Coca-Cola Ireland in hot water on Twitter for removing gay marriage scene Irish ad

LegacyUser

http://eile.ie/2013/12/29/coca-cola-ireland-omits-gay-marriage-scene-from-new-ad-campaign/

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/coca-cola-advert-gay-marriage-ireland-1242407-Dec2013/

The Eile link is a mod addition, the initial link posted wasn't for the best of sites so was replaced to save anyone accidentally clicking a funky download link. Eile is the source of most of the discussion on this anyway.

Annasopra

Honestly I think some of the twitter accusations of homophobia were a big overreaction but I don't drink Coca Cola products because of the Colombian situation as outlined at killercoke.org

WellThen?

It's not legal here, that's why they altered the ad. I mean they do that to loads of adverts as per country. People should put their energy into trying to make it legal rather than going mental over an ad that was different for each country. The Norwegian one has Skiing and ours doesn't....oh nooo.

Amirani

If the ad content is based on market research in each country, then the Irish public should be under more scrutiny over this than Coca-Cola.

Annasopra

WellThen? wrote: »

It's not legal here, that's why they altered the ad.

That's not really a valid answer though
1 Civil Partnership is legal here
2 Marriage isn't legal in the UK yet
3 The scene was from an Australian civil partnership

BuffyBot

Perhaps the advert should run 180 minutes long and include every possible permutation of social/life events. That'll solve it.

Really though, it's appears to be nothing but fault finding for fault finding's sake, because it seems awfully unlikely someone in Coke's marketing department were sitting there drawing groups out of a hat selecting whom to offend this week.

WellThen?

mango salsa wrote: »

That's not really a valid answer though
1 Civil Partnership is legal here
2 Marriage isn't legal in the UK yet
3 The scene was from an Australian civil partnership

You have a point about Britain,

But i don't think the enemy here is Coca Cola Ireland, rather the audience they are advertising to. It's this country's narrow mindedness that has stopped them showing it here.

Also what does it matter that it was from Australia?

Vojera

WellThen? wrote: »

Also what does it matter that it was from Australia?

It doesn't matter that it's from Australia, more that it's actually a civil partnership being depicted (which we have), not a marriage (which we don't), so the argument that it's not legal here doesn't hold water.

But I agree it says more about Ireland than Coca Cola.

Fr Tod Umptious

WellThen? wrote: »

You have a point about Britain,

But i don't think the enemy here is Coca Cola Ireland, rather the audience they are advertising to. It's this country's narrow mindedness that has stopped them showing it here.

Also what does it matter that it was from Australia?

A change to marriage law can only be done by referendum.
The govt have promised one before their term is up.

So you can hold off on calling the people narrow minded until that vote is over

Annasopra

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A change to marriage law can only be done by referendum.

That's debatable. There is no consensus on that.

SpaceTime

That's a very odd move and sounds more like they're working off ancient research that's out of date or someone has made a ridiculous assumption that Ireland is still a religiously conservative backwater based on a hunch or old stereotyping.

Civil partnerships and all their associated ceremonies are legal here. Gay rights are firmly enshrined in law and the opinion polling on same sex full marriage is showing a very strong majority in favour.

I think Coca cola has actually made a huge mistake by doing that. It wouldn't have been at all controversial and they've actually rather patronisingly insulted a hell of a lot of Irish people who aren't at all homophobic.

Ireland actually ranks in the top 10 least religious countries too! Gallop Polling from last year.

I won't be buying Coke!

This ad wouldn't have even raised an Irish eyebrow!
It may well have in parts of the US. This isn't the US though.

the_syco

The ads have some bits that are the same, and lots of bits that aren't. It would seem a political organisation is looking to discredit Coca Cola by any means, and this is one such means.

SpaceTime

Well it's Coke making the decision. It has nothing to do with Irish attitudes.

They'll have to add an Irish gay couple now though. I don't think they're attempting to target the shrinking, elderly homophobic market...

L1011

I wouldn't be surprised if the Coke franchiser for here removed the scene for all markets - Ireland (island of) is their most westerly market, they're a Greek company and also hold the franchise for Russia, Poland and similar countries.

A lot of people don't realise that Coke is a franchised operation. Coca Cola in GB is an entirely different company. To make it more confusing, the parent company also has operations here but they don't sell or advertise to the public.

Annasopra

the_syco wrote: »

The ads have some bits that are the same, and lots of bits that aren't. It would seem a political organisation is looking to discredit Coca Cola by any means, and this is one such means.

What political organisation?

