Prius Electrical Issue

ozmo

Electric starting to go a little strange...

Its not reproducible on demand - happened may 5 times in past month - so id like do some research before having garage look at it. Has anyone heard of them behaving similiar to this before?

* Sometimes at power up - all the dashboard icons will all start flashing at me.
* Sometimes no flashing - the speedo display will be all lit up and display at half brightness (slightly flickery) and just lockup.

* car is not startable at that stage and only way is to reboot computer by holding in the Start button for a few seconds.

* sometime needs couple reboots to get working.

Then works fine - seems happen first thing on cold mornings - ok once warmed up.


Prius (12v) batteries are very expensive - so I dont just want try that and it not to be the problem - and any way car does start immediately once reset with no obvious difficulity like I would expect if the battery was flat.

The Computer Display shows 14.1V for the "12V" battery (with the petrol engine off) - which sounds ok to me.



Any ideas? ... on what I can check next? Or who best in Dublin would it be good to bring it to? thanks.

colm_mcm

How old is the car?
The Prius uses the hybrid battery to start the car, so as long as the ecu can half function the car would start anyway.
I'd say its the small battery.
Jump starting the car using the under-bonnet terminal would confirm if its a voltage issue.

Hector Mildew

Same happened to me, after replacing the small 12V accessory battery all was ok again. Its the one located beside the spare wheel space under the rear right light cluster (Prius II).

Replacements can be pricey, probably because they're smaller than a standard 12V car battery and are gel/ glass mat types (to prevent acid spills in the boot). You should make sure the gas vent tube is reconnected after fitting a new battery.

Edit: My old battery was reading 13.5 - 14.0 on the display too (just after driving and switching off) but dropped to around 10-11 volts overnight.

ozmo

Thanks for that- Sounds like it allright.

Battery seems like a very unique part - where would you advise go for one?
Normally use quickfit - but this installation looks a bit more involved.

From youtube video - Fitting looks like a hassle (most of boot , circuitboards and airducts to remove) but doable if i can get the battery...

For the love of CHRIST don't jump the lead acid in the Prius !!!

The 12v can wear out if not driven much, mine is nearly 7 years old on the origional battery but it gets driven almost 7 days a week.

I think it's an AGM battery.

650Ginge

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For the love of CHRIST don't jump the lead acid in the Prius !!!

There is no problem jumping a Prius just do it with the terminals under the bonnet.

When you are getting the 14.1v that's because the traction battery is charging the 12v battery, engine on or off that's what's happening.

You need a new 12v battery now or that car will leave you stranded. They're about €80, not that expensive. Better than being stuck in this weather. They are a little bit of a pain to fit though.

You sure Ginge ? I think I remember reading on Prius chat of warnings not to do it ?

colm_mcm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You sure Ginge ? I think I remember reading on Prius chat of warnings not to do it ?

No, sure theres a terminal under the bonnet for jumping. Battery is around €250 i thought?

Bigus

ozmo wrote: »

Thanks for that- Sounds like it allright.

Battery seems like a very unique part - where would you advise go for one?
Normally use quickfit - but this installation looks a bit more involved.

From youtube video - Fitting looks like a hassle (most of boot , circuitboards and airducts to remove) but doable if i can get the battery...

Simple to fit, it seems you're getting mixed up with the traction battery, the 12 v is in the right hand well to the right of the boot, right behind the wheel arch not far in front of back panel. Only two small parts to remove for access.

650Ginge

colm_mcm wrote: »

No, sure theres a terminal under the bonnet for jumping. Battery is around €250 i thought?

Got one recently for €80. Thought it was going to be more but there you go.

How long it lasts we will see? I am not expecting 7 years this time.

colm_mcm

Is it the right spec?

650Ginge

Bigus wrote: »

Simple to fit, it seems you're getting mixed up with the traction battery, the 12 v is in the right hand well to the right of the boot, right behind the wheel arch not far in front of back panel. Only two small parts to remove for access.

It is handy enough for those of us the tinker a bit, but you have a bit of work to do and couple of awkward bolts to get at. But it is very doable. Just do it in daylight. If unsure take a few photos as you go.

Hector Mildew

I replaced mine with an Optima yellow top (this one: http://www.tayna.co.uk/DS46B24R-Toyota-Prius-Optima-Battery-P8784.html). This battery survives discharges better than most and at the time it worked out less than what my local Toyota garage were charging to supply and install. I was also happy to fit it myself.

Took about 20 minutes to replace it - lots of steps but easy enough. The only problem was the existing gas vent tube wouldn't fit the new battery so I had to open everything up again after getting one sent by post..

I've since discovered that micks garage sell Prius 12V batteries for around €90.

Regarding jump starting, I was told its ok when starting the Prius (via the posts in the engine bay) but never jump another car as it would result in a very expensive repair..

PADRAIC.M

First of all - Yes you can jump a Prius, it's recommended when charging the 12v Aux battery to charge at 0.5amps for a max time of 12 hours, But jumping is fine.
I always recommend turning on the headlamps for 30 sec when jumping to remove the surface charge.
And why are you guys calling the HV Battery "a traction battery"?

colm_mcm

PADRAIC.M wrote: »

And why are you guys calling the HV Battery "a traction battery"?

