French pub fined €9,000 after customers returned empties to bar

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/french-pub-fined-9000-after-customers-returned-empties-to-bar--because-its-undeclared-labour-9018432.html

French officials have fined a pub in Brittany €9,000 for “undeclared labour” after a customer returned some empty glasses to the bar.

For customers at the Mamm-Kounifl concert-café in Locmiquélic, carrying drinks trays and used glasses back to the bar was a polite tradition.
But for social security agency URSAFF, it was also an infringement of labour laws because customers were acting like waiters, French local newspaper Le Télégramme reported.
“Around half-past midnight, a customer returned a drinks tray. She passed by the bar to go to the toilets. That was when it all kicked off. My husband was pinned against the glass by a man. A woman leapt on me, showing her ID card and that’s when I realised it was a URSSAF check. They told me I had been caught using undeclared labour,” owner Markya Le Floch told Le Télégramme.
“It is a scam. We haven’t committed any wrong doing,” she added.

OH La, La, If you want to put a rival bar out of business in France all you have to do is return your empties to the bar a few times.:p

What a crazy law.

UCDVet

Whoa? Is there any such law in Ireland?

There is a local pizza shop I hit up for lunch. Seems like everyone just leaves their mess on the table when they leave and the poor guy behind the register (only one working) has to try and run out and clean tables in between taking orders.

When I leave, I always wipe down my table putting all the mess into the pizza box then walk it up to the counter. the register guy is nice enough, knows my order and always gives me a friendly hello....I'd hate to think I'm breaking the law.

This would also explain the mess at McDonalds!

There's many pubs I've encountered here where the bars will give free pints to patrons that would go around picking up empties and bringing them to the bar.

GLaDOS

If true, that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

I'd often do it at bars, fast food places etc. It's just being polite imo.

pebbles21

Deleted User wrote: »

There's many pubs I've encountered here where the bars will give free pints to patrons that would go around picking up empties and bringing them to the bar.

That would usually be the local alco, looking for free beer when he's spent every cent he has, in there already!

Czarcasm

'Muri... Ohh France?

Zut alors! :eek:

cabledude

The French are a lovely, but strange, group of people.

LETHAL LADY

Sacre bleu! Them crazy French folks.

AerynSun

Deleted User wrote: »

There's many pubs I've encountered here where the bars will give free pints to patrons that would go around picking up empties and bringing them to the bar.

Ah but you see, zat is not free pints, mon ami! Zat is undeclared payment for ze undeclared labour! Zat is not a pub at all, eet ees a money laundry!!

Birneybau

'rance.

Hmm, don't think that works...

Karl Stein

When ze seagulls folleau ze trawleur eet iz becauese zey think zat sardines will be thruen inteau ze sea.

NuckingFacker

This is one reason why I never return my glasses to the bar when I'm in france. That and the whole "not being in france much" thing.

Sam Kade

ScienceNerd wrote: »

If true, that's one of the most stupid things I've ever heard.

I'd often do it at bars, fast food places etc. It's just being polite imo.

Fixed

seamus

It's a little bit sensationalist. The law they were fined under clearly is designed to protect slave labourers, but obviously the scope of it has gone a bit too far; probably due to union influence, which is all-pervasive in France. If this was actually designed to protect slave labourers, the fine would be far higher than €9k. In this case the intention may be to prevent companies offering barter-style agreements, e.g. "Collect your glasses and get 20% off your drinks". Which an establishment should be permitted to do, but unions would hate it, and revenue would hate it a bit too.

The reason it's sensationalist is because they've been fined under the powers of the statutory body, and not by a court. I imagine when it's challenged in court, common sense will prevail.

Lando Griffin

Lets all stop bying and drinking French wine to show our support to that French pub.