Aard

mango salsa wrote: »

What political organisation?

The Gay Agenda™, of course.

SpaceTime

WellThen? wrote: »

You have a point about Britain,

But i don't think the enemy here is Coca Cola Ireland, rather the audience they are advertising to. It's this country's narrow mindedness that has stopped them showing it here.

Also what does it matter that it was from Australia?

No it most certainly is not!

Opinion polling shows about 76% in favour of gay marriage, so Ireland's hardly narrow-minded!

A poll in November 2013 (by RED C for Paddy Power) showed that 76% of voters intended to support the introduction of same-sex marriage in any referendum, with 18% opposed and 6% undecided (with the undecideds excluded the ratio is 81% support, 19% against). Support was highest among women (85%), those under 44 (87%), Labour supporters (96%) and those living in Dublin and commuter counties (83%).

http://www.redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Paddy-Power-Nov-2013-Poll-Report.pdf

Australia 64% http://www.australianmarriageequality.com/wp/who-supports-equality/a-majority-of-australians-support-marriage-equality/

USA: 58% - ABC Poll (including 81% of voters under 30)

---

The reasons that Coca-Cola's marketing team made this decision is only known to them! It's completely out of line with Irish public opinion and Red C polling is *very* accurate and has proven to be an excellent predictor of elections in the past.

What I find insulting is that Coke clearly thinks we're some kind of socially conservative backwater and is basing this on some notion they took rather than actual market research.

Social attitudes in Ireland have changed so dramatically in the last couple of decades that there's really very little recognisable about them at all. It's a much more open, liberal country than it has been at any stage in the past 100 years.
While people can idealise the 'simple values' of the past. I am delighted that the celtic tigre period blew away the cobwebs and brought Ireland out from under the jackboot of conservatives.

I also don't believe that Irish people were fundamentally socially conservative - we like a bit of craic and fun. The issue was that we were top-down oppressed. There was a very deliberate social movement here that wanted to 'clean up' the country in the 1920s by tackling things like excessive drinking (temperance movement), prostitution etc. It went way too far, and gained a grip on power in every aspect of Irish society through control of state-funded social services, education, huge influence over everything ..
It tended to deal with social problems that were caused largely by grinding poverty, by oppressing the symptoms and locking people up / casting them out rather than trying to improve social circumstances and accept people for who they were.

That's the legacy that gave us a lot of our worst scandals :"the laundries", people fleeing abroad due to issues like being pregnant outside marriage, marriage breakdowns, being gay, etc. If you were non-conforming you were either bashed into line or booted out as you didn't fit into conservative "holy catholic Ireland"

It was a terrible shame as many of the idealists behind the notion of creating a Republic saw something much more liberal, all-inclusive and visionary. I think we're only starting to realise that dream in the last 20 years.

What I think is kind of cool about this period of history is that we have taken many of the nicest aspects of Ireland and being Irish and thrown away many of the worst aspects (i.e. all that conservative nonsense).
It's a much more liberal, open, friendly, live-and-let live country with more money, better infrastructure, decent universities that are accessible to most of us, open public debate etc etc.
We've lost the bubble-economics ability to slash the cash, but the social changes are irreversible (thankfully!)


Scandal after scandal has really made people rethink pretty much everything. So, I really think Coke's MASSIVELY off the mark if they think there's widespread on-going homophobia in Ireland.

WellThen?

SpaceTime wrote: »

No it most certainly is not!

Opinion polling shows about 76% in favour of gay marriage, so Ireland's hardly narrow-minded!



http://www.redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Paddy-Power-Nov-2013-Poll-Report.pdf

Australia 64% http://www.australianmarriageequality.com/wp/who-supports-equality/a-majority-of-australians-support-marriage-equality/

USA: 58% - ABC Poll (including 81% of voters under 30)

---

The reasons that Coca-Cola's marketing team made this decision is only known to them! It's completely out of line with Irish public opinion and Red C polling is *very* accurate and has proven to be an excellent predictor of elections in the past.

What I find insulting is that Coke clearly thinks we're some kind of socially conservative backwater and is basing this on some notion they took rather than actual market research.

Social attitudes in Ireland have changed so dramatically in the last couple of decades that there's really very little recognisable about them at all. It's a much more open, liberal country than it has been at any stage in the past 100 years.
While people can idealise the 'simple values' of the past. I am delighted that the celtic tigre period blew away the cobwebs and brought Ireland out from under the jackboot of conservatives.

