Feeding dog before hunting

fiestaman

Hi lads, as the title says do ye feed the dog before ye go hunting, say like an hour before?

Boiled-egg

fiestaman wrote: »

Hi lads, as the title says do ye feed the dog before ye go hunting, say like an hour before?

I've changed from feeding once a day in the evening to giving him half in the morning and half in the evening, so I suppose you could say I feed him before hunting.

kermitpwee

fiestaman wrote: »

Hi lads, as the title says do ye feed the dog before ye go hunting, say like an hour before?

That's way too close to the hunt. He will puke it up if he is anyway a hard going dog. I feed the dog twice the day before, the 2nd meal is loaded to the balls. I might then give him some wet food the morning of the hunt 4hours before we hunt. I often get up at 5 in the morning just to prep the dog cos im mad:D This works for me and the dog hunts very well. Some dog men have told me that you should only feed the night before, the dog food I use breaks down quickly.

snipe02

Would you do a days work on an empty ,, I know I wouldnt id give them a a light snack a fist of mince or an egg and a few nuts theyare at risk of twisting a gut or doing damage on a full stomach but something small or light will sustain them if I fed them last thing at night I would not feed em first thing

johnny3

An emty sack won't stand best to feed at nite then the food digests and presto the dog gets the goodness from the grub and shun be mad for action dog are not like humans that eat all day every day one good feed at nite is enough

johnny3

An emty sack won't stand best to feed at nite then the food digests and presto the dog gets the goodness from the grub and shun be mad for action dog are not like humans that eat all day every day one good feed at nite is enough

Double Barrel

I follow KermitP,s formula.
Plus
I carry a handful of high energy dog biscuits in my coat or share half a sandwich during a long day. They usually woof them down, much as I do, with no adverse effects. Just re-fueling the cells with energy.

fiestaman

Mmm, i always feed twice a day. Since first of november i was feeding a handfull of nuts and an egg or mince and an egg or handfull of nuts and tin of tuna in morning 1hr before hunting.I hunted from 8 until 3 the first day and the dog was still goin all be it he was tiring at that stage. Id give him full feed when home and again that night. Then about 3wks ago i never fed him that morning and after 2hr30mins he fell over and back legs were kicking. I covered him with a coat and got him back to van in me arms coz he couldnt stand. Then he was ok after bout half hr when i got home he wolfed down the food. Then today never fed him either and after 2hrs he done the same he got weak and went down and legs kicking. Put game bag under him and me coat over him and after 5mins or so he got up and we walkef back to van, he was looking to hunt again but i called him to heal. I wounder has he a glucose problem. Me head is wreked, me first dog with endless evenings training and he going well and now this, didnt really.mind first day as i thought it was a once off but today again is getting me worried.

cookimonster

Double Barrel wrote: »

..........I carry a handful of high energy buiscuts in my coat or share half a sandwich during a long day................. Just re-fueling the cells with energy.

One of the mates started bringing a small pouch of dog food with him on long days out ( pre dawn to after dusk). He gives his springer bitch the pouch when we have lunch and it certainly gives the dog a boost for the latter half of the day compared to previous outings when he wasn't doing so.

As humans we need to eat frequent snacks to keep the energy levels up during sustained activity so what's good for the goose etc etc.........

Double Barrel

fiestaman wrote: »

Mmm, i always feed twice a day. Since first of november i was feeding a handfull of nuts and an egg or mince and an egg or handfull of nuts and tin of tuna in morning 1hr before hunting.I hunted from 8 until 3 the first day and the dog was still goin all be it he was tiring at that stage. Id give him full feed when home and again that night. Then about 3wks ago i never fed him that morning and after 2hr30mins he fell over and back legs were kicking. I covered him with a coat and got him back to van in me arms coz he couldnt stand. Then he was ok after bout half hr when i got home he wolfed down the food. Then today never fed him either and after 2hrs he done the same he got weak and went down and legs kicking. Put game bag under him and me coat over him and after 5mins or so he got up and we walkef back to van, he was looking to hunt again but i called him to heal. I wounder has he a glucose problem. Me head is wreked, me first dog with endless evenings training and he going well and now this, didnt really.mind first day as i thought it was a once off but today again is getting me worried.

I would have the vet draw blood and do a work up.

