Brother-in-law and my mother

LegacyUser

There were two bereavements in my family in the last three years. My uncle (my mothers brother) died of natural causes and my first cousin (my mother's nephew) died of cancer.
On neither ocassion did my brother-in-law (let's call him Liam; not his real name) offer his condolences or send a note of sympathy to my mother.
Neither did he attend the funeral or removal on either ocassion. We didn't really expect him to I suppose because they were both during weekdays and he lives about an hour away but I know that my mother would have really thought a lot of it if he had come.
The least he could have done was sympathise with my mother verbally. He had ample opportunity as she visits my sister's house often enough.
A lot of people might say "big deal" but my mother comes from an older, rural generation where this is expected of friends, neighbours and certainly relatives so she was fairly annoyed. She said so to me but not to Liam himself.
There was also a bit of aggro during my uncle's funeral as my sister at first said she could only come to the rosary and removal but not the funeral because she couldn't get a baby-sitter (she has two young children).
Eventually she did come to the funeral but only after she had a blazing row with my mother about it (not the most tactful way to deal with somebody who has just lost her brother).
My mother stopped talking to her for a while but there is a fragile peace at the moment.
Liam has never made much of an effort to be friendly with me or my father. He isn't rude but I just get the impression that he doesn't find us very interesting (maybe we are not interesting but we are his realtives). He just wants to be with people whose company he enjoys. Getting conversation out of him is like getting blood from a stone (except when he is with his friends of course). One time my father was over at the house with him he completely ignored him and just watched TV. My father was furious. I would never do something like that to his father.
He is quite an inconsiderate person really and my mother doesn't really like him as a result of the incidents outlined above.
I am only posting this because another relative of my mother's (her other brother's wife) is not too well and might pass on sooner rather than later. If she does, should I mention to my sister that she should ask Liam to send a Mass card or sympathy note or something?
If he does what he did the last time (i.e. nothing) then she will not be happy.
My mother has another elderly brother and sister too so I just want to get him into the routine of expressing condolences in a death in the family. It's the done thing isn't it?
He could not have any reason against my mother as none of his relatives have died so there have been no funerals on his side .My mother is always friendly and polite to his parents.
I have not taken sides in any of this stuff, I just want to keep the peace. Should I say something to my sister in the event of this death occuring or say nothing?
I get on well with both my mother and my sister.

Queen-Mise

Stay out of it, stay away from any of it. None of it is any of your business.

You are doing the right thing listening to your mam ranting, but it is not your place to say or do anything. Just because someone gives out to you about a person/place/situation - that doesn't mean they want you to do anything about it. They are probably just venting.

Your cousin [brother-in-law, sorry don't know where I got cousin out of] is an adult, it is up to him on how to react in any of these occasions. Same as with your sister, that was between your sister and mother to sort out. And they did - no matter how far from ideal the way they did it was.


You are taking on stuff there that is none of your business. Let it in one ear and out the other.


EDIT: My husband would never give condolences to my mother on the death of one of her siblings - he is the immediate family, why would someone in the immediate family give condolences to someone else in it?

Calhoun

Quite frankly and being blunt its non of your business, i would leave well enough alone.

His and your sisters relationship with you mother and father may not be the best but its between then, if you get involved you will just paint a target on your head.

You can however speak to her about the relationship you have with him but he doesn't sound like a guy you would want to hang around with why bother?

CaraMay

None of your business.

Triangla

You see this as disrespectful behaviour then you have every right to bring it up.

I'd mention it to your sister. She knows the guy and how to deal with him.

Big Bag of Chips

Some people just aren't good around funerals. And would rather ignore it, than feel awkward by sympathising.

So he's quiet. Not very chatty. Doesn't go out of his way to chat to you all. That's just the way he is. And wishing he were different, or wishing he'd make an effort, or wishing he'd sympathise with your mam is going to achieve nothing only make you more frustrated at the fact that he doesn't do any of those things.

Accept that he is a bit "odd" if you want, and stop expecting him to be different.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Some people just aren't good around funerals. And would rather ignore it, than feel awkward by sympathising.

So he's quite. Not very chatty. Doesn't go out of his way at to you all. That's just the way he is. And wishing he were different, or wishing he'd make an effort, or wishing he'd sympathise with your mam is going to achieve nothing only make you more frustrated at the fact that he doesn't do any of those things.

Accept that he is a bit "odd" if you want, and stop expecting him to be different.

Exactly this. People spend far too much time worrying about what others are at / what they think etc etc. Life's too short. And at the end of the day he's probably completely oblivious to what ye think so ye're only stressing yerselves out.

freshpopcorn

Keep your nose out of it in my opinion.
Liam married your sister not her parents/siblings. If Liam and your sister have a loving/happy relationship then that's all that matters.
Liam might have a different attitude/upbringing on how to deal with funerals than you have had.
I actually like the sound of Liam he knows who he is and he doesn't put on act/show on around ye trying to impress ye. (So at least he isn't being fake)

Calhoun

As pointed out by popcorn an important point to realize is " Liam married your sister not her parents/siblings.", i would be a bit like him to an extent. I am naturally an introvert and i open up to very few people my wife being one of them.

I am not as bad as you describe your BIL but at times i would be in a position where i haven't been comfortable speaking with my inlaws. I am not sure how it is but i suspect you come from a more sharing but structured family with certain norms, where as he probably doesn't.

