overflow pipe - leak velux

2012paddy2012

Just back from a few days away- walked into kitchen to find water on floor

Looking out the window I see in the corresponding area on roof seems very wet under the overflow pipe

What causes these to overflow , the velux didnt stop the rain either it seems

Very small occasional leaks previously but not like this any advice- thks

Paddy

Guest0000

First thing is the expansion tank in the attic, so if it has stopped its not the ball cock, so next likely suspect is the circulating pump at the boiler, if it can not circulate, the hot water will expand via the small tank,,,

scudo2

What's that, that looks rough under the window sill in your first photo ?

Outkast_IRE

scudo2 wrote: »

What's that, that looks rough under the window sill in your first photo ?

I think the overflow is above this window, and is dripping down, hitting the windowsill and wetting the roof tiles underneath

Stella Virgo

is that lead flashing ok. cos in the picture it looks to be in pieces......water will definitely leak down between edge of roof and house wall.

650gs

What angle is the roof it look way too flat for them tiles and the same for the windows

2012paddy2012

Stella Virgo wrote: »

is that lead flashing ok. cos in the picture it looks to be in pieces......water will definitely leak down between edge of roof and house wall.

The flashing appears to be joined at a nunber of places but overlapping I presumed that would keep water out!
I presume that from reading this it should-be one long lenght of flashing!?
I just walked along the flashing now the part on the roof and some water squelches out as I walk along- I presume if this was water resistant - this shouldnt happen?

2012paddy2012

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I think the overflow is above this window, and is dripping down, hitting the windowsill and wetting the roof tiles underneath

Spot on

2012paddy2012

Guest0000 wrote: »

First thing is the expansion tank in the attic, so if it has stopped its not the ball cock, so next likely suspect is the circulating pump at the boiler, if it can not circulate, the hot water will expand via the small tank,,,

thks I was away so no boiler on....it seems not ballcock so! ..confused!

thks:mad:

Outkast_IRE

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

thks I was away so no boiler on....it seems not ballcock so! ..confused!

thks:mad:

Well it could be the ballcock, If you were away and the ballcock was leaving even a drip through when its meant to be completely shut, it would cause the tank to overflow as nobody is there using taps or flushing loos to bring the level down abit.

If you were away, and nobody was there using water, the ballcock in the main cold water storage cistern would be my first suspect, I would check its not dripping or running slightly when its meant to be shut off.

I would also be suspect of what angle the roof is at and what roof tiles are used, there are special roof tiles to be used in low sloped roofs.

2012paddy2012

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well it could be the ballcock, If you were away and the ballcock was leaving even a drip through when its meant to be completely shut, it would cause the tank to overflow as nobody is there using taps or flushing loos to bring the level down abit.

If you were away, and nobody was there using water, the ballcock in the main cold water storage cistern would be my first suspect, I would check its not dripping or running slightly when its meant to be shut off.

I would also be suspect of what angle the roof is at and what roof tiles are used, there are special roof tiles to be used in low sloped roofs.

thks i will go up to the attic and check ballcock. there should be no water at all coming in/out if all is well? this roof is on about 4 yrs , and had very occassional leaks that i had thought i had sorted..i cemented in along the vertical sides of the velux/i put roof sealent in between all the tiles , as some would be loose under foot(builder told me there were interlocking and some movement was to be expected when i said it to him at the time ..her said you only nail in every third or fourth) i also put two coats of roof paint , well dripped in along any gaps ...had no problem till the other day and it was the first time also i noticed the overflow ....overflowing ..it would have landed on the velux , with floor inside wet at same point.. i think the slope is insufficient now as well ..thks//ps i am trying to add further pics to the post but it will not let me so i am going to put a few up in a new post..re flashing ..if you wouldnt mind giving me your opinion , thks

2012paddy2012

Stella Virgo wrote: »

is that lead flashing ok. cos in the picture it looks to be in pieces......water will definitely leak down between edge of roof and house wall.

I think you could be right //its not one long flashing its in a couple of pieces.

cerastes

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

The flashing appears to be joined at a nunber of places but overlapping I presumed that would keep water out!
I presume that from reading this it should-be one long lenght of flashing!?
I just walked along the flashing now the part on the roof and some water squelches out as I walk along- I presume if this was water resistant - this shouldnt happen?

I wouldn't know for sure, but I'd have thought if flashing couldnt be done in one piece it could be bonded or welded together.

