Teaching Council given new powers?

picturehangup

As someone recently correctly predicted on the now-closed HRA thread recently, once HRA was accepted, then the powers given to TC would be greatly enhanced. It seems that no time is being wasted here by Mr. Quinn.
www/teachingcouncil.ie/latest-news/teaching council welcome proposed amendments in Fitness to Teach


Apologies, if this link has not displayed accurately, my first time to do this.
Can't believe this is all happening so quickly, so many questions.

Who will determine if a teacher is fit/unfit?
What are the criteria? Where are these stated? Long-term illness? Poor results? Frequent absence?
Parental complaints? One complaint? How many complaints?
What if you have a weak class, and they all pass, but no A's or B's, will this impinge negatively on your teaching record, even though their results could be considered a huge success, given the potential of the class
What is the role of the inspectorate in this process?
What is the role of management in this process?
Is this not giving more power to parents with unrealistic expectations?

Apparently, the ASTI have welcomed this move. No surprise.

Thoughts, anyone?

puca13

You are right, all the above questions and more to be answered. As usual we find this out from the media. We are going to be under the scrutiny of every Tom, Dick and Harry. It's beginning to look like Big Brother.

picturehangup

yes, puca 13, and all from a quango who only write to me to request 65 euro per annum. TC has been in existence since 2006, and what have they achieved thus far?
Nada, IMHO.

Peter Flynt

A number of issues here.

The ASTI welcoming this is no surprise - yet another reason, in their minds, where you might need them. God knows there are few reasons left for remaining with the ASTI or any of the other teaching unions. I left the ASTI the day after the Haddington Road third vote.

How is it decided whether someone is incompetent or not?

The Inspectorate number around 120 - so there are no numbers there to provide a continuous professional assessment of every teacher in the state. You'd need to have thousands of inspectors for that.

So a parent rings up the Teaching Council shortly and demands an investigation into a teacher. The Teaching Council will, presumably, be responsible for investigating such a complaint [using financial resources provided by teachers].

What happens if the parent has a grudge or is listening to gossip & hearsay?

puca13

We are the slaves of the education system now. Fair enough, we are expected to do our job and do it well, but along the way we will always meet students with whom we will have our battles. These battles are because we simply want the best for the students in question. One would worry about this new "complaints" system.

It could very easily turn into teacher bashing. We are left very vulnerable here. I try to do my job as best as I can. I work long hours in the evening (notes and corrections) but I have encountered parents who who have refused to believe me when I have had to complain about their son/ daughter in terms of behaviour or simply not doing their homework.

What do you reckon? Will, "Well, I'll just get my mother to ring the Teaching Council then", be ringing in our ears when we reprimand a student for not agreeing with the rules of the classroom???

picturehangup

Puca, what you describe are occupational hazards which are going to increase, and, I agree, it is not possible to 'get on' with every student. So, if a student perceives that he or she has been rightly or wrongly given a raw deal, they will get mum or dad to pursue an investigation via the TC. One can only hope, that like the Medical Council, the TC will be able to separate the hopefully very, very few genuine complaints from the more frivolous type. However, I don't hold my breath, and I have no faith in the TC. What steps will be taken to protect, and who will protect teachers?

byhookorbycrook

More scary for me is the proposal that schools will decide how to allocate class size/resource teachers/SNAs from a budget.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-to-decide-own-class-size-and-teacher-numbers-29884723.html

"I think we should begin to pilot a block grant for schools and they determine how many frontline teachers they want, how many SNAs (Special Needs Assistants), how many resource teachers or what skills mix," he(Howlin) added."
So, fire all the postholders, don't hire older teachers on a higher salary scale and sacrifice SNAs/resource etc for smaller class sizes.
Why do we continue to ape systems that have failed elsewhere??

rainbowtrout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

More scary for me is the proposal that schools will decide how to allocate class size/resource teachers/SNAs from a budget.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-to-decide-own-class-size-and-teacher-numbers-29884723.html

"I think we should begin to pilot a block grant for schools and they determine how many frontline teachers they want, how many SNAs (Special Needs Assistants), how many resource teachers or what skills mix," he(Howlin) added."
So, fire all the postholders, don't hire older teachers on a higher salary scale and sacrifice SNAs/resource etc for smaller class sizes.
Why do we continue to ape systems that have failed elsewhere??

This is far worse than the whole regulation of teacher performance. Why do we consistently ape the education policies of the UK, particularly when they have been in place over there for a long time and are shown not to work, it's only when they change their policy that we adopt it.

Postholders won't be fired, employment law will still come into it, but if this plan is ever rolled out and schools are hiring based on budgets it could come down to 'we can hire 1 teacher for 50k or 2 teachers for 25k each' based on the point they are currently at on the salary scale, to maximise the number of hours that can be provided but at a detriment to teaching experience.

The current goverment are doing their very best to dismantle our education system.

worseforwear

picturehangup wrote: »

Puca, what you describe are occupational hazards which are going to increase, and, I agree, it is not possible to 'get on' with every student. So, if a student perceives that he or she has been rightly or wrongly given a raw deal, they will get mum or dad to pursue an investigation via the TC. One can only hope, that like the Medical Council, the TC will be able to separate the hopefully very, very few genuine complaints from the more frivolous type. However, I don't hold my breath, and I have no faith in the TC. What steps will be taken to protect, and who will protect teachers?

I wouldn't take too much notice to this latest announcement. Its just ruari searching for more populist comment just like the uniforms (non issue). Term "red herring"come to mind. It certainly won't apply to the vast vast majority of teachers. Anybody making a genuine effort to do their job needn't be the slightest bit concerned. I reckon that its giving a means of dealing with gross under performance and negligence by a teacher short of sacking them, which is virtually impossible.
That would be the level they would be looking. There would be a lot of intervention before it would get this far. Probably the equivalent of what a doctor would need to be removed from their register.

worseforwear

rainbowtrout wrote: »

This is far worse than the whole regulation of teacher performance. Why do we consistently ape the education policies of the UK, particularly when they have been in place over there for a long time and are shown not to work, it's only when they change their policy that we adopt it.

