Are men getting the short end of the stick in traditional marriages?

wolfmanjack

Conversation that started during Christmas day and while I was at first a bit offended by the comments which were made by the elderly members of the family, the more I thought about it, the reason I think I was offended is because deep down I think it's true. I have two children, my mother had four and when I make a comparison I really don't know how she did it. My mum had four kids all within two years of each other in age, a husband, a house which she kept spick and span, cooked every day, went shopping with no car, had a Saturday job and she baked her own bread and scones all the time!

After I thought about it I started to reflect on my own situation, I work full time in a 9-5 job, home before 6pm every day. My OH, stays at home and takes care of the two children who are in the Creché until 2pm. My wife has about four hours mon - fri alone with the kids but the house is always in a mess and she constantly tells me how busy she is. We even got a cleaning lady once per week but there is still crap every where and when I come home in the evenings I also engage with the kids. Whenever I or any male tries to challenge or ask why things around the house aren't done differently we're immediately branded as chauvinist, so we just have to go along with the notion that you can't criticise a woman who stays at home and minds children even though they may not be doing a very good job. Myself and my OH made an agreement that I would work and she would stay at home because she didn't exactly have a glittering career ahead of her and her earning capacity wasn't even close to mine. But what is starting to irk me is the fact that the kids are constantly used as a excuse for things not being done and any level of criticism is responded to by being a chauvinist etc.

I looked at some acquaintances who have a similar arrangement to ourselves and it's the same story. You go over to the house for a visit and the place is a mess, they have 1 or 2 kids, he works she doesn't and the topic of conversation invariably turns to how tough it is with the kids and how difficult.

So on reflection what we have is a scenario where it's allegedly a 50/50 contribution around the home however the male who has the higher earning capacity which they get no recognition for and which women are only too happy to leverage off, comes home and assumes the role of primary care giver because the wife needs a "rest". So in effect you have a situation where men work all day, come home and mind the kids, get up in the middle of the night when it's "their turn", and also being responsible for paying the bills.

What gives, when did this suddenly come along and bite us in the ass?

If you have an Axe to grind with your wife, talk to her about it. Lots of people have traditional set ups and feel it works out well.

You should probably avoid comparing your wife unfavorably with your mother. It won't help.

nc19

This thread should be fun


While i agree with 99% of what you said minding children is tough. I mind my child on my own every monday from 7:30 til 6:30 and the house doesnt get cleaned til after she goes asleep.

PucaMama

wolfmanjack wrote: »

Conversation that started during Christmas day and while I was at first a bit offended by the comments which were made by the elderly members of the family, the more I thought about it, the reason I think I was offended is because deep down I think it's true. I have two children, my mother had four and when I make a comparison I really don't know how she did it. My mum had four kids all within two years of each other in age, a husband, a house which she kept spick and span, cooked every day, went shopping with no car, had a Saturday job and she baked her own bread and scones all the time!

After I thought about it I started to reflect on my own situation, I work full time in a 9-5 job, home before 6pm every day. My OH, stays at home and takes care of the two children who are in the Creché until 2pm. My wife has about four hours mon - fri alone with the kids but the house is always in a mess and she constantly tells me how busy she is. We even got a cleaning lady once per week but there is still crap every where and when I come home in the evenings I also engage with the kids. Whenever I or any male tries to challenge or ask why things around the house aren't done differently we're immediately branded as chauvinist, so we just have to go along with the notion that you can't criticise a woman who stays at home and minds children even though they may not be doing a very good job. Myself and my OH made an agreement that I would work and she would stay at home because she didn't exactly have a glittering career ahead of her and her earning capacity wasn't even close to mine. But what is starting to irk me is the fact that the kids are constantly used as a excuse for things not being done and any level of criticism is responded to by being a chauvinist etc.

I looked at some acquaintances who have a similar arrangement to ourselves and it's the same story. You go over to the house for a visit and the place is a mess, they have 1 or 2 kids, he works she doesn't and the topic of conversation invariably turns to how tough it is with the kids and how difficult.

So on reflection what we have is a scenario where it's allegedly a 50/50 contribution around the home however the male who has the higher earning capacity which they get no recognition for and which women are only too happy to leverage off, comes home and assumes the role of primary care giver because the wife needs a "rest". So in effect you have a situation where men work all day, come home and mind the kids, get up in the middle of the night when it's "their turn", and also being responsible for paying the bills.