I wasn't sure what I was looking at in the first picture until I saw the next pictures as the roof has such a low fall, but there doesn't seem to be enough overlap of the tiles for the fall of the roof, they look way stretched out, someone mentioned special tiles, maybe look it up and see if there is a guideline for these tiles what the angle and overlap should be? could be it might need to be redone with more overlap, Id look for another opinion on what im going to say, but possibly bonding the lead flashing together where it joins and along its edge might help part of the problem?

Also can overflows be extended/directed closer to a drain?? or do they need to be visible, check or replace the ball valve anyway, that wont cost much for a start, does it leak under light or heavy rain only? if its blowing onto you I could see how driving rain might cause a problem
(Im no expert)
I did a tiled shed roof off guidelines and its possible as a DIY, someone was paid to do this and did worse, so DIY is possible).

650gs

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

I think you could be right //its not one long flashing its in a couple of pieces.

You cant put the flashing in one length it has to be able to expand with heat/cold or it will split,
I would say the water is going back up under the flashing due to the pitch of the roof and the same goes for the window

cerastes

650gs wrote: »

You cant put the flashing in one length it has to be able to expand with heat/cold or it will split,
I would say the water is going back up under the flashing due to the pitch of the roof and the same goes for the window

So, would they be able to bond each section of flashing to the tiles beneath it? would that help?
I assume there is also meant to be a certain overlap which could be greater for a shallower roof pitch?

edit, whats that in the third image, below the velux window on the left OP?

2012paddy2012

cerastes wrote: »

So, would they be able to bond each section of flashing to the tiles beneath it? would that help?
I assume there is also meant to be a certain overlap which could be greater for a shallower roof pitch?

edit, whats that in the third image, below the velux window on the left OP?

LOL that's just two pieces of tiles I put there to kneel on! You say bond..Do you mean sticking together with appropriate sealant? I did that with tec 7
before ...I am now thinking of getting an out door adhesive and sticking the flashing to the roof tiles on extension to start off , I checked where it is fitted to the house wall and it seems fine....I think I will have to just put more sealant and waterproof roof bitimun around velux where I see gaps again and see , before I get a roofer to look at it..:rolleyes:

cerastes

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

LOL that's just two pieces of tiles I put there to kneel on! You say bond..Do you mean sticking together with appropriate sealant? I did that with tec 7
before ...I am now thinking of getting an out door adhesive and sticking the flashing to the roof tiles on extension to start off , I checked where it is fitted to the house wall and it seems fine....I think I will have to just put more sealant and waterproof roof bitimun around velux where I see gaps again and see , before I get a roofer to look at it..:rolleyes:

By bond I mean glue, but see the mention by the poster after me (650gs) about being all in one piece, I also suggest you get advice on this, I thought you said you did the edges and joins of the tiles which I'd have thought shouldn't be necessary,

Im no expert, but i did my own shed roof in tiles, and it looks way better than an opposite house's extension done by a "builder",
but I looked up the guidelines on the installation for the slope/overlap and measured it up. Your bottom row of tiles appear to fall off at a steeper angle too? is there a gap between that row and the second row when looking up the roof slope?

Whatever of the flashing (not saying it isnt a problem, I haven't ever had to fit flashing) The overlap of the tiles doesn't look like it could be very much, do you know what overlap exists? maybe from looking at the side? look up your tile type (possibly on roadstone), then do a google search for fitting guidelines and see what that says.

2012paddy2012

cerastes wrote: »

By bond I mean glue, but see the mention by the poster after me (650gs) about being all in one piece, I also suggest you get advice on this, I thought you said you did the edges and joins of the tiles which I'd have thought shouldn't be necessary,

Im no expert, but i did my own shed roof in tiles, and it looks way better than an opposite house's extension done by a "builder",
but I looked up the guidelines on the installation for the slope/overlap and measured it up. Your bottom row of tiles appear to fall off at a steeper angle too? is there a gap between that row and the second row when looking up the roof slope?

Whatever of the flashing (not saying it isnt a problem, I haven't ever had to fit flashing) The overlap of the tiles doesn't look like it could be very much, do you know what overlap exists? maybe from looking at the side? look up your tile type (possibly on roadstone), then do a google search for fitting guidelines and see what that says.

thks I did the whole lot of the roof a few months back I sealed each tile with sealent as there was a little movement here and there when you walked across it....I then put two coats OF BITIMUN piant all over the roof as well as filling the vertical sides of the velux with concrete and then a coat of sealent and then two coats of bitimun as well! it is solid as a rock still! I didn't fill in along the horizontal (top) of velux , the wind was rough when we were away and with the over flow dropping out onto the velux the wind may have blown water right in under the top part of velux and may have dripped down and in to kitchen ? I had absolutely no problem since I did that so its very disappointing this happened

cerastes

is the ceiling wet/damp only or mostly under the overflow?
it seems a combination of problems to me, the water not draining away, plus the wind driving any rain or excess undrained water back between the tiles, in my un expert opinion, just looking at those tiles, I consider the main problem is there is a lot of tile area and by that not much overlapping of tiles.
what type of tile is it? and what are its dimensions (lenght by width).