DESCRIPTION OF COLLAPSE

Affected dogs can tolerate mild to moderate exercise, but 5 to 20 minutes of strenuous exercise with extreme excitement induces weakness and then collapse. Severely affected dogs may collapse whenever they are exercised to this extent - other dogs only exhibit collapse sporadically.

The first thing noted is usually a rocking or forced gait. The rear limbs then become weak and unable to support weight. Many affected dogs will continue to run while dragging their back legs. Some of the dogs appear to be incoordinated, especially in the rear limbs, with a wide-based, long, loose stride rather than the short, stiff strides typically associated with muscle weakness. In some dogs the rear limb collapse progresses to forelimb weakness and occasionally to a total inability to move. Muscles are relatively flaccid during collapse, although when restrained in lateral recumbency some dogs exhibit increased extensor tone in the forelimbs. Manipulation and palpation of the muscles, joints, and spine during or after an episode does not seem to cause discomfort.

Some dogs appear to have a loss of balance and may fall over, particularly as they recover from complete collapse. Most collapsed dogs are totally conscious and alert, still trying to run and retrieve during an episode but as many as 25% of affected dogs have had at least one episode where the owner reports that they appear stunned or disoriented during the episode.

It is common for the symptoms to worsen for 3 to 5 minutes even after exercise has been terminated. NOTE: A few affected dogs have died during exercise or while resting immediately after an episode of exercise-induced collapse, so an affected dog's exercise should ALWAYS be stopped at the first hint of incoordination or wobbliness.

Click here for a video of an EIC episode.

http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/canineneuromuscular/eic/taylor2008/home.html
http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/library/exercise_induced_collapse.php

kermitpwee

fiestaman wrote: »

Mmm, i always feed twice a day. Since first of november i was feeding a handfull of nuts and an egg or mince and an egg or handfull of nuts and tin of tuna in morning 1hr before hunting.I hunted from 8 until 3 the first day and the dog was still goin all be it he was tiring at that stage. Id give him full feed when home and again that night. Then about 3wks ago i never fed him that morning and after 2hr30mins he fell over and back legs were kicking. I covered him with a coat and got him back to van in me arms coz he couldnt stand. Then he was ok after bout half hr when i got home he wolfed down the food. Then today never fed him either and after 2hrs he done the same he got weak and went down and legs kicking. Put game bag under him and me coat over him and after 5mins or so he got up and we walkef back to van, he was looking to hunt again but i called him to heal. I wounder has he a glucose problem. Me head is wreked, me first dog with endless evenings training and he going well and now this, didnt really.mind first day as i thought it was a once off but today again is getting me worried.

It's quite simple my man! Go back to your old system of feeding him the hour before and see what happens. If he is still collapsing then you know he has a problem.
What time do you give the 2nd feed the night before and how much are you giving? I doubt there is anything major wrong with the dog.

fiestaman

Thanks doublebarell i read that there. I feel sick now but my only hope is he stay going for 2 to 2 and half hrs and seems at the moment when hes not fed. Il have to get blood tests done.

kermitpwee

fiestaman wrote: »

Thanks doublebarell i read that there. I feel sick now but my only hope is he stay going for 2 to 2 and half hrs and seems at the moment when hes not fed. Il have to get blood tests done.

Are you mad in the head? Don't get the test done until you go back to feeding him in the morning. Vets will tell you what you want to hear as the dog can't talk so you tell them what you think is going on! I have spent thousands on dogs at vets and have met very few that understand the plight of the working mans dog.
I have a springer that is hunting like a train based on the formula I gave you above, this formula was given to me by a top class hunting vet after I had spent 2k on vets bills on tests a springer that certain vets told me needed to be retired 6 yrs ago after they had lined their own pockets out of greed and ignorance to the hunting community. Be careful and try the simple things first

fiestaman

kermitpwee wrote: »

Are you mad in the head? Don't get the test done until you go back to feeding him in the morning. Vets will tell you what you want to hear as the dog can't talk so you tell them what you think is going on! I have spent thousands on dogs at vets and have met very few that understand the plight of the working mans dog.
I have a springer that is hunting like a train based on the formula I gave you above, this formula was given to me by a top class hunting vet after I had spent 2k on vets bills on tests a springer that certain vets told me needed to be retired 6 yrs ago after they had lined their own pockets out of greed and ignorance to the hunting community. Be careful and try the simple things first

Thanks lad but i will do that first. See how it goes from there.

kermitpwee

fiestaman wrote: »

Thanks lad but i will do that first. See how it goes from there.

