Most Competitive Provincial Championship?

iDave

Something to debate for silly season. If we take the last 10 years

Ulster (F): 4 Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, Monaghan
Ulster (H): 1 Antrim
Leinster (F): 4 Dublin, Meath, Westmeath, Laois
Leinster (H): 4 Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway
Connacht: 4 Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo
Munster (F): 2 Kerry, Cork
Munster (H): 4 Tipperary, Cork, Waterford, Limerick

Most jump to the conclusion its either Munster hurling or Ulster football. In reality they are neck and neck with Leinster in both codes and Connacht football.

eigrod

iDave wrote: »

Something to debate for silly season. If we take the last 10 years

Ulster (F): 4 Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, Monaghan
Ulster (H): 1 Antrim
Leinster (F): 4 Dublin, Meath, Westmeath, Laois
Leinster (H): 4 Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway
Connacht: 4 Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo
Munster (F): 2 Kerry, Cork
Munster (H): 4 Tipperary, Cork, Waterford, Limerick

Most jump to the conclusion its either Munster hurling or Ulster football. In reality they are neck and neck with Leinster in both codes and Connacht football.

You have 1 glaring omission in your Munster Hurling contenders there. In my opinion the Munster hurling Championship is the most exciting and competitive across either code.

Edit : Sorry, maybe you are just listing Provincial winners in last 10 years. Not sure that will include all 'probable' winners though - considering what Clare did this year.

iDave

eigrod wrote: »

You have 1 glaring omission in your Munster Hurling contenders there. In my opinion the Munster hurling Championship is the most exciting and competitive across either code.

Edit : Sorry, maybe you are just listing Provincial winners in last 10 years. Not sure that will include all 'probable' winners though - considering what Clare did this year.

I was viewing it with the provincial championships in isolation. When was Clares last final appearance?

eigrod

iDave wrote: »

I was viewing it with the provincial championships in isolation. When was Clares last final appearance?

2008. But there are most definitely 5 Counties in with a shout of winning the Munster Hurling Championship.

Fireball07

I would say that Munster hurling is by far the most exciting, and probably the most competitive, although Ulster football runs it very close.

Leinster hurling is starten to tighten up now, the introduction of Galway and the rise of Dublin have helped, along with a slight decline in KK. But Wexford and Offaly would both need to raise their game before it could be considered as competitive as Munster football.

Ulster football does have some excellent teams and most would fancy their chances of winning it.

iDave

Fireball07 wrote: »

Ulster football does have some excellent teams and most would fancy their chances of winning it.

Can only see it being won by Tyrone, Donegal or Monaghan next year.
The rest are still a long way off. Fermanagh have never won it.

Fireball07

While you're probably right- Derry, Down and Cavan are all very decent teams who could do it on a given day.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

While 4 counties may have won it in the last decade, Connacht isn't particularly competitive right now. It's hard to look past Mayo for next year.

Fr Tod Umptious

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

While 4 counties may have won it in the last decade, Connacht isn't particularly competitive right now. It's hard to look past Mayo for next year.

Provinces go in cycles of competitiveness, but that does not mean that the teams in the province are of All Ireland winning calibre either

Four different Connaught winners in a row prior to 2011 were
2010 - Ros
2009 - Mayo
2008 - Galway
2007 - Sligo

Tom Joad

iDave wrote: »

Can only see it being won by Tyrone, Donegal or Monaghan next year.
The rest are still a long way off. Fermanagh have never won it.

If the same question arose exactly twelve months ago - would Monaghan have made that shortlist?? That's the beauty of the Ulster Championship - realistically now 7 teams have a good shout of winning it on any given day/draw - what i like about the open draw too.

Would be interesting to see a similar stat for all-ireland appearances and victories by province for last ten years - might give a truer reflection!

For me (and I know feck all about hurling) the Munster hurling championship is head and shoulders above any other championship in either code with Ulster football the next.

ted2767

Fireball07 wrote: »

I would say that Munster hurling is by far the most exciting, and probably the most competitive, although Ulster football runs it very close.

Leinster hurling is starten to tighten up now, the introduction of Galway and the rise of Dublin have helped, along with a slight decline in KK. But Wexford and Offaly would both need to raise their game before it could be considered as competitive as Munster football.