What gives, when did this suddenly come along and bite us in the ass?

I suggest talking to your wife instead of strangers on the internet

catallus

This is an issue close to my heart:

How can a stick have a short end?????? Seriously, it is all part of the same stick!!!!

Now, the end of a stick can have a thin end or a shítty end, but to say it has a short end is just wrong!

ToxicPaddy

MOD NOTE

Keep it civil folks, none of this them and us ok??

Aineoil

wolfmanjack,

These questions you have raised should be discussed between you and your wife. Posting this on a public forum like boards is not going to help the situation.

Anyway we only have your version of events and the way you see things.

If my husband said or posted that I "didn't exactly have a glittering career ahead of" me and my "earning capacity wasn't even close to" his, I would be upset.

There are many reasons that people work, one reason is the social aspect of it.

Staying at home, minding small children can be an isolating experience. Raising children is indeed a challenging task.

clairefontaine

wolfmanjack wrote: »

Conversation that started during Christmas day and while I was at first a bit offended by the comments which were made by the elderly members of the family, the more I thought about it, the reason I think I was offended is because deep down I think it's true. I have two children, my mother had four and when I make a comparison I really don't know how she did it. My mum had four kids all within two years of each other in age, a husband, a house which she kept spick and span, cooked every day, went shopping with no car, had a Saturday job and she baked her own bread and scones all the time!

After I thought about it I started to reflect on my own situation, I work full time in a 9-5 job, home before 6pm every day. My OH, stays at home and takes care of the two children who are in the Creché until 2pm. My wife has about four hours mon - fri alone with the kids but the house is always in a mess and she constantly tells me how busy she is. We even got a cleaning lady once per week but there is still crap every where and when I come home in the evenings I also engage with the kids. Whenever I or any male tries to challenge or ask why things around the house aren't done differently we're immediately branded as chauvinist, so we just have to go along with the notion that you can't criticise a woman who stays at home and minds children even though they may not be doing a very good job. Myself and my OH made an agreement that I would work and she would stay at home because she didn't exactly have a glittering career ahead of her and her earning capacity wasn't even close to mine. But what is starting to irk me is the fact that the kids are constantly used as a excuse for things not being done and any level of criticism is responded to by being a chauvinist etc.

I looked at some acquaintances who have a similar arrangement to ourselves and it's the same story. You go over to the house for a visit and the place is a mess, they have 1 or 2 kids, he works she doesn't and the topic of conversation invariably turns to how tough it is with the kids and how difficult.

So on reflection what we have is a scenario where it's allegedly a 50/50 contribution around the home however the male who has the higher earning capacity which they get no recognition for and which women are only too happy to leverage off, comes home and assumes the role of primary care giver because the wife needs a "rest". So in effect you have a situation where men work all day, come home and mind the kids, get up in the middle of the night when it's "their turn", and also being responsible for paying the bills.

What gives, when did this suddenly come along and bite us in the ass?

Let me give you an example of what might be a typical day when my little one was very very small.

So, you have cleaned up the house, though the lego and the other crap might still be all over the place. You call someone, like the doctor or the phone company or whatever little bit of business you have to do that might take ten minutes, or perhaps you go to the bathroom, and in that time your little one (s) have managed to re create a beach like scene in the living room with the ash bucket and water from the sink that has taken up the entire floor and also tsunamied all the previous lego and other crap that was all over the floor.

So you end up cleaning that mess up and while your back is turned your little one(s) have managed to rip open all the cabinets and remove all the pots and pans and make a drum set out of them, this of course is in between stuffing bananas in your computers cd/dvd drive and wreaking all other sorts of havoc while you are still cleaning up the ash/water/disaster in the living room.

So you clean up that mess, then you get to the pots the pans, and the banana stuffed in your hard drive, because you have stuck them in front of a dvd to stop the chaos for a half an hour....five hours later managed to get it somewhat orderly, and of course now you have to clean and sanitise every piece of lego that got tsunamied in the ash bucket beach recreation project... and then the boy next door with adhd comes over and tornadoes the place and slams a box into your little one's face which then causes a nosebleed, getting blood all over the sofa and carpets, which you then also have to clean up while comforting a distraught child... and when that is all sorted out..