Postholders won't be fired, employment law will still come into it, but if this plan is ever rolled out and schools are hiring based on budgets it could come down to 'we can hire 1 teacher for 50k or 2 teachers for 25k each' based on the point they are currently at on the salary scale, to maximise the number of hours that can be provided but at a detriment to teaching experience.

Id agree with you here, principals couldn't be in a position to determine people's salaries.
Imagine the mayhem, also it would lead to the end of teachers becoming principals you would see people from outside education system taking up those jobs. A completely different skill set would become priority. Its another unfortunate symptom of having a minister that never stood in the classroom. Come on enda time to shuffle the pack..... we can't keep getting the useless cards.

spurious

worseforwear wrote: »

Imagine the mayhem, also it would lead to the end of teachers becoming principals you would see people from outside education system taking up those jobs. A completely different skill set would become priority.

There is at least one case I know of where this has already happened. Not in a mainstream school, but it's already here.

whiteandlight

This kind of stuff from Ruairi Quinn really does concern me.

I love teaching. I have an excellent degree, PGDE, am enthusiastic about my subjects, do lots of extracurricular and hell I even write books in my spare time that I provide free of charge to my students (apart from the school copying charge). My students and their parents, in general get along well with me.

However, there is always the odd student who dislikes you, your methods, school itself or maybe even just the subject. A comment, a 'slightly later than usual' corrected test or a poor exam etc etc can suddenly become massive problems. Couple that student with the correct type of parent and between them they can cause hell, particularly if provided with a platform like the TC to soapbox on.

This is the type of article that inspires me to keep up my practise in programming and to be open to other careers out there instead of in anyway inspiring me to teach better

Peter Flynt

Musicmental85 wrote: »

This kind of stuff from Ruairi Quinn really does concern me.

I love teaching. I have an excellent degree, PGDE, am enthusiastic about my subjects, do lots of extracurricular and hell I even write books in my spare time that I provide free of charge to my students (apart from the school copying charge). My students and their parents, in general get along well with me.

However, there is always the odd student who dislikes you, your methods, school itself or maybe even just the subject. A comment, a 'slightly later than usual' corrected test or a poor exam etc etc can suddenly become massive problems. Couple that student with the correct type of parent and between them they can cause hell, particularly if provided with a platform like the TC to soapbox on.

This is the type of article that inspires me to keep up my practise in programming and to be open to other careers out there instead of in anyway inspiring me to teach better

I could have written the opening part of your post there - God knows there are thousands of hours I've done separate to teaching.

Let me give an example of what occurred in this academic year - A student I teach in sixth year has a parent with whom, shall we say, I've had "history" with. It began at Junior Cert but carried on into LC at the beginning of fifth year. I don't use textbooks as I use my own materials and resources for LC Chemistry [resources that have taken thousands of hours to build up and maintain]

Now at the beginning of 5th year this parent was on to me, by phone, to enquire as to why I wasn't using a textbook [the only parent in all my years teaching to do so]. They then enquired why I recommended a textbook [which was optional]. I was then asked why I wasn't reading out my own notes in class. . . . You can see this parent wanted control of me and my class from the outset.

Fast forward to sixth year. I give about 7/8 tests to sixth years to prepare them for their LC Exam. The first test this parent's child got 30%. Two days later the parent/child went examining my marking scheme and the child approached me looking for marks which were not warranted and which would not be acceptable in an honours LC Chemistry Exam

Three days later the same student arrived for class ten minutes late [not for the first time] with no homework done. I informed the student that, perhaps, her lack of work ethic could be responsible for her not passing her exam. Of course all hell broke loose. . . The student walked out of my class promising me, or rather threatening me, with "I'll get me Ma after you"

Sure enough the "Ma" did turn up . . . At 3PM that day to arrive at the Principals Office to have a word to sort me out. The next day the Principal spoke to me first thing. Then a meeting was arranged between me, the P/DP and the parent at my request.

What happened next was as follows - I was aggressively accused of not giving encouragement, of "protecting your own arse", of being "out of order", of being "a bully" [at which point the Principal intervened].

To cut a long story short the Principal offered to transfer the student to another Chemistry class [where my notes and resources are used] at no cost to the student in terms of coverage of the syllabus.

The parent refused stating. . "NO - Why should she move?. . . In fairness to him he's an excellent teacher"

So things carried on with an apology. . .

Fast forward to yesterday and I see this picture of Quinn posing to the media under a headline of "sanctions for underperforming teachers"



Now how would things in my case have panned out with the Teaching Council?

My own view is that Quinn is using the media for his own beneficial gain in order to curry favour with parents . . . just like the school uniforms issue. He grabbed the headlines on a slow news day in early January. 20 days after he took on the role of Education minister he appointed the former Editor of the Independent, John Walshe, as his "advisor on around 90K a year.

Walshe and Quinn played a predominant role in shamelessly attacking the teaching profession when the ASTI rejected Croke Park/Haddington Road for a second time. The threats emanated from them to secure a YES and. . . . the threats are carrying on since then.

Quinn is enjoying his role in Education more than he ever expected to. I believe also that he's trying to hold onto his job as there are rumours of a reshuffle this year with some younger TDs replacing old fogies like Quinn.. . . and he appears to think that the best way to do this is to undermine the people at the heart of delivery within the profession - the teachers.

In a nutshell Quinn has no respect for the teaching profession.