How can I help my sister through this? Mod warning Post #16

LegacyUser

Please bear with me on this, it is still very fresh and I am finding it hard to articulate everything. The parties involved are my 18 year old sister who I will refer to as C, my 25 year old sister who I will call L, and our parents. I am the eldest, I am 26. I must clarify that I have heard the below information from L.

C started University in September of this year. She was raped on Wednesday night. She was out with her friends and had a fair amount to drink, and went back to the Uni residence with a lad she knew from her course. She did not get blackout drunk, or was unable to stand etc. She remembers the whole night. She gave him a handjob and a blowjob, she did not consent to sex but he did it anyway. So. She was raped, on campus grounds. He did not use a condom. She did not tell L until a few days later, I think due to shock. C said not to tell anyone but L had to tell me, to know what to do. C knows that I know now.

L and myself have decided that we cannot tell our parents for the time being. We need to take care of this situation by ourselves for the moment. Our parents have both had very difficult health situations in the past year and both myself and L are worried that this will be too much for them. I think our Mother in particular would not be able to cope with this, so it is for the best at the moment that myself and L deal with it. Our mother would definitely blame her for getting herself into that situation, and obviously that would be horrendous for C to hear. So I am trying to avoid that for as long as possible. They are quite conservative, especially when it comes to women and sex.

L and myself have rang the Rape Crisis centre and we are going to follow their advice and bring her to the Gardai tomorrow for an examination and to give a statement.

I suppose I am posting because I want to know how to talk to her about what happened without victim blaming. I am so worried that she will take something I say as me blaming her for the situation, which is not the case at all.

This next part is hard to articulate without sounding like a bitch: L and I both feel that C is behaving quite dangerously. This is not the first time that C has gone off with a boy she doesn't know well on a night out. She can't remember what happened the first time, she didn't even know if they had had sex. We both feel that while of course it is NOT her fault that this has happened, she needs to be more aware of her surroundings and just how ****TY people can be. She is too trusting and naive, and cannot allow herself to be cornered, so to speak. I am sorry if I am coming across as victim blaming or slut shaming, I do not mean to be. I am just concerned that she is putting her health and safety in danger due to recklessness.

I am also wondering if there is anything else I can do. Myself and L are going to support her in any decision she decides to make, but we both want her to prosecute. C has already said that she doesn't want to go back to University after the Christmas break as he will be in her classes, and she will see him all the time. Unfortunately the University will be virtually un-contactable over the next two weeks but we have said that she could take the first week off 'sick' if needs be until we can communicate what happened with the University and figure out what can be done, and what she wants to do.

This is such a devastating thing to happen to her. I want to help and support her as much as I possibly can, but I want to go about it the right way.

Neyite

It is not the right time to talk about her behaviour. Really, its not.

No matter how sensitively you word it, it will come across as victim blaming. That's because, at its base level, your message to her will be "this is what your risky behaviour results in" and that's is victim blaming. Women can say no or stop at any stage with a man and a man who is not a rapist will stop. And vice versa.

Thousands of women in University go out, get hammered and end up with a person or group that they dont know and are not raped. I couldn't tell you how often I ended up on a strange sofa in some student gaff, and never got raped. Why? because the guys I encountered were not rapists.

Besides, you may find that her behaviour might change drastically as a result of this, for instance becoming practically reclusive. Hold off on the chat for now and just support her. Maybe look for guidance on how you can best support her from the Rape Crisis Centre.

Merkin

Now is not the time to remonstrate with her on any level. To do so would be victim blaming and considering what she has been though, what she needs from you right now is unwavering support and non judgmental help. Now is not the time for anything other than that.

December2012

Just focus on the rape.

Nothing else.

I don't understand why you won't tell your parents? Surely this is something for your sister to decide?

missierex

Unfortunately I have some experience on this topic.

My older sister was raped during her first year in college in Dublin about 1998/1999. It was by her then boyfriend. She never told us. She started acting strangely, and harming herself, and even dropped out of college. Still we didn't know what had caused the sudden change. She had gone from a well-grounded girl, studious, and ambitious to a shell of what she was before.

I'll never forget the morning my mother told me what had happened. I was happily stuffing my face with coco pops (only 13 years of age). I remember being in total shock, and feeling so guilty for giving my sister a hard time over taking my things and being moody. As you can imagine my parents were devastated. They took her to various counsellors but she wouldn't discuss it. Over the years she has drifted from worthless job to worthless job, from ****ty boyfriend to ****tier boyfriend, her potential, wasted.

The years have passed, and I am sad to say things are worse now than ever. She told us in February she had spent thousands of euros belonging to my parents buying crap over the internet, and drinking herself into a stupour. She assured us she would go to counselling once and for all, and try and get these issues 'sorted'. She did go for a few months, but stopped in August, and is back drinking heavily again.

