Beginner's Questions

ankaragucu

Hi stargazers,
Taking the advice to buy binoculars first so,
What type?Spec?Who stocks them?Will a budget of approx €130-150 guarantee some interesting sights?

Where are the best dark sky locations in Ireland?I live in Dublin so not great.Go camping a bit in summer months so where best to combine that AND star gazing?

Would love to see the Milky Way, how possible is this?A work colleague said he saw it in all its glory while night fishing off Derrynane Beach one summer.

Any advice much appreciated.Would love to get my two kids interested too by being able to show them something worth seeing.

ThunderCat

Wise choice starting with binouclars

Ok so what you will need starting off is either a pair of 10x50 or 8x40. These numbers relate to the magnification of the binoculars and the size of the lens. The bigger the lens, the more light will be gathered and more light means a brighter image. Other factors are involved too but thats a basic understanding of it. The magnification is basically how close an object will appear. An object will appear closer in 10x binoculars vs 8x binoculars but there isnt an awful lot between the two and magnification isnt everything because for one thing its harder to hold steady the higher you go and also magnification needs to be in proportion to the lens size. Too much magnification in a small lens means dull and unstatifying views.

So in my opinion you should opt for an 8x40 set of bincoulars seeing as you mentioned you wanted to get your children involved too. An 8x40 set means they will be able to hold it reasonably steady, as will you, and for your price bracket you should opt for a porro prism design as they pack more for the money than roof prism at your budget. What you also want is for the binoculars to have BAK4 prisms as these let in more light than BAK7 prisms and you also want the optics to be fully multi coated. If you wear glasses then you also need ones that offer a large amount of eye relief. Not an issue if you dont wear glasses.

So 8x40, porro prism, BAK4, fully multicoated bincoulars would be my recommendation. Buy as close to your budget ceiling as you can and avoid any models than feature the word zoom. Buying online is always an option and reviews from other people can help make up your mind, but it might also be a good choice for you to go into a camera store and try a few. Online is usually cheaper however.
And you will be amazed at how the night sky appears through your new binoculars. Plenty of things to see that you will never have seen before - the moons craters for example as well as the moons of Jupiter.

As for viewing the Milky Way, its possible on any clear night, even in Dublin. You just have to move away from the street lights. Doesnt have to be far. Even the local beach or middle of a football pitch or a park will do. Give your eyes time to adapt to the dark and it will appear as a faint thin cloud stretching across the sky. Just dont expect to be able to see it as it appears in astonomy magazines.

Good luck, hope this helps.

ankaragucu

Thanks a lot ThunderCat!From my research I see the brand names Celestron,Orion,Meade come up a lot.I am considering the Celestron Skymaster range.Tempting as it is to go bigger I take your advice re the 10 «» 50 size.They would be just so much more manageable.I wouldn't want to spend our first night out having to mount something bigger on a tripod.
Thanks again for your help.

ps200306

Although it doesn't sound like much, there's a big difference between x50 and x40 ... more than 50% greater light gathered. I would have said 9x50 if you can find them.

Also, my experience is that higher end binoculars aren't close to being worth the money for astronomy -- my €200 Bushnells certainly aren't. If you're trying to start a fun hobby see if you can find Lidl's perfectly serviceable 20 euro ones. You'll buy three sets for you and the kids for half your budget, and you don't have to worry about them getting knocked around. I bought multiple sets so I can just hand them out to anyone interested.

Ideally, borrow someone else's binoculars before you buy, just in case you're operating under any illusion that you're going to see surface detail on planets, or that multi-coated optical fantasticness is going to make the stars look like anything more than pinpricks of light. At best an expensive pair of binoculars is going to give you a fractionally sharper image and a fraction of an extra magnitude of visibility -- much less than the typical variation in seeing from night to night will do anyway. Actually, my expensive binoculars have worse chromatic aberration than the Lidl ones.

Regarding your question about where to view from, and what you will see ... have a look at http://www.need-less.org.uk/ ... about half way down that page see the "Night Sky Simulator". It's fiddly but you can pan and zoom in on the map and see the variation in viewing from different locations. It gives my regular viewing location -- on the coast halfway between Gorey and Wexford -- a limiting visual magnitude of 5.85, which is probably about right. From anywhere with that kind of LV mag you will easily see a very impressive Milky Way on a clear night. I haven't seen it from the Dublin suburbs since I was a kid, decades ago. Also, some people suggest going up the mountains to get away from Dublin lights, but it's the last place I'd go ... yes it's dark but it's also several times more likely to be cloudy.

