Citywest v Grange Castle

Bull85

Hi all,

Apologies if this is covered in another thread however I am thinking of joining either Citywest or Grange Castle given their proximity to my house. Does anyone have advice on which one they would choose. Hoping to play both courses over the next two weeks however any opinions would be welcome.

Carpo86

Think it's very much a personal preference thing. I personally prefer Grange Castle but know other people who lean the opposite way.

In descriptive terms, Grange Castle is longer and more open while Citywest is shorter and tighter. One big plus that Grange Castle has in its favour is that it has much better drainage (or at least it had, I had played them on consecutive days about 15 months ago and the difference between the two in this respect was massive). Saying that, the greens in Citywest were fantastic this summer and, if you are that way inclined, it has the advantage that you can fly round it in 3 hours or less in a 2/3 ball.

PARlance

I had the same choice last year. I didn't bother playing Citywest as I went for a round in Grange Castle and was very happy with it.

The 6 Par 3's in Citywest was the main factor I didn't even go there for a round. 2 too many for me in a golf course.

yakkson

I decided opposite and went for city west, I am member there 2 yrs now since they became a golf club and best decision I made. The price is also a factor and I had heard that grange castle is difficult to get out on a weekend. Never had any trouble at city west myself.

It's all about preference.

Bull85

In terms of both course which is better?

spacecoyote

Which course is better is entirely subjective.

City West:
Mature parkland, plenty of trees, but short & tight in places. Coupke of the par 4s are probably drivable & first par 5 is a 2 shot hole if you get a good drive away. Nice finishing hole. Not 100%, but think par is around 69? From what I've been told by guys who left Dublin mountain & south county ti join there, it can sometimes be difficult to get out due to sharing the course with hotel guests

Grange castle:
Young parkland, plenty of planting done but will be a few years before the benefit is seen on the course. Par 72, main protection is the length from the medal tees. Theyve put good work into the greens in the last year or so & they are a lot better now than in previous years. Good group of lads & nice atmosphere, though club house is not great. Separate competitions on Sat & Sun, you need to be fairly quick on the timesheet especially to play Saturday but I've never had a weekend when I couldn't get out.

Nozebleed

Im also a member in citywest. Have to say its good value. It is short,tight and it does have 6 par 3's. However it is run well..the comp secretary is excellent,the green keeper does a fine job. The greens are some of the best around. Ive only had trouble getting on the timesheet in the winter months,hotel guests dont get out on course until 2pm in summer so there no interferance on that front. Anyway its a good course surrounded by 4 or 5 other courses such as beech pk,grange castle,lisheen springs and mow the pga in johnstown. So plenty if opens in the locality to be played.

Barnaboy

I work across the road from Grange Castle so I've played it loads. Have to say it is a very good course for what you pay. My only problems with it is that it is way too open, you can be wild off the tee and not get into trouble far too often. Don't like the clubhouse either.

That said it is well maintained. Some nice holes too.

I've enjoyed Citywest any time I've played it.

It's a tough one!

Bull85

Barnaboy wrote: »

I work across the road from Grange Castle so I've played it loads. Have to say it is a very good course for what you pay. My only problems with it is that it is way too open, you can be wild off the tee and not get into trouble far too often. Don't like the clubhouse either.

That said it is well maintained. Some nice holes too.

I've enjoyed Citywest any time I've played it.

It's a tough one!

That's handy for me as I am fairly new to the game and off the tee I wouldn't be great!!

PARlance

Bull85 wrote: »

That's handy for me as I am fairly new to the game and off the tee I wouldn't be great!!

Play the two and decide for yourself chief

smokie72

Heard it through the grapevine that the maintenance for Grange Castle G.C. has been tendered out and that the council staff working there have or will be transferred to other sections in the council or have been offered redundancy.

Macker1

smokie72 wrote: »

Heard it through the grapevine that the maintenance for Grange Castle G.C. has been tendered out and that the council staff working there have or will be transferred to other sections in the council or have been offered redundancy.

Did the grapevine happen to shed any light on why this is potentially happening.

