Cannot bleed radiator

CARROWKILLEN

Hi Folks,

I have 2 quinn round top radiators that I cannot bleed.

For some reason the valve on the rads has been rounded off.

If I was to take the rad off the wall and get a long nose plier would I be able to screw the valve off and get a replacement valve?

Also I have a rad that I have to keep bleeing every 3 days, what would be the cause of this letting in air?

The system I have is an open system

Thank you:)

Dtp1979

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I have 2 quinn round top radiators that I cannot bleed.

For some reason the valve on the rads has been rounded off.

If I was to take the rad off the wall and get a long nose plier would I be able to screw the valve off and get a replacement valve?

Also I have a rad that I have to keep bleeing every 3 days, what would be the cause of this letting in air?

The system I have is an open system

Thank you:)

Frequent air in the system usually means you've a leak somewhere. Go up to the small tank in your attic. Look at the ballcock. Is it dripping?? If yes then you've a leak. As for the rad vents.... Only one way to find out. Would be very hard with any kind of pliers.

scudo2

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I have 2 quinn round top radiators that I cannot bleed.

For some reason the valve on the rads has been rounded off.

If I was to take the rad off the wall and get a long nose plier would I be able to screw the valve off and get a replacement valve?

Also I have a rad that I have to keep bleeing every 3 days, what would be the cause of this letting in air?

The system I have is an open system

Thank you:)

File down rad key to the square part, then file the outside edge into a dome shape. That allows key to go in further and grips what's left on square vent.

In attic check expansion pipe, the one with a bend over small tank is not pumping water back into tank as it's also a cause of air in system if it's to low.

Billy Bunting

Quinn rads did have a 10yr warranty, but with vent its more likely down to misuse so out the window. Quinn round top rads normally came with a 1/2 air vent fitting that could be removed and replaced, is the rad vent chromed ?

CARROWKILLEN

Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful.

the rad is not vent chromed.

Will try the suggestions and come back to yee on this.

CARROWKILLEN

Hi Guys,

Bleed all the radiators in the house, then went up to the attic and tied up the ballcock. The small tank was full of water and no dripping.

Went and checked the tank this evening and there was about 1-2 litres of water gone out of this.

For the life of me I cannot find out why this is happening.

Have checked everywhere and cannot find a leak

Any suggestions?

Outkast_IRE

Then the leak must be underground, you can get some leak sealers you can add to the system. These are probably worth a shot before going digging etc.

shane0007

There are many places to check first. Automatic air vents, pump valves, 3 bar safety valve termination point, etc.
Leak sealer would be a very very last resort. It can also invalidate gas boiler warranties & even if out of warranty, it can cause issues.

CARROWKILLEN

Automatic air vents, pump valves, 3 bar safety valve termination

Sorry Shane007 but where would these be located and what are there functions?

Thanks

shane0007

AAV's at the boiler & possibly in the hot press.
Pump valves either side of the pump.
3 bar safety valve at the boiler, should be terminating outside but could terminate anywhere including inside a cavity after some gobsh1te installers.

CARROWKILLEN

Thanks.

Will follow this up in the morning.

Thanks again.

shane0007

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

Thanks.

Will follow this up in the morning.

Thanks again.

Also remove all caps on both sides of your rads. Check the locking nut on them as they can also weep.

Failing that, I would drain the system, isolate the circuits as much as possible & pressure test with air to narrow down the leak & you may even hear it hissing.

Outkast_IRE

shane0007 wrote: »

Also remove all caps on both sides of your rads. Check the locking nut on them as they can also weep.

Failing that, I would drain the system, isolate the circuits as much as possible & pressure test with air to narrow down the leak & you may even hear it hissing.

I would back up the air testing, you will probably need to get someone to do it for you, but in a quiet house, you would stand a decent chance of narrowing down the area the leak is in. Have had to do it before and it can help if your lucky enough to hear it.

The only reason I jumped to underground straight away was he said he lost a few litres in a few hours, you would usually spot a leak from a nut or similar if it was that much in such a short space of time.

shane0007

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

The only reason I jumped to underground straight away was he said he lost a few litres in a few hours, you would usually spot a leak from a nut or similar if it was that much in such a short space of time.

True but there are many factors above ground that would need to be eliminated first. Often seen every rad in the house weeping & collectively could amount to a considerable loss.
A leak sealer is only good for extremely minor weeps & I personally am not a lover of them. Most manufacturers wave a flag when they have been added that reads "the boiler has nothing to do with us anymore".

