Why do all the Atheists/Agnostics still have their children baptised,confirmed ?

SeantheMan

I'm sure I'd be right in assuming most 20-35 year olds in Ireland are Atheists or Agnostics. The church has little influence on us for the most part.

The current generation of children also grow up without much care for the church as it would be the belief of their parents.

But....everyone still sends their kids to be baptised, get communion and get confirmed.

I don't know any of my friends who go to church or say their prayers or say they believe in God.
BUT...all those who have kids have had them baptised, making their communion etc.

Is it because they don't want their children to be excluded from the 'rest of the class' and because it's been done for generations before ?

Why are we beholden to these rituals if we don't believe in them ?..

I don't have children myself, so am asking all the parents/will be parents out there who are Atheists etc....how you feel about it ?

Unfortunately if it means kids getting onto better schools some people will still have to do it.

del88

Cause the mammies get to wear a nice frock..

whatdoicare

I havent baptised my baby and I wont be either but then again, Im very, very, lucky to be near an educate together school. I had to put her name down for it when she was just a week old to get her place.

Others in Ireland aren't so lucky so they have no choice but to go through the motions and baptise.

o1s1n

Why do 'all'? Speak for yourself there chief!

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Where did you get the "All" in the title?

B.A._Baracus

A bit of hyprocrissy isnt it...

Like be true to how you live your life and how you want your family to live there life. Be it straight, gay, religious, non-religious etc etc. Obviously as others say it isnt all. But i cant for the life of me figure why any would do it.

Toby Take a Bow

SeantheMan wrote: »

.everyone still sends their kids to be baptised, get communion and get confirmed.

Not everyone, OP. But as the other posters have said, sometimes baptising your kids is the only way to get into the local school. Crazy situation, especially as the local school will be getting a vast, vast amount of government subsidies.

The other reason is that not every atheist/agnostic will see getting your kids baptised as hypocritical. For them it's just a ceremony/tradition.

SV

I would have just for decent school reasons but with the educate together schools popping up now it definitely won't be happening.

P_1

Reason #1 - The Irish Mammy x2. I can only imagine the potential shti storm that would ensue when they're told there would be no baptism so people go through the motions for an easy life.

Reason #2 - The Irish education system. Primary schools still discriminate based on religion for their admission policies so people go through the motions for an easy life.

Reason #3 - Any excuse for a piss up.

Chattastrophe!

I won't be baptising my child. If this means having to relocate to be close to a suitable school that will take him, so be it. I'll be putting his name down for a couple of Educate Together schools as soon as he's born, so hopefully he'll get a place.

I know plenty of others who haven't baptised their children either. It's really not uncommon. The more who refuse to do it, the more pressure will be on the state to address the educational issues. NO ONE should have to sign their kid up for a certain religion for the sake of their education.

SmilingLurker

We haven't baptized our two. We hope to get them into the educate together.

Education should be free to all. If religions want to indoctrinate, they should do it out of hours, and putting religion into the entire syllabus is insidious and discriminatory. (Alive O)

It is easier accepting the way things are than asking for change.

keeponhurling

SeantheMan wrote: »

I'm sure I'd be right in assuming most 20-35 year olds in Ireland are Atheists or Agnostics.

Not sure about that

Vicxas

The problem is that it's still social convention to get a child baptised. It's still seen as the norm in ireland

When I've kids I won't be baptising them. Same way I won't be going to a church to get married. I'm not religious. I'm. Not going to pretend I am for a day out.

amdublin

Why does your child need to be baptized to get into the local "good" school.

Surely with the ireland of today they've kids of all different religions who have not been baptized

amdublin

keeponhurling wrote: »

Not sure about that

Well I don't see many of them practicising their religion. Unless you count wearing a big white dress on their wedding day.

BMJD

My 4 year old told me that the local church is where old people go to when they are going to die. Seems legit.

Soft Falling Rain

What's the betting on this thread having at least 6 pages by 11am?

RobbieTheRobber

As some people have mentioned op, schooling is one of the prime reasons often given.
It is also a fair reason, for a laugh you should read the equal status act. The equal status act is there to stop discrimination for various reasons including colour, sexual orientation etc. Oh and religion is another reason you can't discriminate in Ireland except if your a school (which all recieve state funding) then the equal status act explicitly states you can discriminate.

So yeah Irelands state funded schools are allowed to discriminate based on religion.
Obviously this is fair because five year old children and their questioning minds asking their favourite question of why, when being educated on the zombie like christ are a danger to the christian ethos of these schools.

How Strange

I think you're just assuming. I know very few atheists or agnostics who would christen their kids for any reason but I know lots of lazy Catholics who do it for an easy life. Some do it because the local schools won't take them otherwise.

Two kids here and no christenings. One very upset set of grandparents but we wouldn't budge on the matter.

SuperGrover

Why do all the Atheists/Agnostics still have their children baptised,confirmed ?

They don't.

B.A._Baracus

How Strange wrote: »

I think you're just assuming. I know very few atheists or agnostics who would christen their kids for any reason but I know lots of lazy Catholics who do it for an easy life. Some do it because the local schools won't take them otherwise.