Cos it powers the motor. That's what Americans call them anyway.

ozmo

Hector Mildew wrote: »

I've since discovered that micks garage sell Prius 12V batteries for around €90.

nice one - Just checked Micks Garage - and their site recommend two Exide batteries - but i cannot find on google anyone mentioning Prius and either of these battery model numbers in the same sentence - so im not sure which if any is compatible - Ill email them but what you guys think? I definitely want get the vent right first time as the battery is essentially in the same cabin as the passengers.

Oh its a Prius Hatchback 2005.

http://www.micksgarage.com/search.aspx?Keyword=prius%20battery&fffModelDescription=PRIUS%20Hatchback%202003%20to%202009

reni10

650Ginge wrote: »

Got one recently for €80. Thought it was going to be more but there you go.

Where did you get a new 12v Prius Battery that has the vent hole for €80?

ozmo

reni10 wrote: »

Where did you get a new 12v Prius Battery that has the vent hole for €80?

Neither micks garage or quickfit were able tell me for definite if the batteries they had would have a vent hole.

Quickfit/fastfit will fit one and all for 90 euros- going check out what they have tomorrow.

Toyota garage want 220 for original battery - 250 euros for battery fitted.

reni10

Yeah €250 to supply and fit a battery is robbery from Toyota Ireland.

It costs £95 to supply and fit in northern Ireland and the UK by Toyota UK but double that here!

Please let me know what happens at quick fit as €90 is something I would be ok with paying.

Anyone else any other experience of getting the correct type of 12v battery for under €100?

ozmo

reni10 wrote: »

Please let me know what happens at quick fit as €90 is something I would be ok with paying.

As much as I like the guys at my local quick fit - pleasent and try their best to help - and always the most reasonably priced - they are [snipped].

Said on phone they have the two types in stock, drop in. When I got there they had about 10 batteries on the shelf, none correct, and continued to pick one after another off the shelf looking for one that wouldn't be too large to fit the space.

I hate this "it will do" attitude I get from garages - and you are the bad person when you demand a part that actually fits.

Made my excuses and left - looks like Ill have to bit the bullet and get the 250 euros one from Toyota unless anyone has any other ideas?

reni10

I thought this might be the case alright!

The only other option is maybe this Varta battery from eBay?
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/D47-Varta-TOYOTA-PRIUS-PETROL-BATTERY-00-09-005L-/271332757434

ozmo wrote: »

As much as I like the guys at my local quick fit - pleasent and try their best to help - and always the most reasonably priced - they are [snipped].

Said on phone they have the two types in stock, drop in. When I got there they had about 10 batteries on the shelf, none correct, and continued to pick one after another off the shelf looking for one that wouldn't be too large to fit the space.

I hate this "it will do" attitude I get from garages - and you are the bad person when you demand a part that actually fits.

Made my excuses and left - looks like Ill have to bit the bullet and get the 250 euros one from Toyota unless anyone has any other ideas?

ozmo

Just for the record - I got the correct battery at last today - A good Bosch one too and it has the required Breather holes. 4 years warranty was welcome too.

75 Euros delivered (Ill have fit it myself tonight)

www.gsfcarparts.com (its not listed on their website)

noelf

ozmo wrote: »

Just for the record - I got the correct battery at last today - A good Bosch one too and it has the required Breather holes. 4 years wyarranty was welcome too.

75 Euros delivered (Ill have fit it myself tonight)

www.gsfcarparts.com (its not listed on their website)

will disconnecting old battery cause any issues ? Ie radio codes for example ....

noelf

noelf wrote: »

will disconnecting old battery cause any issues ? Ie radio codes for example ....

Do a search on the priuschat forum, I have escaped until now but as it's an 07 with 112K miles I most likely won't escape for too much longer. Though I think cars driven more seem to escape longer.

One thing you can do is to connect a booster battery to the terminals so as to keep the system live while disconnecting the terminals from the old battery.

Those damn old fashioned batteries, they should have used Lithium !

PADRAIC.M

You can change this battery with ease, at most you loose saved radio channels and time on the clock! Also I recommend turning on the headlamps for 10 seconds after fitting new battery before ignition on/ready just to remove surface charge and prevent surge

jerryg

"You can change this battery with ease, at most you loose saved radio channels and time on the clock! Also I recommend turning on the headlamps for 10 seconds after fitting new battery before ignition on/ready just to remove surface charge and prevent surge "

I replaced the 12v battery this weekend and I got the battery a Banner 45 Ah €75 from John in Dunshaughlin Auto parts.
Things to note
1.You need the exact size battery with correct terminals to the side of battery.
2.As above no data is lost except odo data a&b and time clock.
3.You need a battery with a vent for obvious reasons.
Note the Prius is 2007 so a new battery is no big deal new from Tadgh Riordain toyota Ashbourne they are 176 €.

