House extension without planning

Prunchais

I am currently buying a house in ballyfermot dublin it has an extension built to the back which does not have planning it is a one bed flat , and has a separate meter . The seller claims it is up ten years and the fact it is over seven years I don't have to worry about planning permission , can anyone shed some light on this ,i would be greatfull

Sir Arthur Daley

Approach with caution on this one, would you have to pay two household charges since there are two meters?

January

Moved from Dublin City to Construction & Planning.

DOCARCH

A seperate flat, like you have described, would/could not be considered an exempt development, it would require planning permission.

No matter how long it has been there, the title of the property is not 'clean', from a planning point of view, and if you want to retain the flat, retention planning permission should be applied for (by the vendor) or the vendor could of course knock through and make the structure an actual/bona fida extension to the existing house.

Either way, this will need to be 'regularised' before you buy the property, especially if you are borrowing money to make the purchase.

Prunchais

WikiHow wrote: »

Approach with caution on this one, would you have to pay two household charges since there are two meters?

I wouldn't mind what worries me is the council could make me demolish it .

Sir Arthur Daley

Prunchais wrote: »

I wouldn't mind what worries me is the council could make me demolish it .

You would surely get retention on it worst case scenario.

DOCARCH

Prunchais wrote: »

I wouldn't mind what worries me is the council could make me demolish it .

The Council could not make you demolish it.

This needs to be dealt with by the vendor prior to any sale being finalised.

DOCARCH

WikiHow wrote: »

You would surely get retention on it worst case scenario.

The only way I could foresee something like this getting retention permission is if it was turned into a 'granny flat', i.e. with a direct connection/door to the existing house.

As stated above, the vendor really needs to sort this out.

Sir Arthur Daley

The council have the power to demolish the extension if they wish to, as previously said it needs to be finalisied before sale.

Prunchais

Prunchais wrote: »

I wouldn't mind what worries me is the council could make me demolish it .

It's up to the seller to apply for retention. If they're not willing to do so, I'd not proceed. If, as he claims it's exempt, surely he's no problem. As others have said, proceed with extreme caution.

DOCARCH

WikiHow wrote: »

The council have the power to demolish the extension if they wish to, as previously said it needs to be finalisied before sale.

If the structure is there more than 7 years, the Council cannot do anything about it/take enforcement action (to have the structure demolished)...that's what the vendor is getting at...but...that does not make the structure legal, so, it can't really be sold with a clean title (and a clean title is what your solicitor and/or lending institution will/should be looking for).

Sir Arthur Daley

The council will claim the building is less than 7 years old, who can argue with them?

BryanF

Prunchais wrote: »

I am currently buying a house in ballyfermot dublin it has an extension built to the back which does not have planning ...........I don't have to worry about planning permission , can anyone shed some light on this ,i would be greatfull

you are correct! you dont have to worry about planning.

the seller worries about regulating the planning.

dont make it your problem

Gumbo

WikiHow wrote: »

The council will claim the building is less than 7 years old, who can argue with them?

There will be a heap of evidence to prove otherwise if you were to fight it. Even old family photographs can be used to prove a structure is in place before a particular date.

The council will not proceed with an enforcement action based on the argument of "well let's pretend it's up less than 7 years" .

Corkblowin

Google earth can be your friend in these cases - the historic satellite images are the place to start

4Sticks

The biggest threat in these cases in my opinion is not enforcement action by local authorities. It is the non action of lending institutions i.e. they will not lend money on such structures. My advice to the OP - keep looking. Don't clock up fees , legal and other , waiting for the inevitable to happen.

stock>

Tell the seller he must regularize the planning prior to the sale going ahead or you will have to do it and that a whole different problem as you may not have access to the records to prove when it was constructed..................

Amateurrunner

Can someone please give me some clarity on this? I just got the keys to a 3 bed semi with a garage to the side. The house currently has a sitting room to the front and back with a small kitchen. My plan was to build a 40m2 kitchen extension and turn the current kitchen into a shower room and small utility space. My brother was in the house yesterday and he thinks I can only build 12m2 without planning as my house is semi detached and he said only detached houses can go 40m2 without planning. Can someone please explain what I can do without planning?

BryanF

Amateurrunner wrote: »

Can someone please give me some clarity on this? I just got the keys to a 3 bed semi with a garage to the side. The house currently has a sitting room to the front and back with a small kitchen. My plan was to build a 40m2 kitchen extension and turn the current kitchen into a shower room and small utility space. My brother was in the house yesterday and he thinks I can only build 12m2 without planning as my house is semi detached and he said only detached houses can go 40m2 without planning. Can someone please explain what I can do without planning?

Read the section covering exempted development for extensions. The limit is 40m2 subject to certain conditions and assumes the house hasn't been extended before. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

Amateurrunner

Thanks BryanF I've read it and I'm confident I don't need planning.

BryanF

Amateurrunner wrote: »

Thanks BryanF I've read it and I'm confident I don't need planning.

Judging by your other thread, you could do with an architects advice on the extensions space planning.

Amateurrunner

If I had endless funds I'd totally get an architects advice and I would have loved to get a space on the Simon community charity event a few weeks ago to meet with one for 50euro but I have a whole house to renovate including rewire, new boiler, new piping, new radiators, skimming all the walls, painting every wall, two new bathrooms, new kitchen, new floors, new front door, furniture and appliances for the full house so my budget doesn't stretch to an architect. The builder did extensions in two of my sisters houses which helps too.

van_beano

From my tuppence worth having just gone through the successful planning phase and moving on to the construction phase tomorrow. I needed planning on a 64m2 two storey side and single storey rear, council charge €85.05 per m2 over 40m2 as a levy, in my case 64m2 - 40m2 = 24m2, just over €2,000 to the council as a financial contribution. Previous extensions on the house could eat into your 40m2 allowance.

From my recollection, you're allowed 20m2 single storey rear before you need planning. If you're going out the front or side regardless of storeys you're going to need planning. Also there's a minimum amount of garden space required left over, councils don't allow your whole back garden to be built on.

I'm open to correction on anything I just said though!

BryanF

van_beano wrote: »

From my recollection, you're allowed 20m2 single storey rear before you need planning. If you're going out the front or side regardless of storeys you're going to need planning. Also there's a minimum amount of garden space required left over, councils don't allow your whole back garden to be built on.

I'm open to correction on anything I just said though!

40msq

Gumbo

Amateurrunner wrote: »

Can someone please give me some clarity on this? I just got the keys to a 3 bed semi with a garage to the side. The house currently has a sitting room to the front and back with a small kitchen. My plan was to build a 40m2 kitchen extension and turn the current kitchen into a shower room and small utility space. My brother was in the house yesterday and he thinks I can only build 12m2 without planning as my house is semi detached and he said only detached houses can go 40m2 without planning. Can someone please explain what I can do without planning?

I think you would have to minus the area of the converted garage from the 40 sq. M and this is what you can build to the rear.

I Think you really need professional advice here as if you take the word of an Internet forum, said forum will not help you in any enforcement or retention issues.

Spark Plug

4Sticks wrote: »

The biggest threat in these cases in my opinion is not enforcement action by local authorities. It is the non action of lending institutions i.e. they will not lend money on such structures. My advice to the OP - keep looking. Don't clock up fees , legal and other , waiting for the inevitable to happen.

True but if the OP is a cash buyer it's the perfect opportunity to chip the price. You can always regularise the planning yourself . If a structure is subject to unauthorised development even where the 7yrs has passed and is subject to CPO you will not get the full value of the property just something else to bear in mind