British mandarins wanted walled Republican ghettos in The North

WilyCoyote

Great lateral thinking from the self-styled 'cradle of democracy'. Exposing the hypocritical myth of British justice and fair play:


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/uk-officials-considered-walled-ghetto-for-catholics-29884724.html

Daqster

Didn't know Britain was hot enough to grow mandrians.

LordSutch

Greenhouse?

MadsL

But nordies ended up buiding their own, everytime I was up there the "peace walls" get higher in both traditions. Ain't the UK Govt building them...

Birneybau

The Mandarin Order.

My name is URL

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Great lateral thinking from the self-styled 'cradle of democracy'. Exposing the hypocritical myth of British justice and fair play:

Plenty of stuff does that, but this proposal wasn't one of those things. It states in the article that the idea was 'quickly rejected' and that 'while moving half-a-million people -- mostly Catholics -- might be acceptable for a totalitarian regime, human rights arguments would be an obstacle'

That line kinda suggests to me that the proposal was treated with utter contempt and not taken seriously by those who were tasked with considering it.

Frank Black

I can tell this thread will be a Shinner Jizz Fest.

galwayrush

So ,were the British Mandarins .....Orange ?

artanevilla

A lot of the republican/nationalist/loyalist areas are basically like ghettos anyway.

endacl

galwayrush wrote: »

So ,were the British Mandarins .....Orange ?

Yep. Smaller and sweeter too.

My name is URL

Frank Black wrote: »

I can tell this thread will be a Shinner Jizz Fest.

Well in fairness.. you seem to view any sort of discussion about historical matters involving Britain as 'shinner jizz fests' if people aren't tonguing the collective arsehole of the Empire.

WilyCoyote

My name is URL wrote: »

Plenty of stuff does that, but this proposal wasn't one of those things. It states in the article that the idea was 'quickly rejected' and that 'while moving half-a-million people -- mostly Catholics -- might be acceptable for a totalitarian regime, human rights arguments would be an obstacle'

That line kinda suggests to me that the proposal was treated with utter contempt and not taken seriously by those who were tasked with considering it.

The very fact that it reached Thatcher's desk meant that it was discussed at the highest level before passing onto the great lady's desk.

WilyCoyote

galwayrush wrote: »

So ,were the British Mandarins .....Orange ?

Perhaps. Although I've never heard of a Mandarin Bastard

Donkey Oaty

He suggested three options for repartition, including one which would cede over half of the geographical area of Northern Ireland to the Republic, reducing its population to one million -- 73.5pc of which would be Protestant.

Pretty radical stuff, coming from advisors to HMG.

Added on Edit: Could they actually have done this without the permission of the Irish government, other than saying "It's yours now..."?

WilyCoyote

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Pretty radical stuff, coming from advisors to HMG.

Added on Edit: Could they actually have done this without the permission of the Irish government, other than saying "It's yours now..."?

I didn't think they asked the Irish if it was OK to invade. Likewise, did they ask the Iraqis or Afghanis or Chinese for that matter if they minded them pulling out

My name is URL

WilyCoyote wrote: »

The very fact that it reached Thatcher's desk meant that it was discussed at the highest level before passing onto the great lady's desk.

.. and despite the reputation that she and her cabinet had, and their attitude towards the issue of NI; it was still rejected in a way which appears to have mocked the idea put forward.

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Pretty radical stuff, coming from advisors to HMG.

Radical ideas like that are dreamt up all the time by advisers.

You should look into 'Operation Northwoods' if you want to see some truly insane ideas.

Operation Northwoods was a series of false flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962, but were rejected by the Kennedy administration. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit perceived acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro

MadsL

My name is URL wrote: »

.. and despite the reputation that she and her cabinet had, and their attitude towards the issue of NI;

Was this before or after some nordie lads blew her up, I heard that colours your opinions a tad?