Saving money or Improving condition of course ??

smokie72

Here's a couple of links for you

http://www.mytenders.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=NOV411337

http://ireland-tenders.eu/2020_Manage_Maintain_and_Operate_Grange_Castle_Golf_Club_by_way_of_a_Concession_arrangement_2013_Dublin

Heard a few weeks ago that the staff there will be finished the end of December

First Up

smokie72 wrote: »

Here's a couple of links for you

http://www.mytenders.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=NOV411337

http://ireland-tenders.eu/2020_Manage_Maintain_and_Operate_Grange_Castle_Golf_Club_by_way_of_a_Concession_arrangement_2013_Dublin

Heard a few weeks ago that the staff there will be finished the end of December

My preference would be Grange Castle by a comfortable margin - better layout and a decent test. The change to the course maintenance arrangements is a potential worry but overall GC has been well looked after and many improvements have been made over the years so hopefully standards will be maintained.
I understand Citywest is out of NAMA. That is welcome but it is too soon to know the new owners plans, or commitment to the golf part of the operation.
The OP could also look at Palmerstown House, just down the road.

Bull85

First Up wrote: »

My preference would be Grange Castle by a comfortable margin - better layout and a decent test. The change to the course maintenance arrangements is a potential worry but overall GC has been well looked after and many improvements have been made over the years so hopefully standards will be maintained.
I understand Citywest is out of NAMA. That is welcome but it is too soon to know the new owners plans, or commitment to the golf part of the operation.
The OP could also look at Palmerstown House, just down the road.

Any idea how much membership is in Palmerstown House?

Carpo86

Bull85 wrote: »

Any idea how much membership is in Palmerstown House?

€1,000 per year all in.

Bull85

smokie72 wrote: »

Here's a couple of links for you

http://www.mytenders.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=NOV411337

http://ireland-tenders.eu/2020_Manage_Maintain_and_Operate_Grange_Castle_Golf_Club_by_way_of_a_Concession_arrangement_2013_Dublin

Heard a few weeks ago that the staff there will be finished the end of December

Has there been any update to this- Do any members have any information?

buzz

@ Bull85 - I am in the same boat and I actually logged on to create the same thread until I saw yours. I live close enough to GC but only 10 miles from City West. I have played GC tonnes of times and I do like it but I haven't played City West.

What is the price for both?

Did you join yet?

Danny dyers double

I Joined GC yesterday myself . 750 full member .

They have a good payment plan but i hope to clear mine in next few weeks .

Im only 2 mins away from the course so Its a no brainer for me . I like GC course and they have a separete 7 hole course i can play if i have a spare hour free . Plus GC have a chipping area and a putting green which Citywest doesnt have.

My sole reason of joining is to practice , practice and more practice . Im only playing about 18 months so im planning on giving it everything this year to try and inprove .

I played Citywest twice but both days i played we had terrible weather so i dont have fond memories myself but it does have a bar which can be a big plus to some people .

PARlance

Danny dyers double wrote: »

I Joined GC yesterday myself . 750 full member .

They have a good payment plan but i hope to clear mine in next few weeks .

Im only 2 mins away from the course so Its a no brainer for me . I like GC course and they have a separete 7 hole course i can play if i have a spare hour free . Plus GC have a chipping area and a putting green which Citywest doesnt have.

My sole reason of joining is to practice , practice and more practice . Im only playing about 18 months so im planning on giving it everything this year to try and inprove .

I played Citywest twice but both days i played we had terrible weather so i dont have fond memories myself but it does have a bar which can be a big plus to some people .

Welcome DDD, I'll keep an eye out for you, you'll be the one going around acting the hard man speaking in a cockney accent? Or do you just look like Danny Dyers?

Danny dyers double

I really dont know why i chose that stupid user name to be honest ðŸ˜႒ðŸ˜႒

Yeah i hope to see you around the club . The chap from the club said he would send me the info to book online ........ But still waiting

PARlance

Danny dyers double wrote: »

I really dont know why i chose that stupid user name to be honest ðŸ˜႒ðŸ˜႒

Yeah i hope to see you around the club . The chap from the club said he would send me the info to book online ........ But still waiting

You'll need to get your 3 cards handed in before you can book online afaik.
(I think you need your GUI to log into it)
In the meantime you can phone, or if you want, I can book you in if needed.

Danny dyers double

Oh right i must of took him up wrong . Im not in a major hurry just yet to get my HC as i dont think Ill play the club comps till March but thanks for the offer mate.

