mineral deficiency

jd06

Hi all, got my cows blood tested last week for mineral deficiency. I as told that it would show it up
But my vet said it wouldn't give a clear indication, and I would have to do tests on soil and silage to get the full picture.
I know plenty of fellas who give a bolus and haven't done any testing, so are they giving de Bolus Cos they think they need it.
I was disappointed to hear de blood test wouldn't do de job.

reilig

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I found that it's cheaper to give an all trace bolus than blood test an animal. 5 to 8 euro for the bolus and 70 euro for a single blood test?

I don't think extra minerals in their system will do them any harm.

jersey101

reilig wrote: »

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I found that it's cheaper to give an all trace bolus than blood test an animal. 5 to 8 euro for the bolus and 70 euro for a single blood test?

I don't think extra minerals in their system will do them any harm.

right on that one i reckon. Vet told us that a little bit extra min wont do any harm. It will go back in the soil anyway

Bodacious

jd06 wrote: »

Hi all, got my cows blood tested last week for mineral deficiency. I as told that it would show it up
But my vet said it wouldn't give a clear indication, and I would have to do tests on soil and silage to get the full picture.
I know plenty of fellas who give a bolus and haven't done any testing, so are they giving de Bolus Cos they think they need it.
I was disappointed to hear de blood test wouldn't do de job.[/QUOT


where do you send your bloods to ? think enfer labs told me they do it.. do they send you out the sampling kit?

Farmer Pudsey

Other option is bag minerals cost around 7c/day you do not have to handle cows, disadvantage is that either they all need enough head space to access at same time or else you need to spread it across silage 2-3 times a day.

Do not know if I would Blood test, most nutrition experts I think advise Soil/silage analysis. If it is over the winter you are worried about it I would do forage analysis.

However at the end of the day either Bolus or bagged minerals will prevent the issue and will work out cheaper. Excess minerals are usually not an issue unless you feed to much of them ( way over the advised amount)

jd06

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Other option is bag minerals cost around 7c/day you do not have to handle cows, disadvantage is that either they all need enough head space to access at same time or else you need to spread it across silage 2-3 times a day.

Do not know if I would Blood test, most nutrition experts I think advise Soil/silage analysis. If it is over the winter you are worried about it I would do forage analysis.

However at the end of the day either Bolus or bagged minerals will prevent the issue and will work out cheaper. Excess minerals are usually not an issue unless you feed to much of them ( way over the advised amount)

Got my blood tests back today
The cows are very low in copper. Has anyone any experience of this?
Or what's de handiest way of getting copper into them?? Thanks

bbam

jd06 wrote: »

Got my blood tests back today
The cows are very low in copper. Has anyone any experience of this?
Or what's de handiest way of getting copper into them?? Thanks

Bolus will cover them for 6 months..
Maoyhealthcare have a good range, ~ €6 a head for six months.

We've used their stuff before and it was effective...

If your cows are in you can get tablets from them to suspend in the drinkers, leeches copper into the water, all cattle drink during the day so you know their getting their share.. We found these very handy !!

hugo29

mayo healthcare also do a good range of blocks which can be suspended on the dividing gates, all cattle can then lick same as required

Brown Podzol

jd06 wrote: »

Hi all, got my cows blood tested last week for mineral deficiency. I as told that it would show it up
But my vet said it wouldn't give a clear indication, and I would have to do tests on soil and silage to get the full picture.
I know plenty of fellas who give a bolus and haven't done any testing, so are they giving de Bolus Cos they think they need it.
I was disappointed to hear de blood test wouldn't do de job.

I had a mineral deficiency problem years ago selenium mostly along with bit. E. We tested the bloods, soil and herbage over couple of years and got a bespoke mineral made up. I have used this every year since and no problems. The mineral is actually cheaper than most of the off the shelf.

ferryman35

If your cows are low on Copper you may well find that the hair on their faces and backs is turning brown - 'singed' looking. Seaweed meal is a great way of building up their all their minerals - add some to their regular feed and you will see a noticeable improvement quite quickly. A copper bolus would sort your immediate problem quite fast. It's a common enough problem after the weather in 2012

blue5000

OP copper can be locked up by high molybdenum or sulphur in soil, do you know if either of these are part of the copper problem?

