Is it time to seperate

rickmoister

After 16 years of marriage I feel like that I can't take anymore of the nit picking, do as I say not as do, it is my way or no way, I never do anything wrong so there is no need to apologize , manipulating days out to do what she wants to do not what we left home to do.I have tried to speak to her about it but it is always the same can't understand what I am upset she says I am oversensitive.She refuses to come to counseling .We have 2 kids 7 & 10.Should I just endure all of the above for the sake of the kids or should I make a clean break.

Merkin

I think you need to tell your wife that you are thinking of leaving her. Tell her that you don't know if the relationship is salvageable and that the only way to really establish whether it is or not is if you both agree to attend couples counseling. I think if she wants to save or work on the marriage then resolutely refusing to go isn't really acceptable tbh.

Rather than open the conversation accusing her of nit picking etc etc, tell her you've been giving the future of your marriage some thought and take it from there.

rickmoister

I have told her that I am thinking of leaving because I can't see a future for us.She cried and asked me not to do it and said that with help I (me) could change and then ignored me for the rest of the night.

judge_dredd

your wife ( sounds ) quite controlling - neurotic and passive agressive

its a big descision , this is ireland so you wont get the same access to your children that your wife will , one thing id recomend is not moving out too soon , you have no obligation to and if you volunteer , she might not let you back or at least could make things difficult

rickmoister

I am not moving out as I have put too into the house I built it myself only had to get a plumber and electrician. I was going to move into the spare room and explain to the kids what was happening without blaming anyone if possible.

ShaShaBear

rickmoister wrote: »

I am not moving out as I have put too into the house I built it myself only had to get a plumber and electrician. I was going to move into the spare room and explain to the kids what was happening without blaming anyone if possible.

That would not be fair on the kids, and the atmosphere in the house would probably be extremely emotionally damaging.

Merkin

rickmoister wrote: »

I am not moving out as I have put too into the house I built it myself only had to get a plumber and electrician. I was going to move into the spare room and explain to the kids what was happening without blaming anyone if possible.

Seems like neither of you are actually prepared to deal with this like mature adults.

Before breaking up, you should both attend counseling in order to prepare yourselves (and your little children) for the best course of action which will be least damaging to all concerned.

jcon1913

rickmoister wrote: »

After 16 years of marriage I feel like that I can't take anymore of the nit picking, do as I say not as do, it is my way or no way, I never do anything wrong so there is no need to apologize , manipulating days out to do what she wants to do not what we left home to do.I have tried to speak to her about it but it is always the same can't understand what I am upset she says I am oversensitive.She refuses to come to counseling .We have 2 kids 7 & 10.Should I just endure all of the above for the sake of the kids or should I make a clean break.

I don't want to sound a note of caution, but what you have sounds like 80% of the marraiges out there.

Marraige is less like The Sound of Music and more Shirley Valentine. In other words, it's a grind.

She wants to go shopping, you want to watch football. This is an unreconcilable Saturday conundrum.

You can't have your own way, and be happy. So what do you want to do? Watch Saturday football and see your kids for 2 hours a week?

My advice? Suck it up, because you only get one chance with your kids, and they only get one chance with you.

Be honest with your wife, tell her you are not getting on because one or both of you are trying to manipulate the other in to doing things they don't want to do. You go and do things you want to do and let her off to do things she wants to do.

I was in the same situation many years ago and gradually did this, although when I didnt want to go shopping ( or whatever ) etc I was accused of everything from having an affair to being called names, to being a total failure etc. etc. etc.

If she nit picks about what you do around the house, then do F all in the house. Do the garden or paint the house or service the car, or clean out the car. Do something she can't nitpick about.

But be honest and tell her what you are doing. 2 passive agressives in one house is common in this country because we are not assertive enough - in other words say honestly ''I want this, I am prepared to do this, I find this accepable but not this.'' Firm but fair.

dipdip

jcon1913 wrote: »

I don't want to sound a note of caution, but what you have sounds like 80% of the marraiges out there.

