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Casement Park upgrade gets planning permission

  • 19-12-2013 11:33am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 33,504 ✭✭✭✭ The_Kew_Tour
    Registered User


    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/antrim/casement-park-upgrade-gets-planning-approval-29852555.html
    Plans for a new 38,000-seater GAA stadium in Belfast were given the go-ahead today.

    Almost 1,000 residents living near Casement Park, Andersonstown, objected, but Northern Ireland Environment Minister Mark H Durkan has granted planning permission.
    The Stormont executive has already pledged £110 million funding for the redevelopment of three sports stadiums in the city - Ravenhill rugby ground which is due to finish next year, Casement, and Windsor Park where Linfield Football Club and Northern Ireland international soccer teams play their home matches.
    Mr Durkan said: "This is a tremendous boost for gaelic games and for sport here. Planning approval will now lead to the creation of a modern sports stadium with improved facilities and increased spectator comfort.
    "The new stadium is a high quality design which will be a recognised landmark building which will assist with the ongoing regeneration of the Andersonstown Road and boost the city of Belfast.
    "This stadium will have the potential to host cross-provincial matches usually played at Croke Park or Clones. This will boost sports tourism and the economy in the North. Jobs during the construction phase and additional jobs for the daily management are to be welcomed."
    The decision, he said, had not been an easy one. The Department received approximately 984 objections and a petition of objection with 431 signatures. There were also 254 letters of support and a petition of support with 1,001 signatures.
    Mr Durkan added: "Having met with local residents, I understand their concerns about the impact of the proposal. As Environment Minister for the whole of the North, my decision cannot ignore the regional benefits that will result from the development of this stadium and how it fits with the Executive's programme for government.
    "The future management of events is key to the success of the stadium and I expect the GAA to honour their commitment to help ensure that a vibrant stadium can exist within and for the benefit of the local community and indeed all of Northern Ireland. I believe this proposal can build a better environment and a stronger economy."
    Northern Ireland Sports Minister Caral Ni Chuilin welcomed the decision. She said: "Having planning approval granted for Casement Park is the final part of the jigsaw in the regional sports stadium programme.
    "Not only is this a tremendous boost for the GAA in Ulster, the re-development of Casement will bring many benefits to the community in West Belfast through construction jobs and a catalyst for regeneration in the area around the stadium."


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,276 thinkstoomuch1
    Registered User



    Delighted for them.Have no doubt they will do a top job.Ravenhill is ahead of schedule.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭ iDave
    Registered User


    What kind of schedule of games will it have on an average year?
    Antrim home NFL & NHL. Ulster final and possibly the semis. Antrim home Ulster championship & AI Qualifiers. Ulster hurling final. Ulster club final.
    Any others? Would an NFL final ever get moved there? IRS probably if it survives. Is there a chance Antrim hurling Leinster matches will ever go up there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭ iDave
    Registered User


    The fly through video here is worth a watch

    http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=206640

    They cant be accused of not building this to the highest of standards anyway. Unlike the half arsed attempt in Cork


  • Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭ burstbuckle
    Registered User


    Nice stadium but in true Irish fashion the planners sat down & said "jeasus boys looks like we'll have a fully built stadium with 4 sides, the first in Ireland". We can't be having that,what say we leave the roof off the stand one end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭ Prop Joe
    Registered User


    iDave wrote: »
    What kind of schedule of games will it have on an average year?
    Antrim home NFL & NHL. Ulster final and possibly the semis. Antrim home Ulster championship & AI Qualifiers. Ulster hurling final. Ulster club final.
    Any others? Would an NFL final ever get moved there? IRS probably if it survives. Is there a chance Antrim hurling Leinster matches will ever go up there?

    Would like to see a few All Ireland quarters in both grades go up there,Possibly home for a U21 final or 2 if no Munster team involved.

    The GAA needs to start spreading games around the country to help local economies.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭ RoyalCelt
    Registered User


    Any updates on this lads? Haven't heard anything for a while.