Time to make another phone call... this time to the professional carpet and sofa cleaners to get all the blood out and so while you are on the phone....

See back to originating paragraph...

boobar

I don't know if traditional marriages are very common these days.

Both my wife and I work. We have one child. My wife has worked most of the Christmas and I've taken leave to look after our daughter while she's on holidays from school.

Mrs boobar wouldn't dream of coming home and complaining about unfinished housework, if she did I'd tell her where to go.

I know she'd do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

I suppose I'm saying it is tough to mind kids and get everything else done as well like baking bread, scones etc.

Gloomtastic!

I'm a stay at home Dad, have been for ten years. 2 kids are in school 8 - 2pm. My wife works full time, I work part time in the mornings and weekends, self-employed so my wages are too erratic to be relied upon.

I bake bread and scratch cook everything. I do the laundry but apart from the kitchen, I refuse to clean and employ a cleaner once a week - I pay for her. Cleaning is without doubt the most thankless task known to humanity! You clean the house and nobody notices, nobody appreciates it and the kids have the place wrecked again within an hour.

When I finish work in the morning and finished shopping, laundry, cooking I have an hour usually to spare - like your lunch hour OP. I go swimming a couple of times a week.

Afternoons are collect kids, lunch, homework, music, sport, dance, youth clubs, playdates, You're constantly shouting at the kids to do this, do that, hurry up PLEASE! It's relentless.

My wife resents me being at home her working and will make 'comments' about it at every opportunity. She's also on at me all the time about shouting at the kids. Funny though, she's been at home with them for the last week and and has lost it a couple of times!

Wear your wife's shoes for a couple of weeks and see how you get on. I bet you'll be having to get back to your normal life soon enough.

EGriff

It strikes me as a bit mad to pay for a creché if only one of you is working.

pwurple

You sound like you have marriage problems, but I wonder are you also expecting this woman to morph into a new person from what she previously was. Different people have different standards of cleanliness.

Was your wife always messy? Some people are, whether there are children or not. Expecting her to suddenly change now that there are children might be an unrealistic expectation.


The children can be taught to tidy up after themselves a reasonable amount from an early age. That's something that you can do... you are also their parent.

My 2 year old is well able to put away her colouring pencils, and her lego before dinner. She puts her own plates and bowls in the dishwasher after eating, puts her dirty clothes in the laundry basket at night. Sure, accidents and spills happen, but in general our place is fairly clean.

Aineoil

clairefontaine wrote: »

Let me give you an example of what might be a typical day when my little one was very very small.

So, you have cleaned up the house, though the lego and the other crap might still be all over the place.


and when that is all sorted out..

This is so true.....

I remember a time I was planting daffodil bulbs, about 100, under trees at our house. I was under pressure to get the job done and the day was dry. I wanted to surprise my husband too.

My then 3 year old told me came running down to me telling me he was drawing circles, squares and triangles.

I encouraged him to draw big circles and small circles etc, thinking I was the best mother in the world.

Bulbs planted, I came up to the front door to see he had indeed drawn big and little circles, squares and triangles all down the side of my car with a stone.

DazMarz

I don't doubt looking after kids is a tough job. But have some people never heard of the isolation cage play-pen? Or baby-gates to make sure they can only stay in one room at a time? Might make them easier to control and stop them from making as much mess as they do. Harsh measures, maybe. But I don't know of any family that didn't utilise these measures at some time (my own included).

And the OP was brutally honest about the financial situation. That's not something to give out to him about. He was just being honest. It can happen, that some couples' wages are very disproportionate and fair play to him if he is basically single-handedly supporting the family financially. That deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be getting. I don't think he was putting his wife down; he was just being honest about the situation. I'm guessing he has a fairly well paying job, has qualifications and so on. I'm guessing she doesn't have any of that or the prospects of getting a good job. Maybe he was a bit blunt, but other than that, he was just being honest.

highly1111

I'm a woman and to be honest, if the house is a state and the kids are in crèche for the whole morning - I would be asking the same questions.

I'm a SAHM and I've 3 kids under 4 1/2. The oldest guy is in school. I also work 2 nights a week but am cutting down to one night a week in a few weeks. My other two are 21 and 6 months.

