South East Asia : money

LINKY.V.18

Hi,
I will be travelling to southeast Asia in a few weeks for several months backpacking.
Does anyone with knowledge or experience have any advice regarding how best to take my money.
The international ATM fees is the biggest issue for me.

Are there any Irish banks that don't charge international ATM/transaction fees.

im also looking into prepaid travel cards. The o2 money card seems to be the cheapest with only 1euro fee per ATM withdrawal.

Something like this http://www.caxtonfx.com/currency-cards/ which has no ATM or transaction fees would be brilliant but this is only for UK residents.

I will most likely be taking a combination of cards, for backup reasons. But if i could find the best option to save on fees for my main method of getting money out that would be ideal.

I would really appreciate any help or info from any, particularly anyone with has gone through all this.

Many thanks for any help guys.

Stinicker

I have gone through all this several times and got absolutely ripped off with bank charges each time, I was charged over €100 alone in Credit Card and bank fees this year alone whilst in Thailand and the Philippines.

Best way to avoid getting ripped off in fees is just forget about the Credit Card and carry Euro and change it to local. Obviously don't carry several thousand because of the risk of theft, I have found in Thailand that you get the best exchange rate by just changing Euro to Baht in the differening money changers.

The O2 money card is actually worse than a Credit Card as it charges 2.75% per transaction (the €1 is for Eurozone only). The Wirecard Visa would workout a much cheaper option.

I wrote this post two years ago about managing money in Thailand.

In Thailand and in the Philippines there is an ATM charge of between 150bt (€3.40) to 180bt (€4.10) and 200PHP (€3.30) in the Philippines. This sounds small but it really stung me on my third trip to Thailand this year.

I am a Bank of Ireland customer and for the last 5 years they have continuously ripped me off on fees when I traveled overseas and each and every single time they limit my card to tiny amounts, in countries like Thailand and the Philippines where there is a charge on each transaction this is a real killer because you find yourself having to make multiple transactions to get enough money. I found myself completely cut-off from funds for a week in Australia in 2010 thanks to Bank of Ireland and could only withdraw €100 a day on my Laser card at the time, Credit Card refused everything, I needed to book flights and pay for hotels etc. at the time but I was lucky in that I am an additional cardholder on my parents card (for just those type of emergency situations) and was able to use that but it was seriously embarrassing and very annoying.

The most I could withdraw in a single day in Thailand on my last trip there was 10,000THB but at a maximum of 5,000THB (€125) per transaction having to make two transactions in oneday to get 10,000THB; and having spent 5 weeks in Asia I ended up making nearly two dozen different cash withdrawals from the ATM's there and at €3.40 - €4.10 in Thai atm charges and then when you take into account the Cross Border handling fee of 1.75% per transaction I was paying between €7 - €9 each time I went to the ATM machine to withdraw anywhere from €150 - €250 as the BOI had my card restricted (for which they blame Mastercard). I ended up paying €136 in total between all the fees, €55 in the local ATM charges and over €80 to the rip-off Bank of Ireland.

My advise is take a nice amount of cash from home, load up the Credit Card to avoid the 1.5% Cash Advance fee which is charged ontop of the 1.75% cross border handling fee if your Credit Card is not in Credit. I never loaded up my Credit Card on my last trip and it further compounded the ripping off in fees I got.

Ironically for the total amount of money I withdrew on my last trip If I had just wired it to myself all in one go with Western Union it would have cost just €37 compared to the €136 I ultimately paid between Bank of Ireland charges and local ATM charges. Obviously this would be unwise from a security point of view but it just shows the sort of rip-off Irish banks charge their customers. If going to somewhere like Thailand for several weeks at a time it is best to try open a local bank account there and wire across money online from Ireland to avoid the litany of fees and charges that Irish banks hit people with.

Finally the ATM's will always offer to fix the exchange rate at a rate so you know the rate in Euro never take this as it is always a worse rate than if you just let your Irish bank do the conversion.
http://transferwise.com/blog/2012-11/choose-local-currency-at-foreign-ATM

killbillvol2

You're going to be screwed on ATM transactions by all the banks. There are a few ways to lessen the pain.

