R.A.F pilot -asthma history enquiry.

EoghanB97

Hello all,
it is an aim of mine to become an R.A.F fighter pilot in the future. I know that this post is extremely competitive and only the best make it. For the purpose of this thread lets say that there are no other reasons to me not becoming a pilot in the R.A.F other than what I am about to talk about and I am suitable in all other ways. As a child i had had wheezing and was diagnosed with asthma from my GP. i was prescribed an inhaler. I never had an asthma attack and was never admitted to hospital for my asthma.This is only on my private GP records and not through the HSE. I grew out of this as it was only for a short period and I was diagnosed with not having asthma and have had absolutely no signs of asthma treatment etc in years. My GP has said it was very mild even when I had it. I am aware that you cannot be a member of aircrew in the R.A.F with a history of asthma. I am fit and training to be a lifeguard, I exercise regularly. If I have confirmation from my GP saying I am no longer affected by asthma in any way etc is there any way I can still be a pilot? Could he classify it as a misdiagnoses if he sees the situation given that I never had an attack and was never in hospital? Is there anything I can do? Can the diagnosis be changed at all? any help from anyone with real experience on the topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. btw: i read this on the R.A.F website, "Candidates with a history of a single episode of wheeze in association with a respiratory tract infection after their 5th birthday are to be referred for specialist assessment. Those with a negative assessment on formal testing may be acceptable for aircrew selection."Is there any way i can fit into this category?

EoghanB97

i forgot to add that the short of breath/wheezing was only seasonable and was suspected to be due to dust allergy

pablomakaveli

Are you a British citizen? because if your not it won't matter anyway.

EoghanB97

not at the moment but seeing as i have nine years before i am too old to enlist as a pilot in the R.A.F i will be able to apply for citizenship on residency grounds as i will be studying and living in the u.k and will be able to receive citizenship in time.

pablomakaveli

Ok well from my experience going for selection in the army, lads who had a history of asthma were sent to Scotland for further testing. When they got the all clear they carried on with selection as normal. Whether the RAF does this as well, i don't know.

My advice to you though would be to get i touch with an RAF recruitment office and see if you can find out from them or see if they can refer you to someone who will be able to tell you if it will be an issue or not.

I'm not aware of anyone on this forum who's in the RAF so might be hard to find out from someone on here.

EoghanB97

okay thanks for the help, I am aware i need to contact a recruitment office and check things out with them but i'm just checking if anyone on here has been in the same position. I'll contact the R.A.F soon thanks for the info on scotland though hopefully its not just a straight no!

tac foley

EoghanB97 wrote: »

not at the moment but seeing as i have nine years before i am too old to enlist as a pilot in the R.A.F i will be able to apply for citizenship on residency grounds as i will be studying and living in the u.k and will be able to receive citizenship in time.

So right now you are sixteen years old, correct?

And you are basing your citizenship on at least five years residency in UK?

You'd better get moving.

tac

OS119

not being an MD, and not knowing the exact medical definitions of the terms they use, i'd say its possible that you may fit within the recruitment criteria.

however, RAF/FAA aircrew selection is both very limited, and spectacularly competitive. i'm afraid that the 'minimum' standard bears no relation whatsoever to the standard of the people who are actually selected. given the choices OASC are offered, i'm afraid anyone with any kind of negative against their application (whether medical, nationality, charactor, education etc...) is going to stand absolutely no chance whatsoever. their appliction is going to be 'chaff' to be removed at the first sift.

sorry.

also, on a wider point, i think the nationality/residency requirements are going to get much, much more challenging - the US is getting much sweatier about who uses its high-end stuff like F-35 and RC-135, and guess who's buying their high end stuff..?

Geekness1234

It takes ten years to get citizenship. Five years before applying, then five years after.
Also the age limit for pilots is 25, so unless you're doing your LC this year, you might want to reconsider career paths.
I could possibly be wrong though. I hope so.

tac foley

Geekness1234 wrote: »

Also the age limit for pilots is 25./QUOTE]

Yup, as I noted. Hence my reference to the OP's age in my post.