We all tried to rally around her and to give her support, but the years of lies and manipulations have take their toll. My younger brother is one small incident away from not wanting to speak to her ever again (this may sound harsh, but if you had to put up with what we have put up with over the last 15 years you would understand).

I would urge you, and your sister, to encourage your younger sister to seek counselling IMMEDIATELY. I would also urge you to tell your parents. This girl needs as much love and support as she can get. Do not leave all this fester, the sooner it's tackled the better. Believe me I know. Not only has the rape ruined my sisters' life, but it has ruined all of my familys' lives.

Plek Trum

Give your sister reassurance, support and love, that is all for now. The Rape Crisis Centre are experts in this and will guide and assist you in contacting the Gardaí and University. Absolutely, you are doing the right thing by notifying both.

The Centre also offer support to those related to people affected by abuse. They will help you and your sister 'L' get your heads around this and also offer advice to you both on the best route to take - avail of this, it will be invaluable. Ask them perhaps for their professional opinion about telling / not telling your parents. They are the ones best qualified to advise about same. Wishing you all the very best, you'll get through this together. x

Iggy154

I would think prosecuting is very risky. A lot of rape prosecutions fail. She was seen voluntarily going with the guy. She voluntarily involved herself in sexual activities. A jury will have doubts that she did not consent to sex. If in doubt they will acquit. Your sister did not take adequate precautions and has paid the price. It is not her fault but she has to make the best of the situation.

Plek Trum

Iggy154 wrote: »

I would think prosecuting is very risky. A lot of rape prosecutions fail. She was seen voluntarily going with the guy. She voluntarily involved herself in sexual activities. A jury will have doubts that she did not consent to sex. If in doubt they will acquit. Your sister did not take adequate precautions and has paid the price. It is not her fault but she has to make the best of the situation.

Please ignore the absolute sh1te above - jesus :mad: Obviously written by somebody with no experience in this area. Stay with advice and guidance from the professionals and please ignore posts like the above. There is no such thing as having "to make the best of the situation".

iusedtoknow

She needs to talk to the rape crisis center, and tell your parents. They need to know as much as anyone else, to give her support. It isn't that you or your other sister are less able to support her in this (nor are you more able), however think of how bad it will be in 6 months telling them, they will be hurt they they weren't there to support their child during this.

As for your sisters behavior, yes she was drunk but drunkeness is not consent. I got pretty drunk in college and got into some hairy situations, but I never once raped anyone. Why? Because I'm not a rapist. The guy, whether or not they had done certain deeds raped her if she didn't consent to full sex.

She needs to pursue this, not only for her but for the woman that comes after her (and so on)

Mayboy

Iggy154 wrote: »

I would think prosecuting is very risky. A lot of rape prosecutions fail. She was seen voluntarily going with the guy. She voluntarily involved herself in sexual activities. A jury will have doubts that she did not consent to sex. If in doubt they will acquit. Your sister did not take adequate precautions and has paid the price. It is not her fault but she has to make the best of the situation.

I cannot believe anyone would post the above, apart from it offering zero assistance whatsoever it also serves to re-enforce some of the myths around sexual violence...so what if she went with him 'voluntarily'? Is that not her right as a person? Of course she 'voluntarily' involved herself in sexual activities - but at some point her male companion did not listen or respect her wishes. Iggy154 you have no idea what a jury will think as you are not on a jury nor do we know the full detail of this case.:mad:

OP I want to wish you and your family all the best in this difficult time - there are thousands of people who survive this and who come through, it's deeply distressing but it is possible to go foorward from this. The experts here are the rape crisis centre and counsellors or psychotherapsists who have significant experience in helping people survive this kind of event. Right now you have to consider your family, your sister, the emotional aspect of this and the legal aspect also - it will seem hugely terrifying to work your way through this but I assure you that there are people who will help and there will be closure at some point. I wish you the best.

X

Queen-Mise

1800 778888 is the number of the 24 hour Dublin Rape Crisis Centre Counselling Line. Ring and have a chat with them. Give the number to your sister - she can ring for a chat if that is all she wants.

Big Bag of Chips

Posters are asked to report any post they have an issue with, rather than dragging a thread off topic by arguing with another poster.

Iggy154, please read our Charter before posting in Personal Issues again. Your post adds nothing to the thread and offers little in the way of advice that was looked for by the OP. She has spoken to someone at the Rape Crisis Centre who has advised them to go to the Gardaí, and she has said they are going to take that advice. She asked for advice on how to support and talk to their sister without going down the route of blaming her for what happened beforehand. If you have nothing to add on that point, please don't post.