That's rubbish.

And even if it were true, it wouldn't matter, as how most marriages function is irrelevant to the OP.

jcon1913

dipdip wrote: »

That's rubbish.

And even if it were true, it wouldn't matter, as how most marriages function is irrelevant to the OP.

IMHO people come on here for advice - practical advice, not some namby pamby counsellor stuff.

username123

rickmoister wrote: »

I am not moving out as I have put too into the house I built it myself only had to get a plumber and electrician. I was going to move into the spare room and explain to the kids what was happening without blaming anyone if possible.

So what who built the house? Are you really going to hang the future happiness of you, another adult, and 2 kids - based on who built the house?

Seriously - get real! Moving into the spare room is only going to generate a tense horrible environment for all involved.

Im sure when you built the house you werent building it for you alone anyway, were you? Presumably you were building it for you and your family. So your children would have a nice home - as well as yourself and your wife.

Wibbs

username123 wrote: »

So what who built the house? Are you really going to hang the future happiness of you, another adult, and 2 kids - based on who built the house?

Well if it comes to a divorce, the judge will likely not care and she'll get the house and primary access to the children.

OP, IMH don't pussyfoot around. Living in that kind of environment is no good for you, or her, never mind your children. Sit down together, calmly but surely insist on marriage guidance. Ignore or rather don't rise to the tears that may come. If she is the passive aggressive type, such things can be bargaining chips. Going by your story of the previous time you brought this up it sure sounds like that. Don't assume just because she agrees, that it's all agreed. Make sure she backs up talk with action into saving this marriage.

If this doesn't work for you both(and hopefully it does), then get good legal advice and be prepared to lose the house if you do split up.

I don't envy you rickmoister, but I do wish you both luck that you get the marriage back on course.

dipdip

jcon1913 wrote: »

IMHO people come on here for advice - practical advice, not some namby pamby counsellor stuff.

Best to advise based on facts then, not fantasy.

jcon1913

dipdip wrote: »

Best to advise based on facts then, not fantasy.

What fantasy would that be?

dipdip

jcon1913 wrote: »

What fantasy would that be?

I'm not getting into an argument with you.

The fantasy is the statistic you offered that 80% of marriages are unhappy/passive aggressive/incompatible/a grind/power play between nags and fools.

jcon1913

dipdip wrote: »

I'm not getting into an argument with you.

The fantasy is the statistic you offered that 80% of marriages are unhappy/passive aggressive/incompatible/a grind/power play between nags and fools.

My opinion is my opinion, yours is yours. I suspect we both agree that life is not always happy-clappy and that some work is required to make a marraige work.

A bit of nagging about something, or an afternoon ( or 10 ) in the shopping centre is nothing compared to the unhappiness a seperation can cause. Nuff said.

username123

jcon1913 wrote: »

A bit of nagging about something, or an afternoon ( or 10 ) in the shopping centre is nothing compared to the unhappiness a seperation can cause. Nuff said.

I dont agree with this. A bit of nagging can become a weary painful tense situation over time and cause more damage than a single harsh separation.

Quite frankly, faced with staying in a relationship with someone I am permanently in battle with versus separating - I would take separation every time. Who wants to be in an marriage with someone they dont even like or respect (which is where repeated nagging and rowing leads to)?

I think the 80% figure is utter nonsense also.

jcon1913

username123 wrote: »

I dont agree with this. A bit of nagging can become a weary painful tense situation over time and cause more damage than a single harsh separation.

Quite frankly, faced with staying in a relationship with someone I am permanently in battle with versus separating - I would take separation every time. Who wants to be in an marriage with someone they dont even like or respect (which is where repeated nagging and rowing leads to)?

I think the 80% figure is utter nonsense also.