Ulster football does have some excellent teams and most would fancy their chances of winning it.

Sorry but to my mind the Ulster championship is usually an awful spectacle.
While the games are close I often find that the great leveller in Ulster Football is cynicism and athleticism.
Munster hurling all the way for me.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

While 4 counties may have won it in the last decade, Connacht isn't particularly competitive right now. It's hard to look past Mayo for next year.

By the same token, Leinster is the same with Dublin.

Lemlin

iDave wrote: »

Something to debate for silly season. If we take the last 10 years

Ulster (F): 4 Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, Monaghan
Ulster (H): 1 Antrim
Leinster (F): 4 Dublin, Meath, Westmeath, Laois
Leinster (H): 4 Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway
Connacht: 4 Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo
Munster (F): 2 Kerry, Cork
Munster (H): 4 Tipperary, Cork, Waterford, Limerick

Most jump to the conclusion its either Munster hurling or Ulster football. In reality they are neck and neck with Leinster in both codes and Connacht football.

How you can say Leinster football is "neck and neck" with Ulster in terms of competitiveness is beyond me.

Dublin have won it 7 of the last 8 years. Even back in the period from 2005 to 2009, when Dublin were receiving hammerings in Croke Park quarter finals from Kerry and Tyrone, they were walking a very poor Leinster championship.

Your figure of 4 for different champions is being artificially inflated because Westmeath and Laois won it a decade ago.

Ulster had 3 teams in the All Ireland quarter finals last year. Leinster had only one. You say only Monaghan, Donegal or Tyrone could win it next year yet Cavan were only a kick of the ball away from a draw with Monaghan. And, as Tom Joad said, would people have listed Monaghan as potential champions last year?

Derry operated at Division 1 in the league this year. Down will operate in Division 1 next year. Thry made the AI final in 2010. These are good teams.

iDave

Lemlin wrote: »

How you can say Leinster football is "neck and neck" with Ulster in terms of competitiveness is beyond me.

Dublin have won it 7 of the last 8 years. Even back in the period from 2005 to 2009, when Dublin were receiving hammerings in Croke Park quarter finals from Kerry and Tyrone, they were walking a very poor Leinster championship.

Your figure of 4 for different champions is being artificially inflated because Westmeath and Laois won it a decade ago.

Ulster had 3 teams in the All Ireland quarter finals last year. Leinster had only one. You say only Monaghan, Donegal or Tyrone could win it next year yet Cavan were only a kick of the ball away from a draw with Monaghan. And, as Tom Joad said, would people have listed Monaghan as potential champions last year?

Derry operated at Division 1 in the league this year. Down will operate in Division 1 next year. Thry made the AI final in 2010. These are good teams.

For the guts of the last decade the USFC was swapped between Tyrone and Armagh. It took Jim McGuinness to break that duopoly. In doing so he ended a 19 year wait for Donegal. When Monaghan won this year it ended a 25 year wait. Its been 16 years since Cavan last won it. 15 for Derry. 19 for Down. 63 for Antrim and Fermanaghs first has yet to come. Very long gaps for a lot of teams. People say any team can win the Ulster championship at any given time, the reality is only about 2, 3 maximum have a chance of winning it.

blue note

Munster hurling easily. All 5 teams have a realistic chance of winning it and no dud games. Since 06 all 5 teams have made the AI final with 3 winning it.

In football it has to be Ulster in recent years at least. In recent years, Donegal, Armagh and Tyrone have won the all Ireland. Monaghan have won the provincial, Down have made an AI final, Derry won Division 1 of the league a few years ago. Even Cavan looked decent last year. I can't really defend Antrim, but no other province has been close to it in football in terms of competitiveness.

J Cheever Loophole

blue note wrote: »

In football it has to be Ulster in recent years at least.

Indeed. From 2008 - 2013, eight of the nine counties in Ulster were represented on Ulster Final Day.

Lemlin

iDave wrote: »

For the guts of the last decade the USFC was swapped between Tyrone and Armagh. It took Jim McGuinness to break that duopoly. In doing so he ended a 19 year wait for Donegal. When Monaghan won this year it ended a 25 year wait. Its been 16 years since Cavan last won it. 15 for Derry. 19 for Down. 63 for Antrim and Fermanaghs first has yet to come. Very long gaps for a lot of teams. People say any team can win the Ulster championship at any given time, the reality is only about 2, 3 maximum have a chance of winning it.