I also don't believe that Irish people were fundamentally socially conservative - we like a bit of craic and fun. The issue was that we were top-down oppressed. There was a very deliberate social movement here that wanted to 'clean up' the country in the 1920s by tackling things like excessive drinking (temperance movement), prostitution etc. It went way too far, and gained a grip on power in every aspect of Irish society through control of state-funded social services, education, huge influence over everything ..
It tended to deal with social problems that were caused largely by grinding poverty, by oppressing the symptoms and locking people up / casting them out rather than trying to improve social circumstances and accept people for who they were.

That's the legacy that gave us a lot of our worst scandals :"the laundries", people fleeing abroad due to issues like being pregnant outside marriage, marriage breakdowns, being gay, etc. If you were non-conforming you were either bashed into line or booted out as you didn't fit into conservative "holy catholic Ireland"

It was a terrible shame as many of the idealists behind the notion of creating a Republic saw something much more liberal, all-inclusive and visionary. I think we're only starting to realise that dream in the last 20 years.

What I think is kind of cool about this period of history is that we have taken many of the nicest aspects of Ireland and being Irish and thrown away many of the worst aspects (i.e. all that conservative nonsense).
It's a much more liberal, open, friendly, live-and-let live country with more money, better infrastructure, decent universities that are accessible to most of us, open public debate etc etc.
We've lost the bubble-economics ability to slash the cash, but the social changes are irreversible (thankfully!)


Scandal after scandal has really made people rethink pretty much everything. So, I really think Coke's MASSIVELY off the mark if they think there's widespread on-going homophobia in Ireland.

TLDR


But yeah I get it, We are improving. GREAT. Obviously just slower than anyone else.

Also depends on who is likely to vote on the polls above, It's not an accurate description as the country as a whole.

L1011

Those polls are done by polling agencies and are generally quite representative. They are not web polls, which are absolutely worthless, always.

SpaceTime

WellThen? wrote: »

TLDR

(= Too Long Didn't Read)

Obviously not

Those polls are very scientific and would be designed to be very representative. Red C does a huge amount of polling.

Also, we're actually changing faster than most countries. We've gone from pretty conservative to pretty liberal in <25 years.

Irish Aris

MYOB wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if the Coke franchiser for here removed the scene for all markets - Ireland (island of) is their most westerly market, they're a Greek company and also hold the franchise for Russia, Poland and similar countries.

A lot of people don't realise that Coke is a franchised operation. Coca Cola in GB is an entirely different company. To make it more confusing, the parent company also has operations here but they don't sell or advertise to the public.

Not sure where you read that Coke is a Greek company, but it's definitely wrong. You are confusing The Coca-Cola Company with its bottlers who, in most cases, are third party and have minimum to zero saying on advertising decisions.

Anyway, I reckon this is a rather misjudged call and nothing more.

Grab All Association

HBC (the bottlers of Coca Cola on the island of Ireland) just buys Coca Cola concentrate off the Coca Cola company (which is produced in Mayo I think) and mixes it with mineral water carbonates it and bottles/cans it. I don't think they handle the advertisement/marketing of the brand in Ireland.

barney 20v

I have to state from the get go here... I work for The Coca Cola Company however I post here as another boards member not in any way shape or form as a ccc spokesperson etc
The journalist on the linked article stated that " coca cola do not care about gay marriage " He is wrong IMHO .
I have many lgbt co workers who are treated the very same as everyone else.
It's a non issue where I work.

Coca cola are leading many worthwhile efforts to address many longstanding inequality issues worldwide such as female equality at the higher levels of big business and work with world wildlife fund, water conservation efforts etc etc

I understand the point the op is making but I disagree.
I also think the journalist in the article was biased against coca cola and repeated a spurious argument about NI/ Scotland etc

Just to finish, I have to say The Coca Cola Company are fantastic to work for with very high eithical and moral standards.
In the coke facility I work in their is no distinction between people based on race/ gender or sexuality, we are all just one big family.
The issue here is not cokes attitude but the attitude of certain parts of the Irish population to lgbt marriage .

SpaceTime

There isn't a negative attitude about gay marriage amongst the vast majority of the Irish population.

Please see opinion polling above. Same sex marriage actually has broader support here than most western countries!

So if the decision was based on a 'hunch' about little old backwards Ireland, it was a very inaccurate hunch.

Coke made the wrong call on this. Simple as that really.

They may be a nice company to work for, but they're still trying to justify this by blaming Irish attitudes when Irish attitudes are not particularly anti LGBT.