Make sure you have a decent withdrawal limit on your debit card. I'm with PTSB and it's €700. If they limited me to €100 I'd obviously change banks.

Withdraw the largest amount possible per transaction as there's an upper limit on the charge per transaction.

In Thailand most ATMs allow 20000 baht but some allow 25000 and even 30000. Also, Aeon Bank don't charge the 150 baht transaction fee. Google locations.

I don't remember what the limits were in Cambodia or Vietnam and I never spent enough in Laos to have to worry about it.

Loading your credit card is OK in theory but you're not covered for fraud on any amount you have in credit, a big no no for me.

The best way to save money is to carry cash and exchange it as you go along but that obviously carries some risks!!

rsl1976

The limit in withdrawing from ATM's abroad is set by the banks there not by your bank here.

killbillvol2

rsl1976 wrote: »

The limit in withdrawing from ATM's abroad is set by the banks there not by your bank here.

Sort of. If your bank here only allows you to withdraw €100 per day it's a moot point what the local bank will allow.

Stinicker

Forget about Debit Cards, my Visa Debit card with Bank of Ireland charges 3.5% cross-border handling fee at the ATM compared to 1.75% with my Mastercard Credit Card.

The Withdrawal limits are set by both foreign banks and Irish Banks, the Thai banks will allow a much higher withdrawal than what Bank of Ireland allow.

This summer the most I could withdraw was just under €150/6000thb and this was on one transaction, most of the time it was limited to 5000bt/€125.

Bank of Ireland deliberately set a low withdrawal limit so they can rip you off in associated fees when you then have to make multiple withdrawals, to get the same amount which should be possible in one transaction.

Aeon bank in Thailand are introducing the 150bt ATM charge from Jan 1st 2014 anyway, I have read that Citibank in Thailand do not charge the 150/bt charge now, the charge was 180bt for Credit Cards and 150bt for Debit Cards this year, despite the higher ATM charge a preloaded Credit Card is the cheapest card system for withdrwaing in Thailand.

Another option for those who live near the border (or travel to the UK) is to buy travellers cheques in a Royal Mail Post Office and cash them in a bank over there then. Much higher protection from fraud and for larger amounts much cheaper than the litany of rip-off bank fees.

killbillvol2

Stinicker wrote: »

Forget about Debit Cards, my Visa Debit card with Bank of Ireland charges 3.5% cross-border handling fee at the ATM compared to 1.75% with my Mastercard Credit Card.

The Withdrawal limits are set by both foreign banks and Irish Banks, the Thai banks will allow a much higher withdrawal than what Bank of Ireland allow.

This summer the most I could withdraw was just under €150/6000thb and this was on one transaction, most of the time it was limited to 5000bt/€125.

Bank of Ireland deliberately set a low withdrawal limit so they can rip you off in associated fees when you then have to make multiple withdrawals, to get the same amount which should be possible in one transaction.

Aeon bank in Thailand are introducing the 150bt ATM charge from Jan 1st 2014 anyway, I have read that Citibank in Thailand do not charge the 150/bt charge now, the charge was 180bt for Credit Cards and 150bt for Debit Cards this year, despite the higher ATM charge a preloaded Credit Card is the cheapest card system for withdrwaing in Thailand.

Another option for those who live near the border (or travel to the UK) is to buy travellers cheques in a Royal Mail Post Office and cash them in a bank over there then. Much higher protection from fraud and for larger amounts much cheaper than the litany of rip-off bank fees.

Why would you stay with BOI?

Stinicker

Where they live they are the only local branch and also I don't think I'd qualify for a new Credit Card with a different bank now.

jamo2oo9

Are you still a student in college? If so, you can join AIB's Student Account and they will give you a Visa Debit with no charges for any transaction you make however there is no interest rate.

LINKY.V.18

I appreciate all the responses guys.
I'm with Ulster bank. Just quit my job the other week and unfortunately didn't organise myself in good time. Went to bank today to inquire about credit card but obviously couldn't get approved due to the fact I am now unemployed. If I had applied for it a few weeks ago I would have got it. However, when I asked about rates and fees compared to debit card I was told there was no difference.