Two kids here and no christenings. One very upset set of grandparents but we wouldn't budge on the matter.

ah yes. The "ahhh we're alright, but they are the ones who are *insert comment*" attitude.
I tell, reading athiest replies on boards.ie is something to behold :pac:

RobbieTheRobber

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

ah yes. The "ahhh we're alright, but they are the ones who are *insert comment*" attitude.
I tell, reading athiest replies on boards.ie is something to behold :pac:

And having deluded christians pick and choose which section of gods book (the bible) is actually really the word of god is hilarious. Are you having pork for Christmas BA?

anncoates

I dunno but even as an atheist, I sense that after a dose of this thread, I'll be forcibly entering my kids into the priesthood out of sheer irritation.

fergiesfolly

I don't know of a single school in Galway city that excludes non-Catholics. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
My daughters national school had children of other faiths and atheists, so I can't see how they could stop an unbaptised child from attending.
People like the day out.
Or they're afraid of their mammy.

fishy fishy

no problem with not christening your child - however when the child becomes old enough for school, they won't be let in to be educated without a baptisms cert....

Amirani

amdublin wrote: »

Well I don't see many of them practicising their religion. Unless you count wearing a big white dress on their wedding day.

Not practising your religion doesn't automatically make you an atheist.

SuperGrover

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

ah yes. The "ahhh we're alright, but they are the ones who are *insert comment*" attitude.
I tell, reading athiest replies on boards.ie is something to behold :pac:

It's true, though. Atheists that I know tend not to go the church route for convenience. Friends who identify themselves as Catholics ('cos, like me ma is and that), but live the same way as atheists with no genuine adherence to any aspect of the Catholice lifestyle, use churches for baptisms, weddings, communions, etc.

In my experience. In my social circle. In my family. Maybe it's different for you.

spank_inferno

NiallSparky wrote: »

Not practising your religion doesn't automatically make you an atheist.

It just means your doing it wrong.

Amirani

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I don't know of a single school in Galway city that excludes non-Catholics. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
My daughters national school had children of other faiths and atheists, so I can't see how they could stop an unbaptised child from attending.
People like the day out.
Or they're afraid of their mammy.

The equal status act allows discrimination based on religion to preserve the school's ethos or some such ****e. It may not always be complete exclusion, but there will be preference shown to kids who believe (or pretend to believe) in zombies.

SuperGrover

fishy fishy wrote: »

no problem with not christening your child - however when the child becomes old enough for school, they won't be let in to be educated without a baptisms cert....

Not true, apparently. And even if it was, people should take a stance to change this, rather than giving in to it.

Phoebas

amdublin wrote: »

Why does your child need to be baptized to get into the local "good" school.

Surely with the ireland of today they've kids of all different religions who have not been baptized

School enrolment policies allow discrimination on religious grounds, so although there are plenty of non Catholics in our catholic schools, in many areas places are very limited, so getting baptised often means the difference between having a place or not.

B.A._Baracus

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

And having deluded christians pick and choose which section of gods book (the bible) is actually really the word of god is hilarious. Are you having pork for Christmas BA?

I believe in God. Dont believe in the church, think its a money grabbing business. But see, I dont feel a need to voice my negative views against the church, or any other religion everytime the topic is mentioned.

I respect other peoples beliefs. I don't feel the need to big myself up because of my belief tho.

Amirani

spank_inferno wrote: »

It just means your doing it wrong.

Of course. "Al la carte Catholics" aren't Catholics, but that doesn't mean they're atheists.

RobbieTheRobber

SuperGrover wrote: »

Not true, apparently. And even if it was, people should take a stance to change this, rather than giving in to it.

Taking a stand could mean you're child not attending a school until seven and even then there is no limit on the distance you might be expected to travel each day.

spank_inferno

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I believe in God. Dont believe in the church, think its a money grabbing business. But see, I dont feel a need to voice my negative views against the church, or any other religion everytime the topic is mentioned.

I respect other peoples beliefs. I don't feel the need to big myself up because of my belief tho.

The church is real.
Its not an article of faith.

Being a member of a church but refusing to precess your faith through that church is either laziness or hypocracy.

B.A._Baracus

SuperGrover wrote: »

It's true, though. Atheists that I know tend not to go the church route for convenience. Friends who identify themselves as Catholics ('cos, like me ma is and that), but live the same way as atheists with no genuine adherence to any aspect of the Catholice lifestyle, use churches for baptisms, weddings, communions, etc.

In my experience. In my social circle. In my family. Maybe it's different for you.

I get what you are saying.
I just class it as hypocrissy across the board. Be it some guy who is an anthiest (but as you say, because me ma, etc) who claims to be catholic but only goes to church once a year... thats hypocrissy. Be true to yourself.

Same goes for an athiest who baptised their kid to 'keep up with appearances' (or whatever). Be true to yourself. What ever it may be.

Ghost Buster

fishy fishy wrote: »

no problem with not christening your child - however when the child becomes old enough for school, they won't be let in to be educated without a baptisms cert....