Why do you think you would be permanently in battle with someone? Take the nagging like an adult, shape up, put out the bins, mow the lawn what ever, and get on with it. Don't leave your family because of it.

Just accept a few ups and downs - dont expect everyone to be clapping their hands to the beat on the street. Life is not like that.

Utter nonsense? What is your opinion of the amount of people who put up with minor inconveniences? ( like an afternon in shopping with their OH instead of doing what they want ). My opinion is that 80% of people put up with some compromises in the course of their week.

To say otherwise is more of the happy-clappy, Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway, self-empowerment nonsense that can mess up your life.

We can't all have everything we want at every moment of every day. Fact.

alias06

jcon1913 wrote: »

Why do you think you would be permanently in battle with someone? Take the nagging like an adult, shape up, put out the bins, mow the lawn what ever, and get on with it. Don't leave your family because of it.

Just accept a few ups and downs - dont expect everyone to be clapping their hands to the beat on the street. Life is not like that.

Utter nonsense? What is your opinion of the amount of people who put up with minor inconveniences? ( like an afternon in shopping with their OH instead of doing what they want ). My opinion is that 80% of people put up with some compromises in the course of their week.

To say otherwise is more of the happy-clappy, Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway, self-empowerment nonsense that can mess up your life.

We can't all have everything we want at every moment of every day. Fact.

People shouldn't accept being miserable. People should aspire to being happy. That's not happy clappy nonsense, its just basic common sense. If you are in a relationship that is dragging you down and making you miserable then you should either do something to fix it or end the relationship.

username123

jcon1913 wrote: »

Why do you think you would be permanently in battle with someone? Take the nagging like an adult, shape up, put out the bins, mow the lawn what ever, and get on with it. Don't leave your family because of it.

Just accept a few ups and downs - dont expect everyone to be clapping their hands to the beat on the street. Life is not like that.

The OP states:

rickmoister wrote: »

After 16 years of marriage I feel like that I can't take anymore of the nit picking, do as I say not as do, it is my way or no way, I never do anything wrong so there is no need to apologize , manipulating days out to do what she wants to do not what we left home to do.

That is not the description of a few ups and downs imo.

jcon1913 wrote: »

Utter nonsense? What is your opinion of the amount of people who put up with minor inconveniences? ( like an afternon in shopping with their OH instead of doing what they want ). My opinion is that 80% of people put up with some compromises in the course of their week.

Im not really sure what you define as a minor inconvenience? Shopping? If you want food, you have to go to the shops for it. Of course Id rather lie on a beach in the sun than go shopping, who wouldnt? Again, that is not what the OP is describing.

jcon1913 wrote: »

We can't all have everything we want at every moment of every day. Fact.

There is a difference between having everything we want at every moment of the day and actually working as a team with your partner and not feeling utterly miserable because you are in a bad marriage. Im not sure you see this difference. You seem to think the OP is describing normality. Perhaps it is your normality - but it would not be normal, imo, to be locked into a miserable existence with your marriage partner. Thats not what relationships are about.

jcon1913 wrote: »

Marraige is less like The Sound of Music and more Shirley Valentine. In other words, it's a grind.

This ^^ - utter nonsense. My marriage is not a grind, nor are the marriages of most people I know. Myself and my husband respect each other and are friends. Why on earth would we stay in the marriage if either or both of us thought it was a grind? As stated above - thats just common sense.

December2012

You've asked her to go for counselling which suggests to me you want the narrative to work.

In that case don't leave and don't take any actions toward separating.

You could go to a counsellor yourself. You want the marriage to work so stop thinking about breaking up.

It's not a guarantee but often when one partner 1 goes and sees the counsellor, the partner 2 now has proof that partner 1 wants to work on their troubled relationship. This can then make partner 2 want to go to counselling.

That way, both of you go to relationship counselling and your relationship has more of a chance.

Don't be thinking about your exit strategy - either you want this to work or you don't.

