Cars used for JFK visit

GL scrappy

Since the 50th anniversary had the JFK visit in the news lately, I've been trying to find out a bit about the cars used at the time.

Any photos I've found depicting cars show that some American cars were used. Would these have been Irish government cars? bought especially for the occasion? or would they have been common enough here anyway?
I did find an interesting story about what the Cadillac was used for years later.http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jfks-1963visit-cadillac-used-to-hide-drugs-25906046.html





What sparked my interest in this topic was a story I was told growing up about a Mercedes my Da owned in the 60s, which had been used to transport JFK when he was in Ireland. I never paid much attention to it but recently decided to enquire further. My Da can be sketchy enough on the details so I can't be sure on the exact model of Merc or how many cylinders it had but seemingly it had written on the sunvisor "This car was used to transport President Kennedy", or words to that effect.

Here's a couple of pics I was able to dig out, some of you might be able to tell me more about it from the details;




Hopefully some of you can offer more information about the cars used, about this model of Merc or about cars that would have been used by the government or high ranking Gardai at the time.

Capri

Ford Consul 315 patrol cars / Zodiac Special branch / Austin Princess limos and Dev's ZJ5000 Roller

http://www.bridgesofdublin.ie/gallery/view/collections/dublin-city-council/jfk-oconnell-bridge-1963

carchaeologist

Going by the registration that Merc would have been brand new at the time. To the best of my knowledge all the main American cars used by Kennedy were specially brought over by the secret service, they all have American registrations.

kev1.3s

carchaeologist wrote: »

Going by the registration that Merc would have been brand new at the time. To the best of my knowledge all the main American cars used by Kennedy were specially brought over by the secret service, they all have American registrations.

So if the secret service brought over its own fleet of vehicles what is the likelihood of kennedy being in that Merc?

Capri

kev1.3s wrote: »

So if the secret service brought over its own fleet of vehicles what is the likelihood of kennedy being in that Merc?

Zero

carchaeologist

kev1.3s wrote: »

So if the secret service brought over its own fleet of vehicles what is the likelihood of kennedy being in that Merc?

I'd be very surprised if he was. When Obama was here he used all his own cars, ye might remember where the presidential limo got stuck on a ramp...

elperello

GL,
The man sitting beside JFK in the limo in your original post is Frank Aitken TD Minister for External Affairs. He had a large role in organising the visit and was with JFK almost all the time. He would have had a state car exactly like the one your Dad owned. It was registered in November/December 1962 so could well have been his car. It's not entirely beyond the imagination to think that he might have given a short lift to JFK outside of the official engagements. JFK was staying at the US Ambassador's Residence just a short hop from the Aras.

rovoagho

carchaeologist wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if he was. When Obama was here he used all his own cars, ye might remember where the presidential limo got stuck on a ramp...

Security is a lot tighter now than it was then. Kennedy wouldn't have given his inauguration speech from behind a bulletproof screen, for example. Or made phone calls inside a faraday cage.

I love the secret service guys in the brown trench coats, presumably to hide the big guns. Brown!

Capri

Re US registrations on Presidential limos - when Clinton was here the limo got an Irish plate for some quare reason, bit like the Queen's Range Rover

carchaeologist

rovoagho wrote: »

Security is a lot tighter now than it was then..

True enough. The secret service weren't much cop in Dallas shortly after..

Capri

Originally Posted by rovoagho
Security is a lot tighter now than it was then..

Not so sure - what about the Beast getting stuck on the Embassy ramp, and the Sign language chap at Mandela's funeral :rolleyes:

Mac 3

There was archive footage in that Ryan Tubridy JFK documentary featuring the famous Lincoln Continental driving through the Phoenix park. It was also shown arriving at the quay in Wexford.

rovoagho

Capri wrote: »

Not so sure - what about the Beast getting stuck on the Embassy ramp, and the Sign language chap at Mandela's funeral :rolleyes:

The Beast is just one of those things, it demonstrated ill-preparedness, but not a security lapse. The signing guy was just bizarre though, you have me there.

mattroche

GL, the car your father had was very likely a ministerial car, I had one them about 1989, P or RZD 961. They were bought to replace the then ministerial Fords.I understood from a retired Garda that it was the late Niel Blaneys Ministerial car. The late Jack Lynch refused to have one, insisting on keeping his Cork assembled Ford. They were Mercedes 220SE. The only other 220SE I knew of in the mid 60s was Ml. Coppengar ( BIM 777 ) & Eddie Sullivan, both Royal Showband fame. I bought mine in London, it had been parked outside Wormwood Scrubs for years, it was owned by a prison officer. I used it for a few weddings here, and sold it to a collector, who still has it, but I believe it is in fairly poor condition now. They were a lovely car. I also had a lovely maroon one in London in 1976, bought it from a dealer for just £135, & used it for mini-cabbing for several years, it made some money. There are still the odd one offered for sale but they are usually in poor condition. If you are interested in getting one, keep a eye on E.Bay, U.K.

carchaeologist

Ex Pheonix park Garda Mercs often got chopped into Hearses too.

kev1.3s

Capri wrote: »

Re US registrations on Presidential limos - when Clinton was here the limo got an Irish plate for some quare reason, bit like the Queen's Range Rover

I wonder how much they shafted him for VRT?

elperello

Well there's a coincidence.
Even the same spotlights!