    Prop Joe I'd imagine the GAA would want quarter finals in croke park for tax purposes but if there was a tie between say Monaghan and Tyrone that attracted nowhere near 38k from both counties to the match like last year then it has to be held there.

    Also why haven't they made one end a terrace? The capacity would be over 42k then and you get a lot of people that would happily pay slightly less for a standing ticket as the atmosphere standing tends to be better plus it's convenient for big groups of friends to stand beside each other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭ RoyalCelt
    Registered User


    So a residents group in may completed the first step required to stopping casement being rebuilt. They will get a full heating in September. Anybody have any insight on this and how likely the redevelopment is likely to go ahead and in what time frame?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan
    Registered User


    In this case I think the residents are right to object and the existing site is not suitable for a redevelopment on this scale. The council own a huge site on the other side of the M1, Musgrave Park, which has good access from the motorway and a train station, this is the ideal location for the stadium. Logically, there should be a land swap where the GAA get space to develop a new stadium in Musgrave Park (where the council already provide a GAA pitch) and the council can then develop multi-use community pitches on the Casement site (in the middle of a large residential area). Unfortunately logic will not come into play here and the residents will fight the project but the politicians will try to push it through (because NI soccer are getting their shiny new stadium) and the end result will be something nobody will be happy with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ ardmacha
    Registered User


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    In this case I think the residents are right to object and the existing site is not suitable for a redevelopment on this scale. The council own a huge site on the other side of the M1, Musgrave Park, which has good access from the motorway and a train station, this is the ideal location for the stadium. Logically, there should be a land swap where the GAA get space to develop a new stadium in Musgrave Park (where the council already provide a GAA pitch) and the council can then develop multi-use community pitches on the Casement site (in the middle of a large residential area). Unfortunately logic will not come into play here and the residents will fight the project but the politicians will try to push it through (because NI soccer are getting their shiny new stadium) and the end result will be something nobody will be happy with.

    While I fully agree with your point on geographic grounds, there would be huge hassle if the GAA tried to move out of the ghetto and it isn't difficult to see why the GAA was more willing face NIMBY opposition than hate opposition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭ RoyalCelt
    Registered User


    ardmacha wrote: »
    While I fully agree with your point on geographic grounds, there would be huge hassle if the GAA tried to move out of the ghetto and it isn't difficult to see why the GAA was more willing face NIMBY opposition than hate opposition.

    so they'd be moving into a protestant area? if so then it's a big no from me.

    i honestly don't think a 38k stadium is too much for belfast. plenty of houses built under croke park and then get on with their lives just fine. casement won't be half as bad as croker.

    Anyway does anyone know where the stadium stands. when do they plan on starting the works?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭ RoyalCelt
    Registered User


    So what's the latest on this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan
    Registered User


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    So what's the latest on this?

    Legal review after residents objected to the grant of planning permission. I wouldn't be surprised to see the residents win, the proposed stadium does look very big and shoehorned into the site, I don't think the site is suitable for a modern stadium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭ tanko
    Registered User


    Revised plans for the redevelopment of Casement park have been unveiled. Capacity has been reduced from 38,000 to 34,500 including a standing terrace for 8,500 spectators.
    It looks like big match days in Clones will be coming to an end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 920 Last Stop
    Registered User


    So obviously the redevelopment hasn’t gone ahead and Casement is in a very sorry state. This got me thinking.
    Casement is surrounded by residential housing and the residents clearly don’t want this going ahead.
    850m away, the Boucher playing fields are in an industrial area with more land available.
    Why don’t the GAA do a land swap and build a new stadium on Boucher fields site? They could fit 2 GAA pitches the other way on Casement site and have enough room on Boucher to fit a pitch outside the stadium.
    Would this not be a win win for everyone?
    It seems to me the GAA are compromising the stadium to fit in the site rather than building the best stadium possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 957 BloodyBill
    Registered User