Hope all works out for you, the 2nd feed needs to be substantial and late say 10pm, I feed later. Good luck

snipe02

And if the dog collapses and dies in the meantime ya will have saved what .bring your dog to mike lamb vets on the dublin road just past lacken house beside kilroy agricultural ask for mike if the dog was still getting the same amount of food in a day I couldnt see not feeding an hour before hunting having such an adverse effect on the dog unless this meal wasnt added to the main meal if ys get me i know i said that arseways ,,,,he seems a good animal and worth the consultation fee if he even charges ya one

kermitpwee

snipe02 wrote: »

And if the dog collapses and dies in the meantime ya will have saved what .bring your dog to mike lamb vets on the dublin road just past lacken house beside kilroy agricultural ask for mike if the dog was still getting the same amount of food in a day I couldnt see not feeding an hour before hunting having such an adverse effect on the dog unless this meal wasnt added to the main meal if ys get me i know i said that arseways ,,,,he seems a good animal and worth the consultation fee if he even charges ya one

Good point mate I didn't think that the dog might die. I don't want to see fiestamans dog die. If it was my dog I personally wouldn't bring him to a vet yet but that may not be best practice. As my vet says there is different criteria for animals and humans. If the collapse is only happening under exercise it is unlikely that his dog will die when not under duress. Anyway all the best to the op with whatever he decides.

kermitpwee

If I was a gambling man I would say the 2nd feed the day before is too early and then there is too big a gap to the next day and that is why the dog is collapsing. I have seen this before with springers but I am not a vet.

snipe02

Ive seen dogs collapse from dehydration aswell it just seems a bit extreme the dogs hitting the deck after a couple of hours which means thd dogs been beat well before that and hes pushed it to the max at that stage itvwould be normal enough for them to start pacing themselves at that stage but not burn out seems strange its usually like you said the obvious answer and the meal will prob sort it but id be of the opinion better safe than sorry best of luck anyway fiestaman would love to sed your dog in action

fiestaman

kermitpwee wrote: »

If I was a gambling man I would say the 2nd feed the day before is too early and then there is too big a gap to the next day and that is why the dog is collapsing. I have seen this before with springers but I am not a vet.

Maybe im not feeding enough at all. I have him on kasco 27% protien. Giving him the daily allowance split into 2 feeds with a small bit extra on the 2nd feed. Fed at 8am on way to work and anywhere between 7 & 8 pm that evening. Odd day he might get a scrap of dinner leftovers or tin of tuna or mackrel or small handfull of raw mince mixed in the 2nd feed. Have massbrook now when kasco is gone. Massbrook is 24% i think. He was on massbrook 18% all summer. He has fresh water all the time.

kermitpwee

fiestaman wrote: »

Maybe im not feeding enough at all. I have him on kasco 27% protien. Giving him the daily allowance split into 2 feeds with a small bit extra on the 2nd feed. Fed at 8am on way to work and anywhere between 7 & 8 pm that evening. Odd day he might get a scrap of dinner leftovers or tin of tuna or mackrel or small handfull of raw mince mixed in the 2nd feed. Have massbrook now when kasco is gone. Massbrook is 24% i think. He was on massbrook 18% all summer. He has fresh water all the time.

Okay for a start Kasco is pure ****e. I wouldn't be a fan of massbrook but it is ok and a lot of fellas swear by it. I know people are under budget constraints so Im not judging anyone. I would give the 2nd feed later at 10 -11. My dogs get double and sometimes triple the amount they get during the summer in the shooting season. When dogs are under extreme working conditions they burn fat so they must have a good diet.
My own regime is the day before is like any non shooting days.
1st feed at 1pm
2nd feed at 10pm