2012paddy2012

cerastes wrote: »

By bond I mean glue, but see the mention by the poster after me (650gs) about being all in one piece, I also suggest you get advice on this, I thought you said you did the edges and joins of the tiles which I'd have thought shouldn't be necessary,

Im no expert, but i did my own shed roof in tiles, and it looks way better than an opposite house's extension done by a "builder",
but I looked up the guidelines on the installation for the slope/overlap and measured it up. Your bottom row of tiles appear to fall off at a steeper angle too? is there a gap between that row and the second row when looking up the roof slope?

Whatever of the flashing (not saying it isnt a problem, I haven't ever had to fit flashing) The overlap of the tiles doesn't look like it could be very much, do you know what overlap exists? maybe from looking at the side? look up your tile type (possibly on roadstone), then do a google search for fitting guidelines and see what that says.

Can you recommend an appropriate bond/adhesive , I had tech 7 before I am not sure if that will work now I have leak?! Also I was going to seal the flashing along the tiles adjacent to the rear wall of house , I wonder if that will interfere with the expansion etc that another poster mentioned? thks

2012paddy2012

650gs wrote: »

You cant put the flashing in one length it has to be able to expand with heat/cold or it will split,
I would say the water is going back up under the flashing due to the pitch of the roof and the same goes for the window

think your right. So < you would advise not to bond where the flashing is sitting on the roof tiles adjacent to back wall of house? I am worried if I do that now , that it might split with heat cold / I am fairly happy that is one route the water may be getting in to the house. Thks

2012paddy2012

cerastes wrote: »

is the ceiling wet/damp only or mostly under the overflow?
it seems a combination of problems to me, the water not draining away, plus the wind driving any rain or excess undrained water back between the tiles, in my un expert opinion, just looking at those tiles, I consider the main problem is there is a lot of tile area and by that not much overlapping of tiles.
what type of tile is it? and what are its dimensions (lenght by width).

all tiles have overlap piece on them ok .. Always there was a bit of movement on them when you walked across roof , builder told me that was normal with the overlap tiles roof?? I think the wind was driving the rain back under flashing at wall , combined with overflow leaking for some reason (1st time ever) caused water to seep in under tiles and into kitchen. It was directly under that velux - leaked in to kitchen.
(Stormy windy weather also)
To try and start solve it now ...I was going to stick adhesive to the tiles where the flashing is ...(although there is a couple of coats of bitumen paint there already) I am concerned from post here that this may restrict heat/cold expansion making matters worse! (if possible)

also put a T piece on overflow to direct it off the roof altogether to the side of the extension...I think an area around the velux itself must have a leak too as I was up there with a hose, just at the velux and water came through .
.it may be just there is the problem although I sealed it recently
with roof sealant first and then coats of bitumen paint!

Anyone recommend a top quality roof sealing paint? Lots advertised - I bought a very expensive one last time!!


do you know the dimensions of the standard over flow pipe , I wanna go to woodies and buy a length!

dathi

plain flat concrete roof tiles are only designed to be used on roofs with a 35* pitch your pitch is much shallower so you will always have problems with leaks. there are other roof tiles that can be used with pitches down to 12.5*. painting them with bitumen or other roof paints is only a short time solution ,as the roof is black it absorbs heat from the sun and expands and contracts resulting in the paint finish cracking between tiles. for a similar reasonlead flashing must not be placed in one piece as it will tear from expansion and contraction. as others have told you the ball cock in your water tank needs replacing as this is where the water is coming from

650gs

As said already the pitch is bad, more so for the windows, there are a few things you can do 1, re tile the roof, 2, strip the roof and double felt then re tile, 3, move the over flow but sort it in the attic either way.
As for the windows you can raise the rear of them a little its not in the books so to speak but does work apart from that do away with them altogether and re tile with the appropriate tiles

cerastes

I meant, I dont think there is enough overlap as such a large are of tile can be seen, as mentioned before, these tiles might not even be suitable for such a low pitch, some tiles give different measurement for overlap, depending on the pitch, from what I know, the lower it is, the greater the amount you overlap by.

jjf1974

If the roof pitch is very low you might have to use this type of material http://nordman.ie