    Last Stop wrote: »
    So obviously the redevelopment hasn’t gone ahead and Casement is in a very sorry state. This got me thinking.
    Casement is surrounded by residential housing and the residents clearly don’t want this going ahead.
    850m away, the Boucher playing fields are in an industrial area with more land available.
    Why don’t the GAA do a land swap and build a new stadium on Boucher fields site? They could fit 2 GAA pitches the other way on Casement site and have enough room on Boucher to fit a pitch outside the stadium.
    Would this not be a win win for everyone?
    It seems to me the GAA are compromising the stadium to fit in the site rather than building the best stadium possible.

    In my opinion no one in s council provided house should have the right to object to anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭ threeball
    Registered User


    BloodyBill wrote: »
    In my opinion no one in s council provided house should have the right to object to anything.

    They're doing us a favour. The GAA doesn't need to pi$$ away another 80 million on a white elephant in Belfast like the one they just finished in cork. Why don't they just build a nice 15k all seater up there for 15 to 20 million and forget the fantasyland rubbish. When was the last time casement was even full as it stood never mind the new iteration.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog
    Registered User


    They should have pretended that it was going to be Celtic's training ground. A lot more west Belfast people would support that than the GAA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭ Redsoxfan
    Registered User


    Cut the grass and spray the weeds and let Antrim play ball. I don't know anyone who wants to go to Belfast for an Ulster Final in July.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog
    Registered User


    I reckon it was a bit of a vanity project. SF backed it when they were in Stormont, but when they realised the extent of the opposition on various grounds they abandoned it.


    It is terrible place to go for a match and I've only been there for Dublin hurling games which had no more 1,500 at them, and still a problem getting in and out. Ballycastle is a much nicer place to go to despite the extra haul.

    Pity all the same that it should be let go rack and ruin when a much smaller spend would have made it an attractive place for the games it is likely to host. You would imagine that Antrim CB would in any event have bigger priorities given how weak the county teams are, and even the decline of clubs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    Why do they always say the population of Antrim when they have features on this or generic GAA in Belfast? Half the population would happily burn down every GAA ground and everyone in it, so it's a fairly false figure.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog
    Registered User


    Why do they always say the population of Antrim when they have features on this or generic GAA in Belfast? Half the population would happily burn down every GAA ground and everyone in it, so it's a fairly false figure.


    GAA certainly exists under harsher conditions than other parts of 6 counties. Some of the Antrim towns are just not safe for Catholics, sportswise or otherwise. In Belfast you have a few strong clubs but mostly smaller ones which have survived through pretty tough times, so you have to respect them for that, and it is reason county teams are not stronger.

    Just think the Casement Park project was misguided, but they wouldn't be the only ones to have prioritised a prestige stadium over other things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    GAA certainly exists under harsher conditions than other parts of 6 counties. Some of the Antrim towns are just not safe for Catholics, sportswise or otherwise. In Belfast you have a few strong clubs but mostly smaller ones which have survived through pretty tough times, so you have to respect them for that, and it is reason county teams are not stronger.

    Just think the Casement Park project was misguided, but they wouldn't be the only ones to have prioritised a prestige stadium over other things.

    Oh I do repsect them, I was just saying about all the heads you hear on the features spouting "second biggest population after Dublin", etc rubbish. Yeah grand if it's pure numbers but in GAA terms it's a very small county. More than half the population despise the GAA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,392 ✭✭✭ roadmaster
    Registered User


    A 20k stadium for Antrim would be perfect. Tidy up clones and keep the finals there it is an ideal location and central for most of the province.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭ Redsoxfan
    Registered User


    Clones is hardly central. No more than Casement Park is.

    Cookstown would probably fit the bill location wise.

    Nothing much wrong with Clones the ground IMHO. As for the town itself, well, it's safe enough for GAA supporters. Unless drink drives you to do something dumb. Losing the Ulster Final would probably wipe out 90% of the town's GDP!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭ threeball
    Registered User


    roadmaster wrote: »
    A 20k stadium for Antrim would be perfect. Tidy up clones and keep the finals there it is an ideal location and central for most of the province.