Day of hunt
5-6am 80grames of dry food
8am Two tins of wet food(wet food has a high content of meat compared with (most)dry food and is absorbed quickly into the blood stream)
When I come home that evening I feed the dog 120grammes of dry food and 2 tens of wet food. Occasionally I may feed during the hunt at lunch depending on how the dog does.
I don't like using wet food much, in the off season the dog never sees it but I find it excellent for prepping the dog and also for the recovery. My dog has never been in better shape according to the vet, I do go to them an odd time:D The dog is 8 years old, going like a train, running young dogs into the ground and recovering well and showing no signs of stiffness the following day. I am in mayo shooting woodcock in hard conditions.
I adopted my current regime 2 years ago and the dogs stay twice as long as they used to even though they are 2 years older.

fiestaman

kermitpwee wrote: »

Okay for a start Kasco is pure ****e. I wouldn't be a fan of massbrook but it is ok and a lot of fellas swear by it. I know people are under budget constraints so Im not judging anyone. I would give the 2nd feed later at 10 -11. My dogs get double and sometimes triple the amount they get during the summer in the shooting season. When dogs are under extreme working conditions they burn fat so they must have a good diet.
My own regime is the day before is like any non shooting days.
1st feed at 1pm
2nd feed at 10pm

Day of hunt
5-6am 80grames of dry food
8am Two tins of wet food(wet food has a high content of meat compared with (most)dry food and is absorbed quickly into the blood stream)
When I come home that evening I feed the dog 120grammes of dry food and 2 tens of wet food. Occasionally I may feed during the hunt at lunch depending on how the dog does.
I don't like using wet food much, in the off season the dog never sees it but I find it excellent for prepping the dog and also for the recovery. My dog has never been in better shape according to the vet, I do go to them an odd time:D The dog is 8 years old, going like a train, running young dogs into the ground and recovering well and showing no signs of stiffness the following day. I am in mayo shooting woodcock in hard conditions.
I adopted my current regime 2 years ago and the dogs stay twice as long as they used to even though they are 2 years older.

Thank you. That was the first and last bag of kasco, the vets had to order the massbrook high protien so i took that to tie me over. If you dont mind me asking what dry and wet food are you using. Can pm me if ya want. Thanks again. Its alot more than im giving my lad.

kermitpwee

Dry dog food(that I use) is cold pressed so it wont sit in their stomach and is digested quickly, although it will go off quicker than any other dry food usually has 3months date on it, whereas other stuff can have 2 years, go figure!

This what I used and I have tried them all,

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/markus_muehle

A review, to get the same product in other brands would cost 80 100 euro a bag.

http://www.whichdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0341/markus-muehle-naturnah

I was using it before any site reviewed it, a dutch vet told me about it even though she didn't stock it!

Wet food

Pedigree

kermitpwee

Money is very tight for my uncle and he feeds a cheap dry food and plenty from the table, meats and vegetables etc. His cockers go very well. He cant afford anything else

ace86

I used to be feeding my dog twice a day every day up until this yr, he is 7 yrs old but sometimes he wouldnt eat what i gave him in the morning and when theres a sheperd around and the pen door is open u know the story:D. I started feeding once a day now even if he's out hunting for 4-6 hrs which is probably once a week and maybe the odd hr during the week. I started giving him mince once a wk a package only €3 for 0.750kg and i throw in a multi vitamin called Dog Vital with the grub and mix it up. I normally feed him brown bread and pedigree chum nuts during the week and the odd can of dog food for a change and substitute brown for white bread the odd time too.I know some fellows will not to feed any bread to their dogs only nuts but thats me and my budget.

shotie

i feed my dogs once a day at 6pm every night and there flying it.i only feed them dry nuts (2 cup fulls in each dish) with the odd egg mixed in .

staghunter

i wouldnt feed massbrook to any dog.i know of lads at trials winning it and giving it away or trying to give it away.i feed the dogs orlando complete from lidl with 25 percent protein once a day in the evening and theyd get mince and eggs twice a week.and the dogs hunt perfect all day

fiestaman

Jesus is there any dry food out there thats good. No matter what ya get its always sh**e.

EPointer=Birdss

fiestaman wrote: »

Jesus is there any dry food out there thats good. No matter what ya get its always sh**e.

Might be worth it's own thread. A what is the best dry dog food thread...

fiestaman

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Might be worth it's own thread. A what is the best dry dog food thread...

Id say it would be fun.

EPointer=Birdss

fiestaman wrote: »

Id say it would be fun.