I am looking at this travel credit card that you pre load to use http://www.swirlcard.com/

Seems pretty good. €1.50 flat rate for atm withdrawal, 5% currency conversion fees though. Need to do bit more research on it first though.

Will definitely be taking mostly cash for Thailand anyway. Some $100 bills that I can exchange for bht.

Cheers again for the help and discussion lads.

killbillvol2

LINKY.V.18 wrote: »

I appreciate all the responses guys.
I'm with Ulster bank. Just quit my job the other week and unfortunately didn't organise myself in good time. Went to bank today to inquire about credit card but obviously couldn't get approved due to the fact I am now unemployed. If I had applied for it a few weeks ago I would have got it. However, when I asked about rates and fees compared to debit card I was told there was no difference.

I am looking at this travel credit card that you pre load to use http://www.swirlcard.com/

Seems pretty good. €1.50 flat rate for atm withdrawal, 5% currency conversion fees though. Need to do bit more research on it first though.

Will definitely be taking mostly cash for Thailand anyway. Some $100 bills that I can exchange for bht.

Cheers again for the help and discussion lads.

Why dollars? You'll lose out on two exchange transactions. You only need dollars if you're going to Burma.

5% currency conversion + €1.50 will absolutely fleece you compared to Ulster Bank.

Stinicker

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Why dollars? You'll lose out on two exchange transactions. You only need dollars if you're going to Burma.

5% currency conversion + €1.50 will absolutely fleece you compared to Ulster Bank.

Totally agreed, the Wirecard visa I linked to earlier is much better value than that card.

LINKY.V.18

Ok on closer inspection that swirl card is indeeda bunch of crap. The max load per anum is too low for my needs anyway and yes 5% conversion fee would fleece me.

I initially dismissed the wise card because it appeared from your link it wasn't available to Ireland.

There's a 2% atm fee with a €4.50 min. However the currency conversion fee is only 1.5% so that's obviously very good.

The only difference with my using my Ulster bank debit card is that the min atm fee is €3 also at 2%, so it's more or less the same from what I can make out.

The added security of having pre loaded credit card that doesn't have to access to all my savings is a big advantage though. I'm trying to find out if there is a very low load amount per year like the swirl card. If not I will probably get it.

I will be going to Myanmar and elsewhere in southeast Asia: as to why I mentioned bringing the dollars. Also it's my understanding that dollars still speak louder than other currencies and it can in certain places be much easier to convert than euros.

Maybe I'll take some euros to change in Thailand and use mostly cash for usage to avoid atm fees, as well as some dollars for those other times and when I travel beyond Thailand.

Thanks again for the helpful discussion.

killbillvol2

Stinicker wrote: »

Totally agreed, the Wirecard visa I linked to earlier is much better value than that card.

How do you get it in Ireland?

Stinicker

killbillvol2 wrote: »

How do you get it in Ireland?

Good question, it appears that you can't, I have a "Virtual" Wirecard Mastercard since 2008 before I got my Credit Card but when I just read into it now it seems that the Plastic Card is only available to purchase in Germany. So its of no use in Ireland, unless you happened to be in Germany where you could get the actual physical card.

lollsangel

Why not open an account in an international bank like hsbc?

LINKY.V.18

Turns out that the mywirecard also has a €2,500 max load per year.
I'm fairly sure I could have gotten a plastic mMasterCard shipped to me, it was looking like a lot of trouble though as its mostly geared up for Germany. So I'm nearly glad the limit is the deciding negative against it.
Anyway I give up.
It'll be Ulster bank debit cards and cash, maybe a few travelers cheques too.

Cheers for the all the help guys, hopefully somebody will find this thread useful in the future. Conclusion is: there is little to do from being caught in foreign charges.
Maybe in the future it will be better. Charles Schwab bank in America for example charges no foreign atm fees. Even Britain has much better options.

Regarding the suggestion to open an international hsbc bank account, seems like it would cost £100 just to open account. Kind of would defeat the purpose.

Gatica

We've put money on the credit card before travelling for withdrawing cash. It was minimal fees for us at the time. We used a second credit card for spending/paying for hotels, goods...

horse7

re;http://www.caxtonfx.com/currency-cards/ can an irish resesident open an account in the north and apply for the caxton card?