I was just pointing out a sequence to follow before having to call in a professional & is only in my personal opinion.

CARROWKILLEN

shane0007AAV's at the boiler & possibly in the hot press.
Pump valves either side of the pump.
3 bar safety valve at the boiler, should be terminating outside but could terminate anywhere including inside a cavity after some gobsh1te installers.


No AAV's installed

Pump valves either side of the circulating pump are ok

3 bar safety valve is working ok

CARROWKILLEN

Any other ideas guys?

mark17j

my mother's house has a similar problem, frequent air in upstairs rads - boiling at the bottom, cold at the top, the 5 double rads downstairs are perfect though - it has been this way for years, no sign of leaks anywhere in the house that are visible. had a plumber in that fixed a leak in the attic, but problem still persists... we've given up on it.
She has all new hardwood floors put in, and isn't keen on having them ripped up to find a leak, that may not be there at all. lol

Irish Steve

Thought.

Was the system at the same temperature when you checked the level, or was it colder. If the whole system was cold when you checked the level, that may explain the level drop, as water expands when heated, and depending on the size of the system, there might not be a leak at all. If the system was cold when checked, repeat the check when the system is at operating temperature, as that's the only way to be sure

jca

mark17j wrote: »

my mother's house has a similar problem, frequent air in upstairs rads - boiling at the bottom, cold at the top, the 5 double rads downstairs are perfect though - it has been this way for years, no sign of leaks anywhere in the house that are visible. had a plumber in that fixed a leak in the attic, but problem still persists... we've given up on it.
She has all new hardwood floors put in, and isn't keen on having them ripped up to find a leak, that may not be there at all. lol

There has to be a leak somewhere, if air is getting in water must be getting out. Did you try a sealer in the system?

Froststop

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Bleed all the radiators in the house, then went up to the attic and tied up the ballcock. The small tank was full of water and no dripping.

Went and checked the tank this evening and there was about 1-2 litres of water gone out of this.

For the life of me I cannot find out why this is happening.

Was the heating on or off when you tied up the ballcock?
Was it on or off when you discovered the water level have dropped in the tank?

mark17j

jca wrote: »

There has to be a leak somewhere, if air is getting in water must be getting out. Did you try a sealer in the system?

yep, Plumber put leak sealer into the system, the Magnaclean professional is installed to keep the system clean, I think he ran it through there.
Rads were hopping upstairs for 2 weeks - after he bled them.,
but back to square 1 again. bathroom rad is first to go, then the rest soon after..
As I said before downstairs rads are perfect.. they never need to be bled.
I don't think the leak is upstairs as ceilings show no sign of damage..
must be under one of the floors downstairs but how to find out where?
I noticed if you walk heavy on Kitchen floor you can hear copper pipes rattle underneath.. would that be something?

CARROWKILLEN

Froststop wrote: »

Was the heating on or off when you tied up the ballcock?
Was it on or off when you discovered the water level have dropped in the tank?

The heating was off when I tied up the ballcock

It was also off when I discovered the water level drop

whupdedo

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

The heating was off when I tied up the ballcock

It was also off when I discovered the water level drop

You'd probably be better off getting a plumber out

CARROWKILLEN

whupdedo wrote: »

You'd probably be better off getting a plumber out

Have already done that and he does'nt know whats happening!

shane0007

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

Have already done that and he does'nt know whats happening!

Was the system drained, sectioned & pressure tested with air?

CARROWKILLEN

shane0007 wrote: »

Was the system drained, sectioned & pressure tested with air?

No that was not done.

Plumber said it would not make a difference

shane0007

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

No that was not done.

Plumber said it would not make a difference

Well his way doesn't seem to be making any difference. Probably more like he doesn't have a compressor.

Froststop

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

No that was not done.

Plumber said it would not make a difference

It would clarify that you have a leak, and if your lucky you might hear the air leaking if you walk around the house when the test is up.

jca

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

No that was not done.

Plumber said it would not make a difference

Not much of a plumber.

rightjob!

CARROWKILLEN wrote: »

No that was not done.

Plumber said it would not make a difference

would definately make a difference.if the sytem can be split you can tell if its up stairs or downstairs ect
if you pump it up with air you might be lucky and be able to hear the leak hissing.
its a much better job than throwing in leak sealers