Copper bolus will work, but if giving it to cows they need to get it about 3 months before they go in calf because high levels of copper can be toxic to foetus in early stages of pregnancy. Also copper is toxic to sheep.

Bizzum

It was my understanding that the bolus was slow release and slow acting but lasted over time. If you wanted a quicker hit the copper injection was the job. I know if we had a few we thought needed copper badly, we'd inject and bolus. Can the copper injection still be got?

Farrell

Bizzum wrote: »

It was my understanding that the bolus was slow release and slow acting but lasted over time. If you wanted a quicker hit the copper injection was the job. I know if we had a few we thought needed copper badly, we'd inject and bolus. Can the copper injection still be got?

Yes, got it last year

ganmo

You can also drench with dissolved copper sulphate(bluestone)

jd06

blue5000 wrote: »

OP copper can be locked up by high molybdenum or sulphur in soil, do you know if either of these are part of the copper problem?

Copper bolus will work, but if giving it to cows they need to get it about 3 months before they go in calf because high levels of copper can be toxic to foetus in early stages of pregnancy. Also copper is toxic to sheep.

not sure why de copper isnt there
my vet recommended de injection, he said get a good deep needle into the muscle, if not the copper can leave lumps.? anyone any exp of using this method

Bizzum

jd06 wrote: »

not sure why de copper isnt there
my vet recommended de injection, he said get a good deep needle into the muscle, if not the copper can leave lumps.? anyone any exp of using this method

Yeah, we would have used the injection, and I've seen lumps come up after it. Like your vet said a long needle and rub it well in, you won't have a bother.

longgonesilver

Yes injected a few years ago. Products might be different now but it came in disposable syringes and they were very stiff. Heating in hot water helped. Inject deep in the muscle on the neck' on the far side from where your vet does the test.

TippNorth

Has there been any research/study done to compare the weight gain of cattle with and without minerals. For example even groups of cattle wintered on identical diets with one group getting minerals and one group not? And see do minerals increase thrive etc?

ganmo

if they are deficient they will benefit from a supplement.
http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/trace-element-deficiency-in-cattle.aspx

munkus

jd06 wrote: »

not sure why de copper isnt there
my vet recommended de injection, he said get a good deep needle into the muscle, if not the copper can leave lumps.? anyone any exp of using this method

Injection is your only man. Deep into the neck, don't put it anywhere else.

MFdaveIreland

Just a note here, is iodine related to coat heaalth as well ? Or just copper

jd06

munkus wrote: »

Injection is your only man. Deep into the neck, don't put it anywhere else.

Hi munkus, why only in de neck. I usually inject muscle at de front of de tail

munkus

jd06 wrote: »

Hi munkus, why only in de neck. I usually inject muscle at de front of de tail

Lower value meat of the neck I believe, in case of any lumps at slaughter.

delaval

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Other option is bag minerals cost around 7c/day you do not have to handle cows, disadvantage is that either they all need enough head space to access at same time or else you need to spread it across silage 2-3 times a day.

Do not know if I would Blood test, most nutrition experts I think advise Soil/silage analysis. If it is over the winter you are worried about it I would do forage analysis.

However at the end of the day either Bolus or bagged minerals will prevent the issue and will work out cheaper. Excess minerals are usually not an issue unless you feed to much of them ( way over the advised amount)

We feed per calver minerals adlib. When calculated at end of season correct amount used. That's of course no guarantee that each cow got the right amount.

We wouldn't feed on Sunday and they will go through a fair bit till afternoon Monday and them back to normal. Doing for years no calving problems or retained after births.

mikeoh

blue5000 wrote: »

OP copper can be locked up by high molybdenum ,..................................................................my soil samples showed this is there anyway of "unlocking" the copper.....would I be right in thinking the copper /minerals are there just cannot be absorbed

ganmo

mikeoh wrote: »

blue5000 wrote: »

OP copper can be locked up by high molybdenum ,..................................................................my soil samples showed this is there anyway of "unlocking" the copper.....would I be right in thinking the copper /minerals are there just cannot be absorbed

There's no way of releasing the copper after been 'locked up'. Just supplement with copper above the 'locking' ability of the Mo.
Check the levels of sulfur in the diet too, it works with Mo to lock up copper

poor farmer

delaval wrote: »

We feed per calver minerals adlib. When calculated at end of season correct amount used. That's of course no guarantee that each cow got the right amount.