Two years ago there was a complete year's worth of Officer Cadets in training 'sent home' for lack of future applications. The point about the extreme nature of the selection process is not there just to frighten the OP off.

tac

EoghanB97

thanks for the help, I understand it is EXTREMELY difficult. I am hoping to have a degree and further degree as well as a private pilots licence by the time it gets to the enrollment stage, so I was just wondering if a history of 'asthma' or whatever it is would be enough to disqualify me. Any chance that with other outstanding credentials such as high educational qualifications and a private licence etc. might save me from being sifted out immediately during selection? thanks again (btw i hope i don't appear to come across as arrogant by saying ill definitely be able to get all these things and citizenship including, but the point of this thread is to see if I had all of those things would the medical issue alone be grounds for disqualification.)

tac foley

EoghanB97 wrote: »

thanks for the help, I understand it is EXTREMELY difficult. I am hoping to have a degree and further degree as well as a private pilots licence by the time it gets to the enrollment stage, so I was just wondering if a history of 'asthma' or whatever it is would be enough to disqualify me. Any chance that with other outstanding credentials such as high educational qualifications and a private licence etc. might save me from being sifted out immediately during selection? thanks again (btw i hope i don't appear to come across as arrogant by saying ill definitely be able to get all these things and citizenship including, but the point of this thread is to see if I had all of those things would the medical issue alone be grounds for disqualification.)

A PPL before trying to join the RAF as a pilot means diddly-squat [I have single-engine VFR license for for tricycle, tail-dragger and floats] - you don't get let off any part of Basic Flight School because of it. Remember that the present Tucano is a long way from a 172. Add to that that you are going to be competing with folks who are every bit as clever as you say you are going to be, and who are natives who do NOT have a history of unidentifed wheezing.

Just a subtle hint to you - do NOT make any attempt to conceal your medical history in any way - you WILL be found out and dumped faster than you can say 'Wha-'.

Lots of luck anyhow. To get two degrees in a foreign country AND a PPL as well you are going to be a very busy person indeed - hopefully your degree will be of some use? Media studies or Expanded polystyrene thinking methodology are useless.

tac

OS119

EoghanB97 wrote: »

...Any chance that with other outstanding credentials such as high educational qualifications and a private licence etc. might save me from being sifted out immediately during selection?..

sorry, no chance - merely having a PPL and an MSc isn't going to help you if they aren't 100% happy about your fitness and med history. almost all OASC candidates are graduates, and a large proportion will have done quite a bit of flying with the University Air Sqn's, or the Air Cadets.

the only kind of 'get outs' i can think of, and i'm being serious, is flying history at astronaut level.

as Tac alluded to previously, the RAF made about 100 trainee aircrew redundant 2 years ago - all had been through Sleaford Tech, all had done flying training selection, all had done well over 200 hours flying on Tucano's and Hawks, and some were within weeks of moving onto Tornado or Typhoons. faced with the kind of choice that allows them to ditch that many trainees, some foreign bloke with a dodgy medical history isn't even going to get to the pile, let alone get to the bottom of it.

i'm sorry for you, i really am - you're just unlucky to be born when you were: in the 1950/60's the RAF took anyone with broadly the right number of limbs, though the downside of that is that in the 50's and 60's the RAF lost a hundred pilots a year in flying accidents. there's one year in the 1950's where the RAF lost 300+ airframes...

tac foley

Just in case the OP or anybody else is wondering, 'Sleaford Tech' is what those of us in the Army called the Royal Air Force College Cranwell.

Just we call the RAF 'Crab-air', or the Royal Chair Force.

tac

pablomakaveli

Another option for you OP might be the Army Air Corps. Not sure if you'd face the same requirements as the RAF but if you really want to fly aircraft it might be worth looking into.

American Pie

Geekness1234 wrote: »

It takes ten years to get citizenship. Five years before applying, then five years after.
Also the age limit for pilots is 25, so unless you're doing your LC this year, you might want to reconsider career paths.
I could possibly be wrong though. I hope so.

5 years residence before you can apply for citizenship and 1 year for the application to be completed usually. The main problem is cost. The total cost between exams, application for naturalisation and passport can cost almost £1000.