I hope to just get out for casual rounds for the next few weekends

martinsvi

I haven't been back to GC since my game was interrupted by a local "gang" walking their dogs on the course, by the looks of it, they knew the course pretty well so I'm thinking they do this regularly.

since I live in the area, I prefer Lisheen or Palmerstown, I haven't bought the membership anywhere as I don't get out that often for it to be worth it and I'm not competitive

smokie72

Bull85 wrote: »

Has there been any update to this- Do any members have any information?

As far as I know the people who got the contract for maintenance won't take over til around June. Meanwhile their were 8 members of staff employed by the council. Six took redundancy and there are still 2 working there. How they will manage I don't know.

Macker1

smokie72 wrote: »

As far as I know the people who got the contract for maintenance won't take over til around June. Meanwhile their were 8 members of staff employed by the council. Six took redundancy and there are still 2 working there. How they will manage I don't know.

A bit of concern that causes especially as renewal of membership is coming up?

I'm a member there and when I asked about the tender nothing much was known at the point. Target Golf behind the desk reckoned that wouldn't be any impact to the members.

Hard to maintain course if 6 of the staff are finishing up. Do you know if there is a gap between the folks taking redundancy and the new crowd taking over in June.

PARlance

Macker1 wrote: »

A bit of concern that causes especially as renewal of membership is coming up?

I'm a member there and when I asked about the tender nothing much was known at the point. Target Golf behind the desk reckoned that wouldn't be any impact to the members.

Hard to maintain course if 6 of the staff are finishing up. Do you know if there is a gap between the folks taking redundancy and the new crowd taking over in June.

Afaik, the decision will be made in the next 2 weeks. Council have pushed it out a few times.

Below is just my thoughts:
I would imagine that it will be a new green keeping team in place. I can't see the two remaining green keepers will switch over and work for Target or whoever wins the tender!
They would be daft to leave a council job IMO if they have years service racked up.
I'm guessing that the council will have to redeploy them elsewhere. The remaining two green keepers are probably too young to be taking redundancy.

Can I see Target or ANother employing an 8 man green keeping team? nope. But maybe 8 was a bit excessive. I'm pretty sure there was a 14 man team employed a few years ago (member mentioned it during a round this year).

A golf management company won't be employing at the current levels I'd guess. But there may be efficiencies in the private sector! Just maybe

Still not ideal situation tbh, and reassurances are grand but only time will tell. I think I'm happy to give it a go for this year and see how it pans out.

spacecoyote

PARlance wrote: »

Afaik, the decision will be made in the next 2 weeks. Council have pushed it out a few times.

Below is just my thoughts:
I would imagine that it will be a new green keeping team in place. I can't see the two remaining green keepers will switch over and work for Target or whoever wins the tender!
They would be daft to leave a council job IMO if they have years service racked up.
I'm guessing that the council will have to redeploy them elsewhere. The remaining two green keepers are probably too young to be taking redundancy.

Can I see Target or ANother employing an 8 man green keeping team? nope. But maybe 8 was a bit excessive. I'm pretty sure there was a 14 man team employed a few years ago (member mentioned it during a round this year).

A golf management company won't be employing at the current levels I'd guess. But there may be efficiencies in the private sector! Just maybe

Still not ideal situation tbh, and reassurances are grand but only time will tell. I think I'm happy to give it a go for this year and see how it pans out.

yeah, from what I can gather from chatting with committee/former committee members I'd say they are welcoming this. Supposedly plans have been put forward re fees, etc... In the past to try generate business & were generally blocked by the council on all fronts.

So, depending on who comes in there could be improvements for members.

Not 100% as to whether target would take it on. They have generally got contracts to manage any council owned club's as far as I know & may want to stick with that kind of contract?

PARlance

spacecoyote wrote: »

yeah, from what I can gather from chatting with committee/former committee members I'd say they are welcoming this. Supposedly plans have been put forward re fees, etc... In the past to try generate business & were generally blocked by the council on all fronts.

So, depending on who comes in there could be improvements for members.

Not 100% as to whether target would take it on. They have generally got contracts to manage any council owned club's as far as I know & may want to stick with that kind of contract?

Was talking to one of the Target lads and they have tendered and would like it.
There's another one of the bigger golf mgt co's in for it too...according to that guy... Rhymes with Barr

Danny dyers double

Joined Grange Castle two weeks ago . Anyway i got the go ahead of the Mrs to play Sat and Sun to get a couple of cards in , so rang the club 9 oclock Monday morning to book in for both days only to be told they had no available tee times on either day . But yet they had a couple of slots on tee times .