We wouldn't feed on Sunday and they will go through a fair bit till afternoon Monday and them back to normal. Doing for years no calving problems or retained after births.

Are you using powder minerals ,just wondering what you mean by ad lib minerals

jd06

got all guard mineral bolus yesterday from my vet, there supposed to be high in copper which I am low in, there supposed to last 6 months, I never bloused before any handy tips

Galinator

I recommend mineral drenching ensure every animals getting required dosage, bit of hassle but less wasted money!!

delaval

poor farmer wrote: »

Are you using powder minerals ,just wondering what you mean by ad lib minerals

Yes, powder

Brown Podzol

delaval wrote: »

We feed per calver minerals adlib. When calculated at end of season correct amount used. That's of course no guarantee that each cow got the right amount.

We wouldn't feed on Sunday and they will go through a fair bit till afternoon Monday and them back to normal. Doing for years no calving problems or retained after births.

Used to do this years ago but stopped when we were told to sprinkle on the silage. Too much minerals can be toxic and it was said that the mineral co.s were adding sweeteners to improve the intake. However along with yourself,delaval, I have come across a number of lads offering adlib lately and seem to be getting good results. Does intake amount to the recommended 100grms? Do you buy off the shelf or get a special made up?

delaval

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Used to do this years ago but stopped when we were told to sprinkle on the silage. Too much minerals can be toxic and it was said that the mineral co.s were adding sweeteners to improve the intake. However along with yourself,delaval, I have come across a number of lads offering adlib lately and seem to be getting good results. Does intake amount to the recommended 100grms? Do you buy off the shelf or get a special made up?

It's an off shelf mix with added Mg as we are low here. It works out at 100gms but some may get more than others but never saw a sideaffect

Sami23

delaval wrote: »

We feed per calver minerals adlib. When calculated at end of season correct amount used. That's of course no guarantee that each cow got the right amount.

We wouldn't feed on Sunday and they will go through a fair bit till afternoon Monday and them back to normal. Doing for years no calving problems or retained after births.

How do you feed the powder adlib, it is just left in a bucket in passageway near feeding barriers Thanks

delaval

Sami23 wrote: »

How do you feed the powder adlib, it is just left in a bucket in passageway near feeding barriers Thanks

Meal trough in each shed and check daily topup when required

onyerbikepat

jd06 wrote: »

not sure why de copper isnt there
my vet recommended de injection, he said get a good deep needle into the muscle, if not the copper can leave lumps.? anyone any exp of using this method

I do it every year. Make sure to pull the skin to one side and go in deep into the muscle in the neck. Use a 16G x 1" needle.

F.D

Galinator wrote: »

I recommend mineral drenching ensure every animals getting required dosage, bit of hassle but less wasted money!!

How expensive is it per animal, and would you only do it once per year?

Sami23

Originally Posted by Galinator
I recommend mineral drenching ensure every animals getting required dosage, bit of hassle but less wasted money!!

F.D wrote: »

How expensive is it per animal, and would you only do it once per year?

Also, what drench do you use ?

Farrell

Sami23 wrote: »

Originally Posted by Galinator
I recommend mineral drenching ensure every animals getting required dosage, bit of hassle but less wasted money!!




Also, what drench do you use ?

There's headstart - Osmonds, grow a drop - Frank Ryan, also grovite - agridirect.
Then you have cobalt B12 & copper too

munkus

Sami23 wrote: »

Originally Posted by Galinator
I recommend mineral drenching ensure every animals getting required dosage, bit of hassle but less wasted money!!




Also, what drench do you use ?

I've never felt that enough copper is delivered in the drenched. Use grovite here but always inject for copper, often every animal twice a year.

razor8

Just reading through this old thread. Does anyone know what companies test grass for mineral deficiencies and a rough cost?

milkprofit

razor8 wrote: »

Just reading through this old thread. Does anyone know what companies test grass for mineral deficiencies and a rough cost?

IAS
FBA

ganmo

70+ quid

razor8

Thought it would be worse, thanks

Count Mondego

+ 1 for IAS. Only sent them soil samples but they give good time in talking through the results which is probably the most important factor in choosing a company for soil/herbage analysis.