American Pie

OS119 wrote: »

sorry, no chance - merely having a PPL and an MSc isn't going to help you if they aren't 100% happy about your fitness and med history. almost all OASC candidates are graduates, and a large proportion will have done quite a bit of flying with the University Air Sqn's, or the Air Cadets.

the only kind of 'get outs' i can think of, and i'm being serious, is flying history at astronaut level.

as Tac alluded to previously, the RAF made about 100 trainee aircrew redundant 2 years ago - all had been through Sleaford Tech, all had done flying training selection, all had done well over 200 hours flying on Tucano's and Hawks, and some were within weeks of moving onto Tornado or Typhoons. faced with the kind of choice that allows them to ditch that many trainees, some foreign bloke with a dodgy medical history isn't even going to get to the pile, let alone get to the bottom of it.

i'm sorry for you, i really am - you're just unlucky to be born when you were: in the 1950/60's the RAF took anyone with broadly the right number of limbs, though the downside of that is that in the 50's and 60's the RAF lost a hundred pilots a year in flying accidents. there's one year in the 1950's where the RAF lost 300+ airframes...

Just to counter some of the extreme negativity being posted here, although the odds are not in your favour they aren't entirely impossible. I'm also not quite sure about the "astronaut" comment above but I'm sure it was made in good faith. There are a few important points to note.

The nationality point is important but not just as bad as people are alluding to. I've looked into the RAF side of things in the past but never applied. My main interest was always on the other side of the Atlantic but unfortunately I was born in the wrong country for that.

Providing you can get British citizenship, you shouldn't be prevented from applying. There are some jobs that require birth in the UK with a UK parent, however they are usually limited to Intel jobs and didn't apply to pilot positions when I looked into it. Irish citizens can apply for other jobs within the RAF and obviously depends on the role. You may have to lose your Irish passport when applying for the position but I have heard varied accounts on how important this is and have heard of people retaining dual citizenship despite holding positions which are dependant on security clearances e.t.c.

Just for an example, on a tour of an RAF base not too long ago, one of our guides was a chopper pilot who had been born in Waterford. He said the family had emigrated when he was a child so being Irish shouldn't be a complete barrier. Also on that visit, one of the senior officers praised the Irish Air Corp and encouraged those of us who were eligible to also consider an application with the AC. He had enjoyed a number of trips/exercises to Baldonnel in the years previously apparently and had a great respect for them.

I know two people who applied for the RAF in the last few years as pilots. One was not successful and was rejected because he didn't have enough life and team experience. They will look for people who are not afraid to be part of and lead a team. Sports, military, business or university work and experience e.t.c. will all be beneficial and considered during selection. Having a 1st engineering degree will not be enough if you can't show that you have the people and leadership skills to go with it. I won't say having a PPL is "diddly squat" either. It will show you are interested in flying and have the already got the basic skills and knowledge but it will only be added to a long list of areas they will consider.

The other friend who applied was successful and made it through Cranwell and into flight training. However he was one of the unfortunate 100 or so candidates that were dropped, an in his case with only weeks to go. I know if it were me, that would have completely devastated me, but its something you have to know can happen. He picked up and moved on and is doing really well now. Both of these people are from Northern Ireland so although that helped them with requirements, when in England the difference between North and South is less defined and we're all usually lumped into one.

The most worrying part about your situation is medical I'm afraid. For any branch of the British Armed Forces there must be no history of asthma for a minimum of 5 years before application and preferably more. This is an absolute requirement and anything within this period that is remotely asthma related leads to a direct rejection. Any prescription history for any asthma related medication including inhalers whether or not that medication was prescribed for asthma will lead to a rejection if it was within 5 years. They can be picky though so even if you do not have history within 5 years they can still reject you if they feel it necessary. Within the Army if they have concerns during the application process that past asthma or breathing related problems are not fully resolved they can send you for a special lung function test to confirm (Sorry, I see this has already been mentioned). I imagine the RAF could do the same. I also suspect for pilots the RAF may be even stricter. At the very best, it may be a significant barrier so I would suggest investigating now. The USAF are good at giving waivers for some issues such as historic medical conditions but I believe the RAF aren't anywhere near as generous. They won't have access to your medical records in the Rep. of Ireland the same way they do with the NHS, but as TAC has already said concealing any serious medical history can lead to much more serious consequences if it is found out later down the line. Its fraud and will usually result in being binned straight away and potentially being investigated for fraud no matter how long you've served.