The thought of someone trying to force their norms on to me wouldn't go down very well, i would imagine this could be the same if you tried it.

As said already i would just back off and accept him as he is.

LegacyUser

I can understand why your Mum is feeling a bit hurt, but you'd be totally out of order to intervene. You'd be turning a situation from mild(ish) annoyance, to all out criticism of his personality/way of dealing with things, and forcing side-taking. You would be pouring petrol on to a reasonably mild situation, and it really is none of your business.

P_1

As others have said it's not really any of your business and you'd probably be best keeping out of it. Just because people are related it doesn't mean they have any obligation to involve themselves in their relative's lives.

harr

Did Liam ever meet the deceased uncle or cousin other than a wedding or something because most lads I know including my self would not travel an hour there and back if I didn't know them, , no problem with the wife goings and me minding the kids.
As for him being rude i reckon he might be just a quiet shy lad who might feel awkward around his in laws.
As others have said stay out of it once he and your sister are getting on ok its none of yours or mothers business what funeral they attend.
When I got married first I got caught to go my wife's second cousin funeral over 2 hours away the whole lot every part of it from mass night before, house before burial , burial and then soup and sandwiches .I never met the girl or any of her family and my wife had not seen her in over ten years .I never felt as awkward and out of place in my whole life .I told the wife never again to even mention a funeral again unless i knew them or at least met them at some stage when they were alive. I just hate funerals and maybe your bother in law is the same.

Merkin

It's not your battle to fight OP and if you do decide to stick your oar in, however well intentioned, it will be you who gets caught in the crossfire.

Leave well enough alone.

LegacyUser

I don't see a problem with this OP.

Usually once somebody represents the family that would be OK and your sister was at both funerals. It's not always possible for everybody from a family to attend funerals and I wouldn't expect a husband & wife to send two separate mass cards - it's usually one per family. Yes he should have given his condolences when he met your mother, or rang her, but maybe he's uncomfortable in those situations.

It's not something you can do anything about except for maybe mentioning it in passing to your sister but it's not worth you having aggravation over.

username123

Stay out of it.

Ultimately you want to control how he behaves so your mother wont be upset. Well, you cant control other people and you will only end up with a wrecked head as a result.

Just because he doesnt want to be all involved with your family - well this is just the way some people are. Id hate to be expected to socialise or spend lots of time with my in laws. Theyre nice and all, but I just prefer to do my own thing. Its quite normal.

Ande1975

Op,

I have two 'unusual' SILs who are married to my brothers. My mother regularly tells me the horrific things they say, do, behave etc. I listen to her and we rant about what we would love to say to put them back in their boxes. We would never do it.
The only way I would ever say something would be directly to them, IF, they said something derogatory to me or my family in front of me. That's it.
My brothers have turned into big girls blouses but there is nothing I can do about it. I'm there for my parents to listen and that is as far as it goes.
Stay out of it.

LegacyUser

OK I won't say anything as that is what most people have advised. I was only going to say something to avoid any trouble down the line. Fair enough maybe it was expecting too much for him to physically come to either funeral but I still think he should have said a few sympathetic words to my mother around the time of the funerals.
I take the person's point about him never having met either of the two people who died but lots of people go to funerals of people they never met but they go because they know a relative of that person. I know some people take it too far taking offence when people don't come to funerals or send a mass card ("I'll never vote for him again" when a TD doesn't is a classic example).
It's more of a rural thing, maybe there are a lot of dubs posting on this thread, I dunno.
One person said he was a shy guy and that was the reason; he is not shy, he is very talkative around people he is "into". Less so around people he is not.

username123

kieran_99 wrote: »

One person said he was a shy guy and that was the reason; he is not shy, he is very talkative around people he is "into". Less so around people he is not.

Is that not true of any of us? People will always be chattier with people they feel more comfortable around. The way you are judging him, it's not surprising if he isn't comfortable around you.

up for anything

I can't understand why your sister's husband would be expected to send a card or condolence note. I'd never expect the spouse of a sibling to to do that. It was a bit off of him though not to even say, "sorry for your loss" or something like that though whether or not he chose to go to the funerals. I'm really bad at death not having (touch wood) much experience of it and I know that I feel really weird saying stuff like that but I force myself to do it because I know that if it was the other way round I would appreciate it.

Some people just really don't want to get into the whole family thing their other halve's family and I don't see much wrong with that. Other people's expectations can weigh very heavily on someone who isn't used to 'doing the right thing' for the sake of it.

cuilteanna

up for anything wrote: »

Other people's expectations can weigh very heavily on someone who isn't used to 'doing the right thing' for the sake of it.

Your mother and your BIL have very different views of "the right thing" and nothing you say will ever change that. I might express condolences to my MIL on the death of her brother if I saw her close to the event, but a nephew would never enter my mind as being necessary. My OH has a funeral-going family while mine is missing the "funeral gene" entirely. As long as he goes along to his family funerals I figure that discharges any responsibility on my part, and whatever decisions I make in regard to deaths in my family puts no obligations on him. (And yes we're in Dublin!)

Maura74

The person concern is dead the time to spend time with that person is when he/she are alive and especially when they are ill. Always be good and kind to people that are alive that what makes us human and civilized.

Funerals focus is on the relative/friends, but the person in the coffin will not know or care who is at his/her funeral.