My Prius is going on 8 years old soon and I've never had an issue with the 12 V battery, seems to be more common on cars if not driven daily.

ozmo

Deleted User wrote: »

My Prius is going on 8 years old soon and I've never had an issue with the 12 V battery, seems to be more common on cars if not driven daily.

Op here- A couple weeks of problems prompted me to get this battery-

But the old battery sparked into life and the replacment is still in my garage - never did replace in the end as the old one is fine again:/
Car starts immediately and no indications of battery issues.


This battery is only to boot the computer and the actual engine start is done by the other larger battery.

I still have the replacment and ll change it if i notice the display ever acting up again.

Have to say though that I really prefer the Prius compared to a manual diesel.

Herself got an 08 Kia Ceed 1.6 Crdi Estate and while it's certainly a decent car I do hate that diesel rattle and poor torque band, getting back into the prius is just heaven to me, so much smoother and quieter, granted acceleration in the prius is noisier but once up to speed it's quiet as a mouse.

Automatic Diesels are a lot better especially cvt because it's always in the correct gear/ratio when you want it and you have no loss of torque in the auto so you don't notice the poor torque band. But I still prefer the Prius.

If I had a DSG GTD Golf I would probably prefer that alright. :-)

The instant torque of an electric car is just a dream and has to be experienced, once they become mainstream people won't look back. I even hated going back to the prius from the 2 day test in the Leaf !

ozmo

Deleted User wrote: »

... I even hated going back to the prius from the 2 day test in the Leaf !

I did a very short test drive of a leaf also - but i only got the torque buzz when the eco mode button was off.

if you were in drive mode - how far did you get without charging it with the button off?

braddun

Unlike traditional cars where starting is dependant on the 12v battery being able to crank the engine, the Prius only uses the 12v battery to power on computers to "start" the car. The much larger traction battery actually starts up the engine when needed. With a traditional car you can normally tell the 12v battery needs replacement by sluggish starts or no starting at all. With a Prius you may experience strange things, dimming dash lights, a drop in MPG's and if the 12v is completely dead obviously no "starting." The good news is that you can test the battery without any tools and this simple procedure This procedure should be done when the car hasn't been driven for at least 30 minutes. You can also power on the headlights for about 30 seconds to drain off any surface charge the battery may have before doing this as well. Also make sure no electrical accessories are on before starting....headlights, defroster, fan, radio, etcThere are a couple of ways to get into System Check Mode. With your foot off the brake hit the power button once to enter ACC mode. Wait for the MFD to boot. Either method will get you to step 2, I've used both....

MFD method: Push the "Display" button and your MFD should display similar to the photo above. Note that the green and red circles are hidden targets you'll need to push, you will not see these. Do the following sequence: Hit the GREEN target then the RED target while in Display mode 3 times (6 touchscreen hits total: g, r, g, r, g, r), System Check Mode should now load, see next photo.

Light method: Hold down the "Info" button and while holding this down turn the parking lights on and off 3 times, System Check Mode should now load,
Test 1: In Vehicle Signal Check mode you get a reading of the 12v battery. I've read various ranges of what this should be, the above referenced PriusChat thread indicates 12.4-12.8v is normal range in ACC mode (1 power button push w/no brake pedal applied). Elearnaid indicates 11.9-12.6v as normal. The lower this reading the worse off your 12v battery is. So, I took this photo after leaving my car sit overnight and got 11.9v, on the low end and definitely way below what PriusChat is saying. When I replaced the battery with a new Optima Yellow Top it read 12.3v and that was out of the box.

Test 2: Again, without your foot on the brake, hit the power button again. You just put a current load on the battery and it should be about 12v. Depending on your reading you may not want to proceed to put more load on the battery. If you turn on the headlights, rear window defroster and heater fan you'll start seeing the voltage drop. Elearnaid says about 11.3v is where you should be at with a new battery and 10.2v and less the battery should be replaced. I was in the mid 10v range so I decided to just replace it for a Yellow Top!

Test 3: Apply the brake pedal and push the power button once. Now you're in ready mode and you should see the voltage jump to 13.6-14.4v range. This is the charging voltage and it will be higher in the winter.
To exit Vehicle Signal Check Mode power off the car OR hold down the "Display" button for about 5 seconds

September1

ozmo wrote: »

I did a very short test drive of a leaf also - but i only got the torque buzz when the eco mode button was off.

if you were in drive mode - how far did you get without charging it with the button off?

It really depends on circumstances, but in general I do get more range with ECO off in 2011 LEAF. Average speed and climate control have much bigger impact.

ozmo

ozmo wrote: »

I did a very short test drive of a leaf also - but i only got the torque buzz when the eco mode button was off.

if you were in drive mode - how far did you get without charging it with the button off?

Yeah it's got good taking off power.

I drove with eco on and off so couldn't say for sure and it was 18-20 degrees C weather at the time so very favourable to the Leaf.

You really need to know what you'll get in winter driving and use that as a minimum. This will have the greatest impact.

I drove the basic XE with Quick charge didn't have the heat pump or more efficient regen.