WilyCoyote

Ah Jasus URL ........... you aren't saying that these fellows aren't driven by the sanest notions:
Wiki: The Men Who Stare at Goats (2004) is a book by Jon Ronson about the U.S. Army's exploration of New Age concepts and the potential military applications of the paranormal. The title refers to attempts to kill goats by staring at them. Research was carried out in part by Jon Ronson, but also by documentary filmmaker John Sergeant.[1]

Donkey Oaty

[QUOTE=My name is URL;88287578
Radical ideas like that are dreamt up all the time by advisers.

You should look into 'Operation Northwoods' if you want to see some truly insane ideas.[/QUOTE]

Yes, indeed. I'm well aware of Operation Northwoods, but I think this is still an unusual proposal in the context of what was going on in the UK government at the time.

They were clearly desperate for some sort of solution or way of moving on.

Karl Stein

MadsL wrote: »

But nordies ended up buiding their own, everytime I was up there the "peace walls" get higher in both traditions. Ain't the UK Govt building them...

The British Govt/state was instrumental in creating, underpinning and sustaining the sectarian state from day one - the 'peace walls' are its legacy.

Love this bit:

However, officials later noted that while moving half-a-million people -- mostly Catholics -- might be acceptable for a totalitarian regime, human rights arguments would be an obstacle.

Not that half a million people would have suffered from psychological trauma, violence and murder but that 'human rights arguments would be an obstacle'.

Despicable.

anncoates

Must have been hell for the Ra heads feigning tedium and disinterest and telling everybody to "get over it" and it "was history" during the dissident bombings until a topic like this appeared to revitalise the old discursive spirit.

wazky

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Not that half a million people would have suffered from psychological trauma, violence and murder but that 'human rights arguments would be an obstacle'.

Despicable.

Since when did human rights influence them?

J_E

Religion is why we can't have nice things...

WilyCoyote

wazky wrote: »

Since when did human rights influence them?

Human Rights? Never. It was the fall out that would seriously fuck up their image abroad

WilyCoyote

Cydoniac wrote: »

Religion is why we can't have nice things...

Don't know about that. The Vatican has some nice baubles

Karl Stein

anncoates wrote: »

Must have been hell for the Ra heads...

What RA heads? 'The RA' are but a memory except to some who are still fighting them in their tiny minds.

anncoates

Carlos Roca wrote: »

What RA heads? 'The RA' are but a memory except to some who are still fighting them in their tiny minds.

If they are, then surely 30 year old state papers are too?

Who's the Grand Master of the Mandarin order?

I guess it's not the most appeeling job..

anncoates

My mate from ardoyne is annoyed. He said he could have bought duty free every time he visited friends in Andy town.

P_1

TBH I'm amazed this 'idea' made it as high up as it did and the person who came up with it didn't end up overseeing the annual bonny baby contests

Karl Stein

anncoates wrote: »

If they are, then surely 30 year old state papers are too?

The RA's history is pretty plain to see - they were a lethal paramilitary outfit - nobody tries to paint them as the Salvation Army. Some of our Empire apologist goons here would have you believe the British were acting as peace-keepers instead of running their own version of 'The RA' the FRU (leaving aside loyalist murder gangs and collusion).

You know all this though - you just felt your axe had become dull and needed a little grinding.

Whataboutery notwithstanding, have you anything to say about, you know, the OP?

humanji

Carlos Roca wrote: »

The RA's history is pretty plain to see - they were a lethal paramilitary outfit - nobody tries to paint them as the Salvation Army. Some of our Empire apologist goons here would have you believe the British were acting as peace-keepers instead of running their own version of 'The RA' the FRU (leaving aside loyalist murder gangs and collusion).

You know all this though - you just felt your axe had become dull and needed a little grinding.

Whataboutery notwithstanding, have you anything to say about, you know, the OP?

This post pretty much sums up why NI topics can't be discussed in After Hours. There's a new NI sub-forum over in the Politics forum if people want to discuss the topic politely.