So many unfounded and misinformed generalisations in this thread from the opening post to the example above. Neither of my kids are baptised and both attend our local rural RC ethos school. All that mattered upon enrolment was that they were local.

Phoebas

SuperGrover wrote: »

Not true, apparently. And even if it was, people should take a stance to change this, rather than giving in to it.

It is true (that school enrolment policies can discriminate on religious grounds).

People are taking stances to change it, and it changing (slowly). In the meantime children need to be educated.

Meangadh

I absolutely respect anyone's decision either way on whether they want to baptise their child or not, and on where they want to send their children to school. But I would say to parents who don't want their children going to a "religious" school and automatically choose Educate Together to consider everything else that schools have to offer. There is unbelievable work going on in all sorts of schools around the country and religion is only a small part of what is going on. I understand though some people just simply don't want to be supporting religion, and don't want their children to be exposed in any way to it, so it's a really tough call to make.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Educate Together type of teaching and schooling, it's just not for me. Nothing at all to do with the religion part, just from what I know of the ET style system, I'm not really convinced. Now obviously ET schools vary just like all other schools, and there are some really interesting ideas that other schools could consider- but overall I'm not sure about it. Just speaking from my experience of teaching students in secondary school who attended our local ET primary school- so maybe it's different elsewhere- they've not been quite as focused, driven or at the level academically they should be. But as I said, maybe that's just our local one.

As I said, just consider more than the religion aspect when choosing a school for your child. I'm teaching in a Catholic secondary school with students from all sorts of backgrounds, skin colours, religions, no religions- there's certainly no forcing of anything Catholic with us- sure, it has a presence in the school, but it's only a tiny part of all the other things going on. I've no doubt it's a very difficult decision for parents though.

Phoebas

Ghost Buster wrote: »

So many unfounded and misinformed generalisations in this thread from the opening post to the example above. Neither of my kids are baptised and both attend our local rural RC ethos school. All that mattered upon enrolment was that they were local.

Perhaps your local RC school chose not to include religious belief in their enrolment policy. Or perhaps they had sufficient spaces for everyone and didn't need to refuse anyone from the parish.
Plenty do.

SuperGrover

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Taking a stand could mean you're child not attending a school until seven and even then there is no limit on the distance you might be expected to travel each day.

I understand the temptation for an easier life but this is all the more reason people need to take a stand. Being blackmailed into enrolling into a church. Disgraceful.

I am lucky in that my pair are enrolled in the local ET school. I didn't enrol them in any other school (seems to be the standard backup plan) as I, genuinely, would not baptise them under any circumstances.

I thought this policy was outdated anyway, but apparently not.

RobbieTheRobber

Ghost Buster wrote: »

So many unfounded and misinformed generalisations in this thread from the opening post to the example above. Neither of my kids are baptised and both attend our local rural RC ethos school. All that mattered upon enrolment was that they were local.

Each school creates their own enrollment policy and those policies are allowed to discriminate on religion. I'm delighted in your case you encountered no issues but to allow state funded schools to discriminate is wrong, having a law on the statutes which endorses this religious discrimination is much worse. No matter how often it is applied.

SuperGrover

Phoebas wrote: »

It is true (that school enrolment policies can discriminate on religious grounds).

People are taking stances to change it, and it changing (slowly). In the meantime children need to be educated.

Yeah, not in my locality but just did some googling and apparently still an issue. Ridiculous.

chopperbyrne

Has to be done to ensure a place in the local primary school.

RobbieTheRobber

Meangadh wrote: »

I absolutely respect anyone's decision either way on whether they want to baptise their child or not, and on where they want to send their children to school. But I would say to parents who don't want their children going to a "religious" school and automatically choose Educate Together to consider everything else that schools have to offer. There is unbelievable work going on in all sorts of schools around the country and religion is only a small part of what is going on. I understand though some people just simply don't want to be supporting religion, and don't want their children to be exposed in any way to it, so it's a really tough call to make.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Educate Together type of teaching and schooling, it's just not for me. Nothing at all to do with the religion part, just from what I know of yhe ET system, I'm not really convinced. Now obviously ET schools vary just like all other schools, and there are some really interesting ideas that other schools could consider- but overall I'm not sure about it. Just speaking from my experience of teaching students in secondary school who attended our local ET primary school- so maybe it's different elsewhere- they've not been quite as focused, driven or at the level academically they should be. But as I said, maybe that's just our local one.

As I said, just consider more than the religion aspect when choosing a school for your child. I'm teaching in a Catholic secondary school with students from all sorts of backgrounds, skin colours, religions, no religions- there's certainly no forcing of anything Catholic with us- sure, it has a presence in the school, but it's only a tiny part of all the other things going on. I've no doubt it's a very difficult decision for parents though.

How many hours a week are used in religious education?
How many hours a week are used during Communion and confirmation on religious education?

Maximus Alexander

I don't have any kids, but when I do I will probably get them baptised. It certainly won't do them any harm and it will make my dad and my grandmother happy.

They have their own forum where you can ask them, but please read their charter before doing so and use the search function as it doesn't sound like a new subject at all.