processor venture but realistally in the short term what we need is the some form of government regulation to what our current processors / supermarket chains are making on the back of the demise of our producers. The average annual income of our beef producers is somewhere around €8000. We need to make a decision or more importantly the government needs to make one. Do we need the survival of top quality food producers in this country to feed our nation or do we leave it up to the greed of rogue traders and powerful, often multi national retailers to increase their profits

Agree with the jist of what you say but there is a debate to be had here ,why are beef cattle across the water making e300 more than ours ,are we comparing like with like, size, breed and grade ,are they producing an animal that better fits the premium market and commands a better price . Are we being sold short by factories buying beef cheap here and selling it cheap there ,if so it is a travesty, or is our end product best suited to processing . On a recent tour of a factory an awful lot of the product seemed to be going into burgers now it was state of the art but how much value was being added .
Is a big part of our problem poor leadership and poor advisory service we seem to have got caught up in producing massive cattle which are hard to finish and not that suited to our main market.
The level of market manipulation being carried out by the processors is a big concern ,is it a stick to beat us in a certain direction and is that a direction we should go .
Listened to Coveney on Newstalk today and he rightly was very upbeat about milk but had very little to say about beef except to big up the processors I think that says a lot.

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

They did with your handle you should know. It was called Clover meats and it was a disaster from start to finish. Ended up being basically run into the ground by unions.

I do not think it was all the unions fault, I thing their was different pricing arrangements depending on who you were. Also they were poor to sell the product.

Corkman11

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Agree with the jist of what you say but there is a debate to be had here ,why are beef cattle across the water making e300 more than ours ,are we comparing like with like, size, breed and grade ,are they producing an animal that better fits the premium market and commands a better price . Are we being sold short by factories buying beef cheap here and selling it cheap there ,if so it is a travesty, or is our end product best suited to processing . On a recent tour of a factory an awful lot of the product seemed to be going into burgers now it was state of the art but how much value was being added .
Is a big part of our problem poor leadership and poor advisory service we seem to have got caught up in producing massive cattle which are hard to finish and not that suited to our main market.
The level of market manipulation being carried out by the processors is a big concern ,is it a stick to beat us in a certain direction and is that a direction we should go .
Listened to Coveney on Newstalk today and he rightly was very upbeat about milk but had very little to say about beef except to big up the processors I think that says a lot.

All good points. To compare like with like firstly, I guess a R grade animal is a R grade animal and we have that grading system is in place rightly or wrongly in both sides of the pond.
We can only work with what we have and for us that is a growing herd of black and white dairy bred cows with male off springs. We did try to grow a beef sector from a continental type dam in sucklers but the market either wasn't ready for it as you rightly pointed out or didnt want to be ready for it. Either way without a suckler cow premium worth talking about the system is unviable with current beef prices. You made a good point and I 100% agree with you when you say " poor leadership and poor advisory " we can see this by the productivity from grange over the last decade.
Maybe you are right, maybe we have left our processors and Bord Bia with them to focus on the lower end of the product market.
Don't mention Coveney to me!

Rho b

tomwaterford wrote: »

Why don't beef farmers come together and form their own co-op/killing halls or organise their own live exports at 25% there would surly leave a margin if could be arranged in a large scale???
just something I do be wondering on the wet ,wild and windy January evenings

With regards to your comment about co-ops/killing halls - I think a better idea would be if we all came together and organised another independent entity to render/cater/process/export factory offal and take the power away from that good man enterprise. At the end of the day from what I have always understood - that is the tail that controls the dog and has done so for many years.

tabby aspreme

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I do not think it was all the unions fault, I thing their was different pricing arrangements depending on who you were. Also they were poor to sell the product.

From what I heard there was a big problem in Clover with nepotism, it was all about who you were

Western Pomise

So lads and lassies,
looking into those crystal balls can anyone see price of nice continental weanlings settling a bit over time or is all fxxxed for a few months???
Hate to 'give away' nice calves.

rancher

Western Pomise wrote: »

So lads and lassies,
looking into those crystal balls can anyone see price of nice continental weanlings settling a bit over time or is all fxxxed for a few months???
Hate to 'give away' nice calves.

Don't worry, you're selling to farmers, they all have a short memory when grass starts to grow/

tomwaterford

Rho b wrote: »

With regards to your comment about co-ops/killing halls - I think a better idea would be if we all came together and organised another independent entity to render/cater/process/export factory offal and take the power away from that good man enterprise. At the end of the day from what I have always understood - that is the tail that controls the dog and has done so for many years.

If independent entity,surly said beef barron would either rbuy them out or make it unprofitable for another operator,
if co-op exists maybe it would be better able to stand up to outside pressure

Western Pomise

Western Pomise wrote: »

So lads and lassies,
looking into those crystal balls can anyone see price of nice continental weanlings settling a bit over time or is all fxxxed for a few months???
Hate to 'give away' nice calves.

rancher wrote: »

Don't worry, you're selling to farmers, they all have a short memory when grass starts to grow/

Weanlings thriving well....with different things going on I havnt got to a mart in 2014....how has trade opened up for nice goldey Char bull and heifer calves avg weight 370 to 420 kg roughly?
Have heard heifer calves are better trade....these calves aren't overdone....just storish.

Western Pomise

Bump....anyone see trade in a mart last week or two for weanlings 300 kg plus?

Miname

Western Pomise wrote: »

Bump....anyone see trade in a mart last week or two for weanlings 300 kg plus?

ive been to a couple of mart recently and its a very good calf that makes 2.50 a kilo. dairy bred 1.20 through to 2 for good ones. Heifers a bit over 2 a kilo for nearly everything with the light ones attracting all the attention of farmers looking for a bargain, these ive seen pushed into nearly 3 per kilo. Mart trade the last week seemed sh1te and doesnt seem too positive. i seen a 600 kg limo bull today sold for 900 euro, 22 months old and still not finished. There were loads of finished bulls going through that were being sold at a little more than what they cost as weanlings.

Western Pomise

Neighbour brought three bull weanlings to Dowra on Sat,couldnt get over no of cattle there from as far over as Ballina,Sat mart suits both buyers and sellers,trade for quality bull weanlings was up at least 70 to 80 euro on previous week,said heifer weanlings were up around 20 to 30 on week before.Good to hear some bit of positivity amidst all the rain.

on the river

Western Pomise wrote: »

Neighbour brought three bull weanlings to Dowra on Sat,couldnt get over no of cattle there from as far over as Ballina,Sat mart suits both buyers and sellers,trade for quality bull weanlings was up at least 70 to 80 euro on previous week,said heifer weanlings were up around 20 to 30 on week before.Good to hear some bit of positivity amidst all the rain.

I was down their myself surprised of the selection of animals on offer . the north west does produce good livestock:)