Ann84

It is possible to seperate and have good relationships with your children. You can apply to have shared custody of your children and the courts will support this as it is in the best interest of the children.

If you are going to seperate, try to do this as amicably as possible. You have spoken to your wife already so if you decide to pursure a seperation, it's not going to be an out-and-out shock. I would not recommend trial seperations as this can lead to a world of mind games and trench digging.
Chances are, if you are not happy... she is not happy (could be in denial, could be willing to tolerate more than you, could be doing the same as you and wanting to play happy families, who knows!).
If you no longer lover her, you need to tell her this. Nobody, married or not would want to be in a loveless relationship.You have tried and this is not a punishment, it's just the way it has panned out by the sounds of it.
If you can, suggest mediation, I would recommend staying out of the courts if possible. A legal guardianship needs to be established but if ye can agree this in mediation it is ideal.

As for the house, you could try to discuss this also but you have to realise that seperation will change your life, not just where you live. Is the house worth more than a life and happiness? The less precious you can be about material things (without being a mug!) the better as if you do seperate, you will eventually want a new life! Why would you want to be stuck in a marital home with memories all around, a clean start is good!
Things have to be split you need to think about how to do this in the least disruptive way for your kids also.

Don't stay and be miserable, I come from seperated parents and I am a seperated parent. My only wish from my childhood was that my parents should have seperated sooner, and my only regret about my relationship is that i should have left sooner.
I share parent my daughter with my ex and we both have great relationships with her, better than when we were together and miserable! I have a wonderful relationship with my Dad now, and so does my sister. He moved out when i was 12 and i didnt stay with him a lot, but he is a huge part of my life since moving out of my Mom's.

We are all happier for these seperations, ex's, kids' etc. Hope my experience is of some use.

JD Dublin

username123 wrote: »

I dont agree with this. A bit of nagging can become a weary painful tense situation over time and cause more damage than a single harsh separation.

Quite frankly, faced with staying in a relationship with someone I am permanently in battle with versus separating - I would take separation every time. Who wants to be in an marriage with someone they dont even like or respect (which is where repeated nagging and rowing leads to)?

I think the 80% figure is utter nonsense also.

''A bit of nagging can become a weary painful tense situation over time and cause more damage than a single harsh separation.'' - That is true but you can't let this take over your life. go for a walk instead of having a row, get out of the house and put some time and distance between you and the other person.

''faced with staying in a relationship with someone I am permanently in battle with versus separating - I would take separation every time'' - I doubt the OP needs to be in permanent battle and I wonder what agenda you are pushing?

''they dont even like or respect'' - who said that he didnt like or respect his spouse? are you making this up??

''I think the 80% figure is utter nonsense also'' - I agree with 80% ,most people have to make compromises in the course of a week. Don't you agree?

username123

JD Dublin wrote: »

''A bit of nagging can become a weary painful tense situation over time and cause more damage than a single harsh separation.'' - That is true but you can't let this take over your life. go for a walk instead of having a row, get out of the house and put some time and distance between you and the other person.

''faced with staying in a relationship with someone I am permanently in battle with versus separating - I would take separation every time'' - I doubt the OP needs to be in permanent battle and I wonder what agenda you are pushing?

''they dont even like or respect'' - who said that he didnt like or respect his spouse? are you making this up??

''I think the 80% figure is utter nonsense also'' - I agree with 80% ,most people have to make compromises in the course of a week. Don't you agree?

Im not clear why you are replying to me and not the OP, as soon as I read the word "agenda" in your post I dismissed the rest of it tbh.

My responses are based on the OPs posts.

JD Dublin

username123 wrote: »

Im not clear why you are replying to me and not the OP, as soon as I read the word "agenda" in your post I dismissed the rest of it tbh.

says more about your approach than you care to admit.

All my remarks are addressed to the OP.

OP stick to your task, remember the woman you loved and married, she is still there for you. Get a grip not a gripe.