When you're in a hole you stop digging! You don't deny the hole exists.

Companies can make marketing mistakes and still be great companies!

Pepsi will just have to launch the gayest marriage advert ever!

L1011

Irish Aris wrote: »

Not sure where you read that Coke is a Greek company, but it's definitely wrong. You are confusing The Coca-Cola Company with its bottlers who, in most cases, are third party and have minimum to zero saying on advertising decisions.

Anyway, I reckon this is a rather misjudged call and nothing more.

The Irish/Northern Irish bottler is a Greek company. According to their own website they are responsible for promotion and advertising as well as bottling and distribution as well as having their own CSR programmes etc.

HBC produce brands which aren't even owned by the master firm which are co-marketed and advertised in Ireland.

That the master firm actually has operations in Ireland just confuses matters somewhat.

SpaceTime

Which would explain why all their fridges are made by a company called Hellencic

Zed Bank

I saw the ad in the cinema and the scene was included.

barney 20v

SpaceTime wrote: »

There isn't a negative attitude about gay marriage amongst the vast majority of the Irish population.

Please see opinion polling above. Same sex marriage actually has broader support here than most western countries!

So if the decision was based on a 'hunch' about little old backwards Ireland, it was a very inaccurate hunch.

Coke made the wrong call on this. Simple as that really.

They may be a nice company to work for, but they're still trying to justify this by blaming Irish attitudes when Irish attitudes are not particularly anti LGBT.

When you're in a hole you stop digging! You don't deny the hole exists.

Companies can make marketing mistakes and still be great companies!

Pepsi will just have to launch the gayest marriage advert ever!

I find terms such as " little old backwards Ireland" to be both highly inaccurate and offensive tbh.
Coca cola have placed some of their most important facilities world wide here in this country. For you and others To portray coke as seeing the Irish as backwards is offensive to me .
Again I'm posting here as a boards user and not as a spokesperson/ employee

SpaceTime

barney 20v wrote: »

I find terms such as " little old backwards Ireland" to be both highly inaccurate and offensive tbh.
Coca cola have placed some of their most important facilities world wide here in this country. For you and others To portray coke as seeing the Irish as backwards is offensive to me .
Again I'm posting here as a boards user and not as a spokesperson/ employee

Well, if they feel they need to censor an ad with a gay wedding in it, that's exactly what they think of us.
It would lead one to conclude that they suspected that Irish customers would be so shocked and upset that they'd stop buying their products. Otherwise, why would they bother?

That's the impression it gives me anyway.

The fact that they cite facilities here is nothing to do with their local marketing towards Irish consumers. It's just a good place to base facilities from a taxation, language, skill set and access to market point of view.

Perhaps they'll respond by just quietly slipping in the other version of the advert?
Seems like it's now running in cinemas from what's been said above.

SpaceTime

barney 20v wrote: »

I find terms such as " little old backwards Ireland" to be both highly inaccurate and offensive tbh.
Coca cola have placed some of their most important facilities world wide here in this country. For you and others To portray coke as seeing the Irish as backwards is offensive to me .
Again I'm posting here as a boards user and not as a spokesperson/ employee

Also :

I am using those terms to illustrate how some people outside of Ireland see the place.
They are highly inaccurate and offensive. But, I don't know how many times I've had to explain to people abroad (especially in the US) that Ireland is no longer an ultra conservative country on most issues.

There's a perception out there still that Ireland is extremely religious and socially conservative. It's inaccurate, but it's still there.

I had a French woman ask me once if it was 'safe' to visit Ireland due to all the blasphemy laws and whether she would need to watch what she said like in the Middle East!!?!
She got that impression because she'd 1) never set foot in Ireland 2) heard there was a 'religious war' in NI and 3) Saw something about a controversy about a blasphemy law a few years ago.
So having zero knowledge of Ireland, she assumed it must be very socially backwards and conservative with oppressive law.

Irish Americans also tend to give out an impression that Ireland = Holy Catholic Ireland because they had some conservative elderly relative who told them all about it. Or, because they just picked that vibe up over the years.

Even in Britain I've heard people asking questions like "is it safe to be gay over there" and it's all based on images of Ireland from the 1950s or whatever or notions they have about it.

We also have produced a vast wealth of films all set in the 1950s and showing that kind of society which gets taken as "Ireland" by people who've watched them.

How we are, how we perceive ourselves and how others perceive us are all very different things!

So, no it wouldn't surprise me if someone outside of Ireland thought that including a gay marriage scene for an Irish audience might have been 'controversial'