When my husband comes home the house is relatively clean - but it is tidy. the 4 year old and I do a general sweep up of toys, crayons etc before my husband comes home. On the nights I'm not working, we all have dinner together when he comes in at 6 then it's all hands on deck for bedtime. the nights that I am working, dinner is always left for my husband.

the one help I do have is a cleaner who comes once a week for 2 hours and costs €20. my husband is totally fine with this. She does all the floors and the bathrooms and irons 5 shirts for my husband! to be honest, the only time I get to wash the floors are when the kids are in bed and to be honest, i'm just too tired by then - if i'm not in work. so it means that the floors are definitely done at least once a week.

to be honest, I have no idea why SAHM would have their kids in a crèche - in a playschool for a 2/3 mornings a week (depending on age) I can understand for social reasons for the kids - but aside from your comment about her earning potential etc - I do agree with your post and if what you're saying is correct then I would be annoyed too.

also, it's a piece of pi$$ to make bread and scones so although I don't do it myself I wouldn't hold it as the holy grail!! But don't compare your wife to her mother - if my husband said, "well my mum used to....." I'd see red in a fit!

Aineoil

DazMarz

In fairness he was being honest, but only from his point of view.

Aineoil

She does all the floors and the bathrooms and irons 5 shirts for my husband!

wow, that's a great deal

highly1111

Aineoil wrote: »

She does all the floors and the bathrooms and irons 5 shirts for my husband!

wow, that's a great deal

I know - 2 hours for €20. Don't know what I'd do without her - she makes Monday my favourite day of the week!

Sorry for going off topic.

pwurple

DazMarz wrote: »

I don't doubt looking after kids is a tough job. But have some people never heard of the isolation cage play-pen? Or baby-gates to make sure they can only stay in one room at a time? Might make them easier to control and stop them from making as much mess as they do. Harsh measures, maybe. But I don't know of any family that didn't utilise these measures at some time.

They are out of the house for half the day. There should be no need for a playpen when they are not even there. Get yourself organised in the morning, and go out for the afternoon to the playground or woods. Mess = zero.

I know the weather is a bit hard the last few weeks, but we are still out most days jumping in puddles in wet gear over the christmas hols.

Pure conjecture, but something I've seen often is where a guy marries an attractive woman, who has almost no other skills beyond maintaining their own appearance. Budgetting, childcare, earning, cooking, driving... Can't do any of it. Used to someone else doing it all for them. Men sometimes marry people who are used to putting huge qtys of time on their looks, and expect them to magically be able to become someone else once babies arrive.

wolfmanjack

The responses so far seem to reinforce my original point. It seems posters are more intent on attacking the poster and trotting out the same old story that "oh kids are so difficult to mind" or listing out their itinerary during the day. I wonder if the bailiffs came knocking one day and the SAHM asked their husband why the mortgage isn't paid, would they accept a detailed itinerary or a list of his workload as an acceptable answer as to why the family is being evicted? A busy fool is a busy fool regardless of where they work?

pwurple

wolfmanjack wrote: »

A busy fool is a busy fool regardless of where they work?

Are you for real? Why did you marry this 'fool' in the first place?

username123

Why are the children in a crèche 5 mornings a week if your wife doesn't work?

It sounds like your wife isn't coping and instead of offering support you are speaking of her in a belittling way. I know plenty of SAHM with clean homes who like to bake. It's not relevant what's happening in other people's homes, or what your mother did.

You have a certain expectation of what your wife's role is and she is not meeting that expectation. So why don't you discuss it with her and agree changes that will help resolve the situation, like less crèche and use the money on a cleaner and baked goods.

Or if you are so unhappy with your lot, why not reverse roles and accept the subsequent lower income and make the relevant changes to accommodate that.

Criticising your wife online isn't going to solve your problem.

lillycool

If you have money for cleaners and crèche plus a wife at home all day who isn't interested in working full/part time/or studying then maybe yes the house should be in order (if that's what you've both signed up to - I presume you discuss these things?)

Maybe you are being too harsh though and the house is in order and she does far more than you appreciate her for, I think we'd need to hear 2 sides of the story.

Sauve

Mod

This thread is going nowhere good, going to close it up now.