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mercedes-vintage-used-car-parts/3266025

68deville

elperello wrote: »

Well there's a coincidence.
Even the same spotlights!

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mercedes-vintage-used-car-parts/3266025

I know where a powder blue 220 with an old Wexford reg is sitting up
Will try get a pic over the christmas

Silvera

Capri wrote: »

Re US registrations on Presidential limos - when Clinton was here the limo got an Irish plate for some quare reason, bit like the Queen's Range Rover

Are you referring to the limo with the 'ZS' plate used in his convoy when visiting Ireland in the mid-1990's??

Capri

Silvera wrote: »

Are you referring to the limo with the 'ZS' plate used in his convoy when visiting Ireland in the mid-1990's??

Can't find exact photo but AFIR it was Clinton's limo and it had Irish plates on it for some reason - don't think they were ZS tho'

Silvera

Capri wrote: »

Can't find exact photo but AFIR it was Clinton's limo and it had Irish plates on it for some reason - don't think they were ZS tho'

There was definitely a 'ZS' registered limo in his convoy. I equired about it an the official answer is that is must have been a hired (local) limo.

elperello

Meanwhile back at the Aras..........

GL,

I did a bit of detective work on the archive footage of the visit and came up with this link -

http://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/1722-john-f-kennedy/392134-president-kennedy-arrives-at-ras-an-uachtarin/

JFK arrives at the Aras in the limo with Dev. It is pouring rain and they are both wearing raincoats and hats. As the cars sweep up to the front door they pass a line of parked cars. The second and third cars from the door are black Mercs. Is one of them LZD 316?
I guess we will never know but maybe when JFK came out to go across the road to the Ambassador's Residence he got a lift in the Merc because the seats in the open cars would have been wet. One surprised Garda driver hands over his car to a SS driver and later when he gets it back records the moment on the sun-visor. Far fetched? Probably, but it makes a nice bit of speculation. Now if you only had the car!

Happy Christmas.

ps. the link is well worth viewing, complete with commentary by Michael O'Hehir.

carchaeologist

Some interesting reading here on JFKs assassination limo, its later use, and subsequent cars.
http://gizmodo.com/amazingly-jfks-limo-was-still-used-more-than-a-decade-1469335009

GL scrappy

Some great contributions, thanks.

From what other info I've been able to coax out of the oul fella, He bought the Merc at the Garda auctions in the Pheonix Park, roughly 1967 but can't be sure exactly when. He had gotten a tip-off from a superintendent he knew about a well minded, low mileage car so he had the reg and knew exactly which car to buy.
He has great praise for how modern a car it was at the time and how luxurious it was compared to most other cars on the road. He got plenty of use out of it anyway, "it went round the clock 3 times" (5 digit odometer?). The engine finally gave up one day and he traded it in for a slightly newer model to a man named Fields (Fildes?) in Summerhill, Co. Meath.

I suppose there's a good chance the car went to scrap at that stage. My Da regrets not having kept the sunvisor but at the time it would have been sinful to remove it from the car.

elperello

GL,
I took a special interest in this thread because in the late 60's a car dealer pal of my dads bought a Merc like that and it was Frank Aitkens car. I remember being brought out of the pub to see it and being allowed to sit in it. It now seems that it was probably a later car than LZD 316 but for a while there I enjoyed speculating that I might have been in a car that JFK was in!

Happy New Year

ps. the man your dad traded in to may have been Ken Fildes, whose garage is in Clonsilla, a legend of Irish

motorsporthttps://www.google.ie/search?q=ken+fildes+racing&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oR7AUpGRIIfIhAfIq4D4Dw&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=673



but that's a whole new thread!

elperello

Sorry I messed up the link

https://www.google.ie/search?q=ken+fildes+racing&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oR7AUpGRIIfIhAfIq4D4Dw&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=673

B2AUDI80

some pics that popped up on f/book recently, sorry if they are re posts








and a bit of a drift on the mercedes thing, seen this pic recently on flickr , caught my eye as id imagine the merc wouldnt have been a massive seller back possibly

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88051129@N00/5569736330/in/photostream/

MercMad

I'd say it's possible JFK was it that Merc, most likely a 220S Fintail. The Government had a fleet of them, all similar and most ended up as taxis afterwards. I believe Des Cullen bought a lot of them, I have seen a photo on the bet where he has them lined up.

kev1.3s

@B2AUDI80 thanks for that photo stream link, spent most of the day on it and even found a couple of pics of my home town.

Capri

B2AUDI80 wrote: »

some pics that popped up on f/book recently, sorry if they are re posts








and a bit of a drift on the mercedes thing, seen this pic recently on flickr , caught my eye as id imagine the merc wouldnt have been a massive seller back possibly

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88051129@N00/5569736330/in/photostream/

Pic1 - Coming from Dublin City Hall turning left onto Ormonde Qy Upr towards the Arás

Pic 2 - Passing the Four Courts

Pic 3 - Coming down from Nth Frederick St by Parnell Sq to O'Connell St

Not that it would have mattered but I think the traffic on the Quays flowed the opposite way in those days.