ankaragucu

Thanks for that ps.I bought a pair of Celestron Skymaster 15 ~ 70 bins on Saturday last.Yes bigger than I planned but tempted by the bigger lenses.Plus having seen them priced at up to €149 in some places I got them at Scopes And Space for €99.I will still watch to see if Lidl bring back their 10 ~ 50s and get a pair of them too.
Now the verdict so far on the ones I bought.I didn't have unreasonable expectations of what ANY pair of bins could show me.I'd be the same with telescopes too, unless it was the Hubble!Anyway, first off, the amount of EXTRA stars visible was shocking, in a good way.In fact it made some constellations more difficult to discern on account of all the extra background stars.The Plough being an example, took me a minute or so.I got my first look at the Orion Nebula which is startling when you consider how little is seen with the naked eye.The same for Pleiades, that was impressive too.Jupiter seemed more like a planet than a star through the bins too.Finally the moon.I first looked at it in the late afternoon Saturday when it was still light.The level of detail was great andI noticed something I'd never seen before.The curviture wasn't smooth all the way around.At about 10 o' clock there was an obvious ridge protruding.I mean 10 o' clock as in the north west edge.Probably describing something there that all amateur astronomers know and have a name for but I'm a total novice so forgive me!Still it was a first for me.Last night a shooting star streamed across my field of vision of the bins which looked great and totally unexpected.
I was out my back garden last night and Saturday for 15 minutes each time just holding the bins.My arms started to tire by then of course so a tripod is next on the list for me.I don't mind that at all because I've quickly realised that 15 minutes isn't going to do it for me!
Overall so, very happy with the purchase.They DO need a tripod for longer viewing but I'm now gagging to experience that in a real dark sky location.Where is a good spot around Dublin?And for a longer trip, around Ireland?

ps200306

Glad you had a good experience. The Pleiades is a great target because you just see more and more the bigger the aperture of your bins/scope. The star fields in the dense parts of the Milky Way are like that too -- it makes you gasp the first time you resolve them into clouds of stars. You'll have to wait for summer for the best view of that, when you can see where it passes through Cygnus and Sagittarius.

That ragged edge on the moon you're seeing is hills rising above lava plains, probably around the Oceanus Procellarum, judging from your description. At different phases of the moon you'll see different "protruberances and sinuosities", as Galileo called them. When it's about half full there's a good view when Tycho's crater is on the limb. That's the big rayed crater down toward the Moon's "south pole". If you're lucky enough to get to see a lunar eclipse through binoculars, you can see the shadow of the earth climb up the hillsides and down into the craters.

Have a read of Galileo's Siderius Nuncius ... he was the first person to see all the stuff you've just seen, and with more primitive equipment. It's a quick read, only half an hour or so, and really gives you an idea of his interpretive genius.

Btw, catching a shooting star in the binoculars was lucky ... it's quite a rare event.

For a dark spot, use your common sense. You'll find that the sky is not uniformly clear, even when you think it's cloud free. There's always some level of haze in Irish skies, and this dramatically increases the effects of light pollution. When the atmosphere is fairly milky you'll easily see the glow of Dublin lights from 20 miles away, whereas when it's clearer the glow doesn't stretch so far up the sky. As a rough estimate, try to put yourself more than five miles from any town with a population above a few thousand. Unfortunately, Dublin's a right PITA in this regard. From experience, you can get decent views off the M1 half way between Balbriggan and Drogheda (both of which cause their own light pollution), around the Hill of Tara on the M3, west of Maynooth on the M4, Blessington on the N81, and south of Kilcoole on the M11 (as long as you stay well clear of the large towns -- Wicklow, Arklow etc.). Have a look at a sky map and pick some easily identifiable constellations containing stars of 3rd to 6th magnitude. You can use their visibility (or otherwise) as a guide to how good your seeing is. When you get used to this, you'll be amazed how quickly the sky can change, even over the course of a few minutes and without any obvious cloud encroaching. That Irish water vapour is a scourge!

Nerro

Tripod is recommended no matter what size binos you have, your hands start to shake after a while no matter how fit you are.you can get a decent second hand on adverts.ie for next to nothing.there is plenty of them. And don't forget an adapter
www.ktectelescopes.ie/Astronomy-Binoculars/Revelation-Binoculars/Revelation-Heavy-Duty-Binocular-L-adapter.html
Like one of these or you can even make one yourself if you have time and tools.
Plus there is "binocular challenge" on ifas site with plenty of targets for you to try to find them in the sky or you can buy "turn left at Orion" book.its highly recommended for any amateur astronomer to have it on the shelf.

ankaragucu

Thanks again ps for your very informative post.The ragged edge on the moon as you described it is exactly what I meant, it does look ragged.I've downloaded the Galileo piece you gave me for later reading, in work now!

Checked out the light pollution satellite photos online and out west seems to have the best dark skies.I was thinking maybe somewhere off the N2 after Ashbourne could be a good location.We go camping a bit during summer months so will now factor stargazing into our decisions as to where to go.

Nerro, thanks too for the info.I priced a tripod when buying the Celestrons, the cheapest they had was €69.The guy said it was compatible with my bins.I'll check out the address you gave me.