Iv no GUI so i cant book online yet and work Mon to Fri so cant play midweek . After already paying €500 to say im pissed off would be an understatment .

PARlance

Danny dyers double wrote: »

Joined Grange Castle two weeks ago . Anyway i got the go ahead of the Mrs to play Sat and Sun to get a couple of cards in , so rang the club 9 oclock Monday morning to book in for both days only to be told they had no available tee times on either day . But yet they had a couple of slots on tee times .

Iv no GUI so i cant book online yet and work Mon to Fri so cant play midweek . After already paying €500 to say im pissed off would be an understatment .

When you say looking for a tee time, does that mean that you don't want to play in the comp?

What slots are up on tee times?
I looked at the members login there and all slots (bar 4 on sat) for the weekend are for the members comp. It's full at the moment but ask them to put you on the waiting list and you'll get one.

I'll book you in for the weekend after if you want to PM me.

digginz

Danny dyers double wrote: »

Joined Grange Castle two weeks ago . Anyway i got the go ahead of the Mrs to play Sat and Sun to get a couple of cards in , so rang the club 9 oclock Monday morning to book in for both days only to be told they had no available tee times on either day . But yet they had a couple of slots on tee times .

Iv no GUI so i cant book online yet and work Mon to Fri so cant play midweek . After already paying €500 to say im pissed off would be an understatment .

Ask to be put on the waiting list, there is always time freeing up at the end of the week.

Danny dyers double

Spacecoyote has very kindly sorted me out .

No i just rang to book a casual round but found it very strange for it to be fully booked for both days at 9 oclock Monday morning .

The guy from the club booked me in for Sat week anyway , But thanks for the offer Parlance Its much appricated

spacecoyote

Danny dyers double wrote: »

Spacecoyote has very kindly sorted me out .

No i just rang to book a casual round but found it very strange for it to be fully booked for both days at 9 oclock Monday morning .

The guy from the club booked me in for Sat week anyway , But thanks for the offer Parlance Its much appricated

Saturday morning timesheet opens at 7.30am the previous Saturday & will be basically full inside 5-10 mins.

Sunday opens at 7.30am the previous Monday & fills up pretty much as quick.

Just so you know, your cards for handicap will need to be signed by gui members

Danny dyers double

I completely got my wires crossed with Spacecoyote as i taught he booked for casual round but it was comp so Ill leave it and just play 7 hole course and hopefully get out and play 9 holes afterwards

dar_cool

when i joined a club last year and didnt know anyone the pro suggested i put my name down in the competitions, got my 3 cards signed within 2 weeks by playing all the club competition with members

PARlance

Danny dyers double wrote: »

I completely got my wires crossed with Spacecoyote as i taught he booked for casual round but it was comp so Ill leave it and just play 7 hole course and hopefully get out and play 9 holes afterwards

I was thinking you were looking for a casual 18.
Nearly all the timesheet is reserved for members but it's competition slots.

It would be rare than a member would want a casual round over a comp.

Just a FYI, your 3 cards don't need to be your first 3 rounds. You could jump in a competition spot and see how you get on.

Sean Quagmire

I play GC a fair bit and was very close to getting full membership there but I won’t now. Every time I am in the club house lately I am hearing members complain about backlogs on the course. Was there myself on Sunday and heard one staff member say there was a “queue of about 20 people trying to get membership”. Maybe they have spotted the overcrowding issue. Personally I do see a fair bit of backlogs especially with consecutive 4 balls ahead of you.

Now I am looking at either City West or Elm Green which I am a fan of but the extra distance is putting me of a bit. I don’t know of any other course around the €700 mark as that is my budget. Unless anyone here can recommend a club? Moyvally offering good deals too but again it’s a bit of a stretch.

Probably play around 24 rounds a year so @ 30e a round it works out at €720. I’d probably be best avoiding membership but I would like a GUI.

spacecoyote

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

I play GC a fair bit and was very close to getting full membership there but I won’t now. Every time I am in the club house lately I am hearing members complain about backlogs on the course. Was there myself on Sunday and heard one staff member say there was a “queue of about 20 people trying to get membership”. Maybe they have spotted the overcrowding issue. Personally I do see a fair bit of backlogs especially with consecutive 4 balls ahead of you.