If after you've looked into it and you feel you still have a shot all I can say is go for it and the best of luck. I had the exact same dream but between a little bad luck and paying a bit more attention to the people who said it was ridiculous and impossible, I didn't pursue it. I have a pretty damn good job at the minute and ironically through it have done a small amount of work for the RAF in the past , but ultimately its not what I want to do and I'm slowly beginning to hate it and feel a bit trapped. I'd give it up in a second if it meant getting a realistic shot at going for the military pilot position, even if I knew I was going to be dumped near the end of training. Be realistic about it but don't end up regretting not going for it!

PS: If you're considering joining the British Military be careful who you talk to about it and what info you give publicly Eoghan. Not everybody sees it as the dream job or an acceptable aspiration to have. I understand at 16 the problems of the North seem very far away but they are very real for a lot of people who have chosen that path in life. Joining the British military is something you should be discrete about if you are seriously considering it.

knucklehead6

tac foley wrote: »

Just in case the OP or anybody else is wondering, 'Sleaford Tech' is what those of us in the Army called the Royal Air Force College Cranwell.

Just we call the RAF 'Crab-air', or the Royal Chair Force.

tac

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC

I'd heard of Crab air and have a vague memory of something about it being to do with the colour of the uniforms.

Where did sleaford tech come from?

OS119

knucklehead6 wrote: »

...Where did sleaford tech come from?

Cranwell is near Sleaford, but the 'Tech' thing is pure delicious snobbery - in the UK a 'Tech' is short for Technical College, or just some Further Education College where you might do a demanding course in Beauty Studies, Hairdressing, Fingernail Painting or some other ruse to keep the young and unemployable off the unemployment figures.

its a Army/Navy dig at the RAF's Officer Corps image of being a bit chavvy, of having 'habbits, rather than traditions', and its reputation for employing people who wear slip on shoes, man-made fibres, and being called 'Kevin', or 'Darren'. some of them even holiday in caravans.

an Army Officer, even one from a Corps rather than a Regiment, or an RN Officer, is a gentleman: he will have been to a decent school, have gone to a decent university (ie: not one created in the last 150 years), he will wear laced up shoes, own red trousers, and never, ever, wear acryllic or polyester. he will also not share the first name of anyone who has been on the Jeremy Kyle show.

the RAF don't help this by having a working uniform that suggests they work on the security desk at Tesco's.

tac foley

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Another option for you OP might be the Army Air Corps. Not sure if you'd face the same requirements as the RAF but if you really want to fly aircraft it might be worth looking into.

Same deal with the wheezes, I'm afraid.

Flying is flying - AAC isn't anybody's second best set of medical standards.

tac

tac foley

OS119 wrote: »

...the RAF don't help this by having a working uniform that suggests they work on the security desk at Tesco's.

...the the Royal Automobile Club.

In any case, their 'MESS KIT' suits are so boring -they are ALL THE BLOODY SAME!!! And they look like waiters on a budget cruise liner.

The BA, on the other tentacle, has a bewildering range of Service dress styles and colours, and as for the Mess kits..............words fail me.

Anybody, no matter how poor they are, can buy an RAF mess kit for about £15-20. I'm proud to say that MY mess kit, when I bought it back in 1984 [harumph], cost me almost £2000.00, and if THAT's not snobbery for you, I don't know what is.

tac

tac foley

American Pie says - 'just to counter some of the extreme negativity being posted here...'',

Do you want OS119 and me to lie and tell the OP that it's all a cunning plot to keep 'Paddies' out? And that providing that he is showing signs of a pulse and measurable respiration he'll be just fine?

'Within the Army if they have concerns during the application process that past asthma or breathing related problems are not fully resolved they can send you for a special lung function test to confirm (Sorry, I see this has already been mentioned). I imagine the RAF could do the same. I also suspect for pilots the RAF may be even stricter.'

Basic lung capacity, respiratory and cardiac recovery standards are the same for all three arms of service. However, anything to do with flying - fast or slow, front or back seat or loading, or operating certain equipment within a flying airframe [A/E, INTEL] et al, or submarining requires a raised level of all three beyond the norm, and will be rigourously investigated prior to specialised selection. Non-smokers have a decided advantage in these cases.

tac

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OP, you can apply for a Class 1 medical here in Ireland (the Mater Private). While not as strict as air force medical requirements, it is what airline pilots have to undergo to qualify for their commercial pilots licences.

If you don't pass the medical here, forget about an RAF flying job.