And for 8 of the last ten years Dublin have won Leinster so how can you even compare Ulster and Leinster?

Leinster is routinely swapped between Dublin and Meath, far more than over a decade. Westmeath and Laois winning it ten years ago was only because the province was so weak. Westmeath lost to Derry after they won Leinster, who it could be debated weren't even the third best team in Ulster at the time.

Have a look at Ulster in the 90s and compare it to Leinster then.

Stoner

Lemlin wrote: »

Have a look at Ulster in the 90s and compare it to Leinster then.

Kerry were not up to standard in the early 90s so that would have helped the ulster counties, if westmeaths opposition is being considered , so should ulsters in the 90s

All that said ulster has had the highest standard imho, theyve had the best array of strong teams, donegal, armagh ,tyrone etc.

Lemlin

Stoner wrote: »

Kerry were not up to standard in the early 90s so that would have helped the ulster counties, if westmeaths opposition is being considered , so should ulsters in the 90s

All that said ulster has had the highest standard imho, theyve had the best array of strong teams, donegal, armagh ,tyrone etc.

You had no Kerry but you had Sean Boylan's Meath. The post is about competitiveness within the province anyway.

My point was that in the 90s Donegal, Down, Derry, Tyrone, Armagh and Cavan all won Ulster titles. Six of the nine counties. That would not happen in Leinster.

Even in the last decade, you had lesser Ulster counties like Fermanagh making All Ireland semi finals. Westmeath and Laois were winning Leinster and still couldn't make one. In fact, between 2001 and 2011, no Leinster team even made the final.

premierstone

iDave wrote: »

I was viewing it with the provincial championships in isolation. When was Clares last final appearance?

But surely the fact that Clare don't even make the list of four makes the arguement for Munster Hurling all the stronger, given that they are AI champions, yet haven't been in a munster final in 5 years.

angelfire9

Munster Hurling wins hands down for me
You just never know who is going to win a game there's no way to predict who the munster champs will be in 2014 Clare/Cork/Limerick would all have short odds but Tipp and Waterford are always able to upset the apple cart
Every game is competitive
Every game has real rivalry between the teams
For example in munster final (if Clare get there next summer)

Clare/Limerick is a local derby
Clare/Cork Will be a cracker with JBM's men out to avenge the AI
Clare/Tipp well since Nicky English's display in '94 we don't like Tipp very much
Clare/Waterford has the Davy factor


I love munster hurling rivalries

premierstone

angelfire9 wrote: »

Clare/Tipp well since Nicky English's display in '94 we don't like Tipp very much

It was '93 and Ger Lough made the whole thing up and Clare folk bought it hook line and sinker

For those who don't know, what happened was English was basically a physical wreck and carrying about 5 injuries, shouldn't have been on the field really, and the rest of the forwards made a point of setting him up to score before been replaced, English started laughing at Pat Fox after scoring a point that was set up for him, Loughnane tried to make out he was laughing at Clare because Tipp won by 23 points or that, fair play to Loughnane it was part of his 'us against them siege mentality' he created and it worked.

Still think its unfortunate and very unfair that some actually believe it and would question someone of English's humility.

angelfire9

premierstone wrote: »

It was '93 and Ger Lough made the whole thing up and Clare folk bought it hook line and sinker

For those who don't know, what happened was English was basically a physical wreck and carrying about 5 injuries, shouldn't have been on the field really, and the rest of the forwards made a point of setting him up to score before been replaced, English started laughing at Pat Fox after scoring a point that was set up for him, Loughnane tried to make out he was laughing at Clare because Tipp won by 23 points or that, fair play to Loughnane it was part of his 'us against them siege mentality' he created and it worked.

Still think its unfortunate and very unfair that some actually believe it and would question someone of English's humility.

He had a Snow White mouth guard on it made his laughter sinister
Nothing to do with loughnane I was at the game it was painful to watch

premierstone

angelfire9 wrote: »

He had a Snow White mouth guard on it made his laughter sinister
Nothing to do with loughnane I was at the game it was painful to watch

You would want to wear a mouth guard against that Clare team The rivalry was something else in the late and mid nineties alright, although in truth it probably went a bit too far.