Philomena

Ozymandiaz

I just saw the film Philomena the other night, a film that deals with the recent history of this state. It claims to be 'inspired by the story of Philomena Lee'. As a film and a screen story it is really quite well done and Judi Dench and Steve Coogan are wonderful in their parts. I found it very entertaining and moving. Can't fault it on any of those grounds. I came out of the cinema highly impressed but, nonetheless, quite disturbed. I needed to find out just how factual the screen story was and hence this post.

Having investigated the story I have come to three conclusions:

(1) The nuns and the Catholic Church are being maligned by this film for dramatic effect. It is constructed in such a way as to give a false impression of the facts and how they fell out. Some of the scenes are complete fiction.

(2) The Irish will let anybody dictate to them without putting up any resistance. I saw Steve Coogan interviewed about the film weeks ago by Ryan Tubridy and, having researched the story and the film, I now realise that Tubridy, an historian of sorts with research resources to call on, never questioned the falsities in the film and gave him a fairly easy interview.

(3) The Irish are doomed to be judged by these kind of productions and other media images generated by people who have no empathy for us. They are quite damaging and in the course of time become the accepted norm.

History is media generated. History is always the product of the media. How do the Irish wish to be viewed historically? Can we speak for ourselves or will films like Philomena do it for us when we are all long forgotten?

tac foley

Most older folks of my acquaintance are of the opinion that the old 50's movie 'The Quiet Man' is nothing less than a quasi-documentary of rural Ireland at that time.

Do you think that THIS new film will engender a similar illusion about life in Ireland?

For sure, my dad's longest-lasting memories of his education involve being beaten black and blue on a weekly basis by the Christian Brothers who ran the local school.

His three sisters fared no better with the nuns, either.

tac

Manach

Historical accuracy and film making were never co-equivalent.

The movie industry is one of the top grossers as it sells entertainment and not reality. In the case of 'Philomena' it would have the added advantage of casting an inimical message against the Church, which was never a strong stakeholder in a liberal industry - and which never did itself much favours both in poor PR and the awful handling of problems with abuse.
However, this type of human rights were endemic in authoritarian cultures. Such could Ireland have been described as during the post independence period, where according to authors like David Morgan, a nationalist and entrenched system modelled on the prior colonial template. The jurisprudential excuse for breaking up family nowadays has simply moved to that of an underlying premise that the state & its experts knows best. This has lead to hundreds of families been broken up, for no reason other that the misplace faith in experts such as Dr. Roy Meadows in the UK. However, it is unlikely films about this will be made any time soon - no boxoffice potenital.

So from my own families experience, the Church offered a charitable and equitable shelter from such an encompassing state.

Santa Cruz

Corporal punishment in school and in the home was the normal method of punishing children in the 19th century and up to the 1960s. It wasn't exclusive to the Christian Brothers or the Magdalene Laundries. Capital punishment was the norm as was the sending of 17yr olds to the Western Front etc.


The Irish don't want to admit that they made a balls up of independence and that if it wasn't for the religious orders the majority would have had no education or medical services. It's a lot easier to bring out films with stereotyped cruel nuns instead of films about sheep like people who allowed a system of religious control to develop where large families was the norm instead of proper medical means of family planning. We had a country that could not support our grossly excessive population so were unable to fund proper education and medical services.

Frank Lee Midere

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Corporal punishment in school and in the home was the normal method of punishing children in the 19th century and up to the 1960s. It wasn't exclusive to the Christian Brothers or the Magdalene Laundries. Capital punishment was the norm as was the sending of 17yr olds to the Western Front etc.


The Irish don't want to admit that they made a balls up of independence and that if it wasn't for the religious orders the majority would have had no education or medical services. It's a lot easier to bring out films with stereotyped cruel nuns instead of films about sheep like people who allowed a system of religious control to develop where large families was the norm instead of proper medical means of family planning. We had a country that could not support our grossly excessive population so were unable to fund proper education and medical services.

Excessive population? This island can feed millions.

tac foley

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Excessive population? This island can feed millions.

Sure, it does. But they don't live in Ireland........

tac, busy spreading 'Kerry Gold' on his toast.

Jawgap

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Corporal punishment in school and in the home was the normal method of punishing children in the 19th century and up to the 1960s. It wasn't exclusive to the Christian Brothers or the Magdalene Laundries. Capital punishment was the norm as was the sending of 17yr olds to the Western Front etc.


The Irish don't want to admit that they made a balls up of independence and that if it wasn't for the religious orders the majority would have had no education or medical services. It's a lot easier to bring out films with stereotyped cruel nuns instead of films about sheep like people who allowed a system of religious control to develop where large families was the norm instead of proper medical means of family planning. We had a country that could not support our grossly excessive population so were unable to fund proper education and medical services.

Corporal punishment in schools persisted until the 1980s as anyone who went to a CBS will testify......

Also if it wasn't for the religious orders we'd have gotten rid of TB quicker and sooner, had the Mother and Child Scheme and some semblance of a decent health service, and had a unified and more accessible second and third level education service.

And less of this sort of nonsense......

Santa Cruz

Jawgap wrote: »

Corporal punishment in schools persisted until the 1980s as anyone who went to a CBS will testify......

Also if it wasn't for the religious orders we'd have gotten rid of TB quicker and sooner, had the Mother and Child Scheme and some semblance of a decent health service, and had a unified and more accessible second and third level education service.

And less of this sort of nonsense......

Don't believe everything you see on TV

Jawgap

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Don't believe everything you see on TV

.....what about Noel Browne's autobiography - is that not to be believed?

Santa Cruz

Jawgap wrote: »

.....what about Noel Browne's autobiography - is that not to be believed?

An autobiography is hardly going to be self critical. Browne had a lot of faults as well as abilities

Free secondary education was not introduced into this country until 1966. Up to then religious orders provided education to those unable to afford it. This was done to the best of the ability of the religious orders. Of course there was abuse, both physical and sexual, by some of the religious orders. But do not ignore the good work done by manyThe successive governments since 1922 failed to stand up to the church on issues such as contraception and divorce. The people repeatedly re elected these governments

Jawgap

Santa Cruz wrote: »

An autobiography is hardly going to be self critical. Browne had a lot of faults as well as abilities

Free secondary education was not introduced into this country until 1966. Up to then religious orders provided education to those unable to afford it. This was done to the best of the ability of the religious orders. Of course there was abuse, both physical and sexual, by some of the religious orders. But do not ignore the good work done by manyThe successive governments since 1922 failed to stand up to the church on issues such as contraception and divorce. The people repeatedly re elected these governments

........so it's the people and the governments' fault for not resisting rather than the church's fault for not just representing a view but actively intervening in the political and democratic processes of the country in a wholly non-constructive even obstructive fashion?

That's an argument worthy of one religious order............the Jesuits

Btw - I was educated by the Sisters of [no] Mercy and the Christian Brothers and while grateful for the first class education I received, that doesn't blind me to what went on in previous years.

Reekwind

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Excessive population? This island can feed millions.

Apparently the Famine was the fault of Irish family planning, rather than the failure of British economic policy. Similar to how it's the Irish people who are to blame for the abuses of the Church (because they didn't elect anti-clerical governments?). Apparently

gobnaitolunacy

Jawgap wrote: »

Corporal punishment in schools persisted until the 1980s as anyone who went to a CBS will testify......

Didn't have to be a CBS either. Remember well our oul' harpy of a national school teacher enraged at the legislation banning corporal punishment in schools when it came out.

Back OT, a movie isn't intended to be a documentary.