Now I am looking at either City West or Elm Green which I am a fan of but the extra distance is putting me of a bit. I don’t know of any other course around the €700 mark as that is my budget. Unless anyone here can recommend a club? Moyvally offering good deals too but again it’s a bit of a stretch.

Probably play around 24 rounds a year so @ 30e a round it works out at €720. I’d probably be best avoiding membership but I would like a GUI.

Part of what you're seeing though is going out on the course after the blocked member tee times.it's members only on the course from opening time to around 11am on a Sat & Sun, and you won't see any 4 balls on the course during those times.once you hit 11 course opens to the public & they will allow societies, etc out in 4-balls which will def slow things down.

If you're out early in the morning it's not beyond the realms of possibility to get round in under 4 hours. I'd say the average round time for members is prob bout 4hrs 10? A little longer on medal weekends. The first 4 holes can be slow sometimes but generally once you hit the 5th things will open up.

There will always be grumbles from some members who don't want to have to wake up early to book a slot, but if you're on the online booking site when the timesheet opens you'll get a tee time every time.

Macker1

spacecoyote wrote: »

Part of what you're seeing though is going out on the course after the blocked member tee times.it's members only on the course from opening time to around 11am on a Sat & Sun, and you won't see any 4 balls on the course during those times.once you hit 11 course opens to the public & they will allow societies, etc out in 4-balls which will def slow things down.

If you're out early in the morning it's not beyond the realms of possibility to get round in under 4 hours. I'd say the average round time for members is prob bout 4hrs 10? A little longer on medal weekends. The first 4 holes can be slow sometimes but generally once you hit the 5th things will open up.

There will always be grumbles from some members who don't want to have to wake up early to book a slot, but if you're on the online booking site when the timesheet opens you'll get a tee time every time.

Have to say as a member this is not always the case. The limited amount of slots on the weekend especially on Sundays are snapped up within a few minutes of the time sheet opening at 7:30am. Supply is not equal to demand and this does result in members missing out from time to time. The club should be looking at reducing the amount of holes played during the round in winter and free up some extra slots. A lot of other clubs have 9-hole or 12-hole comps during winter. This would also help protect part of the course during the heavier conditions. Played last Sunday and the course is being cut up badly in parts.

spacecoyote

Macker1 wrote: »

Have to say as a member this is not always the case. The limited amount of slots on the weekend especially on Sundays are snapped up within a few minutes of the time sheet opening at 7:30am. Supply is not equal to demand and this does result in members missing out from time to time. The club should be looking at reducing the amount of holes played during the round in winter and free up some extra slots. A lot of other clubs have 9-hole or 12-hole comps during winter. This would also help protect part of the course during the heavier conditions. Played last Sunday and the course is being cut up badly in parts.

not arguing with either of those points. If they switched to 14 hole comps like for the ladies they could get some more slots there alright. You'll just have members grumbling about not getting to play 18 then instead

Yes the timesheet fills within minutes. I have an alarm set on my phone to go off at 7.28 on a Monday morning. I go on to the site & start refreshing & any time I've done that I've never missed a slot. If you're looking at 7.35 then yes you'll struggle to find many slots

Ciaranra

Could not play in a club like that.
Im not sure what time im playing weekend see what weather is like before i go out

PARlance

Ciaranra wrote: »

Could not play in a club like that.
Im not sure what time im playing weekend see what weather is like before i go out

Definitely not the club for you so.

I'd expect you'll be paying more of a premium for the luxury of a club that keeps excess members slots so that fair weather golfers who plan late in the week get their spot.

Ciaranra

Yea y not il check weather tonight see what window i have

ForeRight

Just a query about grange castle. I was told told today that south Dublin county council sold it to some group called synergy golf?

Anybody know any details or how anything may be affected?

First Up

ForeRight wrote: »

Just a query about grange castle. I was told told today that south Dublin county council sold it to some group called synergy golf?

Anybody know any details or how anything may be affected?

I presume that's the award of the management/maintenance contract discussed earlier in the thread.

ForeRight

First Up wrote: »

I presume that's the award of the management/maintenance contract discussed earlier in the thread.

Oops



*face goes red*

spacecoyote

ForeRight wrote: »

Oops



*face goes red*

Yep, that's it alright, synergy is basically a combination of target golf with a partner who will be looking after course maintenance side of things as far as I know, so you'll be seeing the same lads in the clubhouse but new lads out looking after the course