    20k probably too big. 10 to 15k would be loads. Instead our gombeens decided to lob 10s of millions we don't have into a stadium so the rugby could play the world cup there and we could pay for the upkeep. Thankfully it's died a death. Long may it last.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,392 ✭✭✭ roadmaster
    Registered User


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    Clones is hardly central. No more than Casement Park is.

    Cookstown would probably fit the bill location wise.

    Nothing much wrong with Clones the ground IMHO. As for the town itself, well, it's safe enough for GAA supporters. Unless drink drives you to do something dumb. Losing the Ulster Final would probably wipe out 90% of the town's GDP!

    Was at a stag in Monaghan town last night and one of the lads had the idea of popping over to see the Armagh/ Cavan instead of going home. Looking around the ground I would say your 100% right nothing wrong with the ground , maybe tidy up the toilets etc but that’s it. It has being a while since I was there a great venue and great town for a few pints before the game. But I really hope they keep the Ulster final there and forget about Belfast


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭ Charles Babbage
    Registered User


    threeball wrote: »
    20k probably too big. 10 to 15k would be loads. Instead our gombeens decided to lob 10s of millions we don't have into a stadium so the rugby could play the world cup there and we could pay for the upkeep. Thankfully it's died a death. Long may it last.

    They decided to lob money from the British government into Casement. If they wish to pay for a stadium it seems wise to use their funds. Paying for the upkeep of a brand new stadium is an expense, but a manageable one.

    Given the availability of the money they might have shown some imagination and perhaps built a place with a smaller capacity and some innovation like a roof and continued to use Clones for capacity.

    However, it is a complete and utter disgrace that they closed the old stadium before they were ready to go ahead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭ threeball
    Registered User


    They decided to lob money from the British government into Casement. If they wish to pay for a stadium it seems wise to use their funds. Paying for the upkeep of a brand new stadium is an expense, but a manageable one.

    Given the availability of the money they might have shown some imagination and perhaps built a place with a smaller capacity and some innovation like a roof and continued to use Clones for capacity.

    However, it is a complete and utter disgrace that they closed the old stadium before they were ready to go ahead.

    That's all grand if it's the appropriate sized stadium but all we have in the GAA are dozen stadia that are never fully and the number is getting bigger
    PUC - never full except for one day a year and maybe a concert.
    McHale - Never full since it was built
    Gaelic Grounds - Never full
    Thurles- Full once or twice a year
    Fitzgerald - Never full
    Pearse - Never full
    Clones - full once a year at best

    Even croker is vastly oversized. There's certainly no point in building another. Stadium up keep is very expensive


  • Administrators Posts: 49,964 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ awec
    Category Moderator


    Last Stop wrote: »
    So obviously the redevelopment hasn’t gone ahead and Casement is in a very sorry state. This got me thinking.
    Casement is surrounded by residential housing and the residents clearly don’t want this going ahead.
    850m away, the Boucher playing fields are in an industrial area with more land available.
    Why don’t the GAA do a land swap and build a new stadium on Boucher fields site? They could fit 2 GAA pitches the other way on Casement site and have enough room on Boucher to fit a pitch outside the stadium.
    Would this not be a win win for everyone?
    It seems to me the GAA are compromising the stadium to fit in the site rather than building the best stadium possible.

    The council would never give away land like that, there would be uproar.

    The GAAs problem has always been that their business case never really stood up to scrutiny. They were over ambitious from the start, thought they could steamroll over residents and it was all downhill from there.

    They've already spent a fortune and got nothing for it. There's only so many times they'll be able to go back looking for money before the money is gone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ shockframe
    Registered User


    Casement park would be better off being built with a size of 20,000 at first with scope for expansion if the initial stadium is successful.

    Going all out for a big stadium will do nothing in the short term.


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