NuckingFacker

Ze French, a great burnch ouef lards.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

It's a little bit sensationalist. The law they were fined under clearly is designed to protect slave labourers, but obviously the scope of it has gone a bit too far; probably due to union influence, which is all-pervasive in France. If this was actually designed to protect slave labourers, the fine would be far higher than €9k. In this case the intention may be to prevent companies offering barter-style agreements, e.g. "Collect your glasses and get 20% off your drinks". Which an establishment should be permitted to do, but unions would hate it, and revenue would hate it a bit too.

The reason it's sensationalist is because they've been fined under the powers of the statutory body, and not by a court. I imagine when it's challenged in court, common sense will prevail.

Reading further down the article, the owners do intend to challenge the "fine".

doolox

In theory the French work 32 hours a week, but in practice there are a lot of workplaces where more tasks are given out to each worker which are impossible to do in 32 hours nd the workers end up having to work extra hours on the quiet in order to keep their jobs.

There are several restrictions on opening hours, service levels etc in retail that would not be tolerated in Ireland but were common here years ago, half day one day a week, Sunday compulsory closing etc.

Boombastic

That's two things i agree with the french about, this and taxing people caught drug dealing, fair play to them. We're europeans now and the sooner civilised table service is standard here, the happier i'll be.

Sky King

Boombastic wrote: »

We're europeans now and the sooner civilised table service is standard here, the happier i'll be.

Having been to the continent a fair bit in the last year or so - I would much prefer the status quo in Ireland. It's nice to see waiting staff with a smile and a friendly word here at home as opposed to some rude c*nt on 1.50 an hour rolling their eyes and acting like they are doing you a favour by getting your order.

Boombastic

Sky King wrote: »

Having been to the continent a fair bit in the last year or so - I would much prefer the status quo in Ireland. It's nice to see waiting staff with a smile and a friendly word here at home as opposed to some rude c*nt on 1.50 an hour rolling their eyes and acting like they are doing you a favour by getting your order.

Either you or me are going to the wrong places It's not the bar staff, I usually find them friendly if it's early/quiet but later on it's the shoving and pushing on the customer side of the bar that irks me

P. Breathnach

Deleted User wrote: »

Reading further down the article, the owners do intend to challenge the "fine".

Reading elsewhere, the URSSAF (the social security agency involved) intend to challenge the owner's version of events.

I became suspicious when I read the owner's claims "My husband was pinned against the glass by a man. A woman leapt on me, showing her ID card and that’s when I realised it was a URSSAF check." It seemed a bit melodramatic.

Ouest-France is a daily newspaper that has a large circulation in the area. Its report is to be found at http://www.ouest-france.fr/controle-urssaf-dans-un-bar-client-serviable-ou-travail-dissimule-1805930. [Google translate will give those without French a crude but serviceable translation.] The gist of the URSSAF's response is that they observed an individual working throughout the evening, not simply returning one tray to the bar.

Not as colourful a story. People working "off the books" give a business an unfair advantage over its competitors. That's the nub.

Paramite Pie

Boombastic wrote: »

That's two things i agree with the french about, this and taxing people caught drug dealing, fair play to them. We're europeans now and the sooner civilised table service is standard here, the happier i'll be.

Table service? Are you that lazy that you can't walk to the feckin' bar and back??

Boombastic

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Table service? Are you that lazy that you can't walk to the feckin' bar and back??

Were you too lazy to read the post I made after the one you quoted? It reveals all



:pac:

NuckingFacker

Sounds like a good job those inspectors have. "I sat in ze strip club for three consecutive evenings, collecting evidence, zen, on day four I pounced and apprehended the fallen madonna wiz the big boobies, who was doing ze nixer"

catallus

Why are french omelettes always so small????








Because one egg is un oeuf!

humbert

It's an absurd example but I can see where they're coming from.

I recall this becoming common in Ireland and even as a kid feeling like the restaurateurs were pulling a fast one. Instead of hiring a waitress/waiter they were encouraging customers to clean up after themselves under the threat of looking like assholes if they left a mess for the, now reduced, staff to clean up. Much like tipping.

Sh1tbag OToole

in France you probably need a qualification to bring glass to the bar. you need to know the dangers of carrying glass like.