Thread started. The vast majority here should have dogs so it would be good if we got a good population of answers to see if there any common trends or favorites.

fiestaman

Well this is what ive decided to use now. Heard good reports in the last few days from lads about it. Have a bag here the last 3 days and small hard stool left in the run. Gave him plenty of food the last week , weighed him and hes 18.5kg. He was 17kg the 3rd week in november. fed him 1/3 of food at 7am thismorning and hunted from 10.45 until 2 and he was sound. E25 a bag from supplier down here.

http://bluegrasshorsefeed.com/dog-products/bluegrass-dog-delight-nuggets.html

kermitpwee

fiestaman wrote: »

Well this is what ive decided to use now. Heard good reports in the last few days from lads about it. Have a bag here the last 3 days and small hard stool left in the run. Gave him plenty of food the last week , weighed him and hes 18.5kg. He was 17kg the 3rd week in november. fed him 1/3 of food at 7am thismorning and hunted from 10.45 until 2 and he was sound. E25 a bag from supplier down here.

http://bluegrasshorsefeed.com/dog-products/bluegrass-dog-delight-nuggets.html[/QUOTE]

Good man unless he is a small dog you would want to put a bit more weight on him to help with stamina. My own lad is 24kg

fiestaman

kermitpwee wrote: »

fiestaman wrote: »

Well this is what ive decided to use now. Heard good reports in the last few days from lads about it. Have a bag here the last 3 days and small hard stool left in the run. Gave him plenty of food the last week , weighed him and hes 18.5kg. He was 17kg the 3rd week in november. fed him 1/3 of food at 7am thismorning and hunted from 10.45 until 2 and he was sound. E25 a bag from supplier down here.

http://bluegrasshorsefeed.com/dog-products/bluegrass-dog-delight-nuggets.html[/QUOTE]

Good man unless he is a small dog you would want to put a bit more weight on him to help with stamina. My own lad is 24kg

Jasus lad, thats a bull. I dont think id call him a big dog anyway, is there measurements to take to see, as in height and lenght of body. I thought he looked good now at the weight he is, anymore id say he was fat. Heres a pic
From last week

Jimbob79

Hi all,
Like all I've tried loads of products with very mixed results. Found that redmills went through them. Massbrook had the run full of sh$t. The cheaper foods the dogs didn't keep their condition. Met the bluegrass rep in birr in 2012 and gave it a try. Have to say I am very impressed. The dogs are doing fantastic. I've a couple of mates using it too and all very impressed. So definetly recommend it. Also find them very good to deal with.

Jb

fiestaman

Jimbob79 wrote: »

Hi all,
Like all I've tried loads of products with very mixed results. Found that redmills went through them. Massbrook had the run full of sh$t. The cheaper foods the dogs didn't keep their condition. Met the bluegrass rep in birr in 2012 and gave it a try. Have to say I am very impressed. The dogs are doing fantastic. I've a couple of mates using it too and all very impressed. So definetly recommend it. Also find them very good to deal with.

Jb

Are you feeding the DOG DELIGHT NUGGETS or the BLUEGRASS QUICK NUT or the BLUEGRASS WORKING DOG. few guys i spoke to that use it couldnt fault it either, dogs going very very well.

kermitpwee

Ya I have met a lad that used bluegrass working food and his springers were in nice shape. That is a nice looking dog you have, in the first pic he does look thin to me but you never know really from pics. Any trialling men I met had always skinny dogs and I have tried that myself but found they work longer when they have more condition on them. A working dog on a long day draws his energy from fat so need an ample supply. My own 24kg dog was 17kg when I got him 6years ago he was a 2 year old. I kept him at 17kg for 2 years. I then changed vet and the new vet suggested putting weight on him for stamina and performance. I was sceptical but gave it ago as the vet was a hunting man himself. Bingo! Big difference in performance, the dog isn't fat but had a very good bone structure to start which might have helped.

Jimbob79

The working dog. It's their cheapest product but I find it suits my three. I also started giving the dogs cod liver oil capsules 4-5 times a week. Started last summer as Two friends had their vet recommend this for their dogs. I would be out a lot during the season and the dogs are always mad keen and go all day.
The good thing about bluegrass is they will deliver too.