If you have any issue with a moderator instruction, please address it using the PM facility.

cheesefiend

OP, I would urge you to involve your sister in any and all decisions you make regarding this issue. In that act, the rapist took all control your sister had over her own body away from her. She should be allowed to feel in control of this situation, if you think your parents should know, I would encourage you to talk to her about this possibility, present it as an option, outline the benefits, but let her know that it is her choice!

Feeling like you are not in control of your own life can lead to a lot of problems down the line. This is the best help you can give her, empowering her to help herself. I know it is hard to hear as you want to be able to fix things for her, but she will need to fix herself. You can help her by letting her know you are there for her, letting her know about her options, but it is her life and she should be allowed to make her own decisions.

Ham Sambo

I would have to agree with Iggy up to a point, Yes your sister had a lot to drink, she consented to a few sexual acts with guy and then a few days later stated that she was raped by this same guy, both sides have to have a hearing, however I would suggest that you advise your sister to seek out the help and assistance of the professionals asap, because once an accusation of rape is made it can not be retracted./ Best of luck.

Little Acorn

It is up to your sister 'C' whether or not she wants to tell your parents what happened, and is not your or 'L's decision to make.

From what you have said though, I am assuming that your sister 'C' also agrees that she does not want to tell your parents seeing as she originally didn't even want you to know either until 'L' went and told you anyways.

I don't necessarily agree with posters that said you should encourage her to tell your parents. I can completely see their reasoning for suggesting she do so, to have their support and understanding etc but seeing as you said this:

Our mother would definitely blame her for getting herself into that situation, and obviously that would be horrendous for C to hear. So I am trying to avoid that for as long as possible. They are quite conservative, especially when it comes to women and sex.

.... I would be extremely hesitant to involve them.

Unfortunately not all parents are understanding and supportive, and although I would hope that your parents response would surprise all of you, and that they would end up being really supportive, at the end of the day you know your parents better than any of us here and if your sister feels that your mother would definitely blame her I would hold off on doing anything that could hinder your sister from working through this.

If she decides to tell them after counselling when she is hopefully in a stronger frame of mind then that is entirely her decision to make.

Also:

but we both want her to prosecute

,
whilst I think I would want the same in your position, it is up to your sister what she wants to do in that regard. If she wants to prosecute I would encourage her all the way but be wary of verging into the pressurising zone.

I think you and 'L' should perhaps hold back on voicing your concerns over her general behaviour. It will most likely be seen as blaming her and could make her regret ever speaking with ye about it at all.

I think you should continue being supportive of your sister and always be there whenever she wants to speak to ye about how she is feeling. I would listen to the poster who suggested that you should seek advice for yourself and 'L' aswell from the counsellors who are trained to deal with this.

I don't know how I would react in your situation. I think I would be overcome with rage at the guy in question. So for what it's worth I think you and 'L' are handling things very well so far and all you can do is to continue to try your best being supportive and being there to listen.

It would be an absolute shame if 'C' feels she has to leave college over this.I wish I could offer more advice regarding the university situation, but I am unaware of how universities deal with a situation like this. Maybe somebody with some knowledge of how colleges deal with this will post here to advise you best in that regard.

Wish you all the best and hope your sister is able to work through this with some counselling and also your help.

Big Bag of Chips

HamSambo - I was in the middle of giving you an official yellow card, warning for ignoring a Mod Instruction. But your history is clean, and I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt this one time.

The OP has been advised by the Rape Crisis Centre to bring her sister to the Gardaí, and has already decided this is what she will do. I'm sure the Gardaí will discuss everything with them at that time, and it won't be a simple walk in the park for the girl.

Final warning to ALL POSTERS: The OP has asked for advice on how to support her sister without coming across as blaming her in anyway. Stick to offering advice on that, or don't post.

Iggy154

Plek Trum wrote: »

Please ignore the absolute sh1te above - jesus :mad: Obviously written by somebody with no experience in this area. Stay with advice and guidance from the professionals and please ignore posts like the above. There is no such thing as having "to make the best of the situation".

My brother is a taxi driver. He has been called to court to give evidence in rape trials twice. He had to say in each case the couple got into a taxi and were friendly to the point of snogging in the back. In each case it was the girl who suggested to the lad that he come inside her place. Both were acquitted. He has given statements to the Guards on other occasions and never heard any more about it. That is the reality.

Big Bag of Chips

Red card for Iggy154. Don't ignore moderator instructions, and make sure you are familiar with our Charter. Next step is a ban from Personal Issues

Ham Sambo

Good God I was not judging her in any way, and if I came across as doing so I do apologies, I was merely giving an unbalanced point of view that's all