Success with a 2:2 degree

Gael23

I'm in my final year of a business and French degree, accounting major, will expect to graduate with a 2:2 grade.
In accounting, a 2:1 seems to be the bottom line for a huge number of firms so I was wondering how can I get somewhere without one. I do have some work experience which was a component of my degree and from reading other threads that might stand to me but I don't know.

Lunni

ryanf1 wrote: »

I'm in my final year of a business and French degree, accounting major, will expect to graduate with a 2:2 grade.
In accounting, a 2:1 seems to be the bottom line for a huge number of firms so I was wondering how can I get somewhere without one. I do have some work experience which was a component of my degree and from reading other threads that might stand to me but I don't know.

A 2:2 limits your options for just about everything. Could you not try to get a 2:1? Surely that's still possible?

Gael23

It's not impossible I suppose but it's not really a realistic aim for me. I'm a good bit off it and am in my final year so in order to achieve a 2:1 I would need A's in the majority of exams for the year.

April O Neill II

ryanf1 wrote: »

It's not impossible I suppose but it's not really a realistic aim for me. I'm a good bit off it and am in my final year so in order to achieve a 2:1 I would need A's in the majority of exams for the year.

What percentage of your third year results goes towards your degree classification? I got a 3rd in third year but managed to bring it up to a 2.1, as third year was only worth 10% of my final degree grade.

Lombardo86

April O Neill II wrote: »

What percentage of your third year results goes towards your degree classification? I got a 3rd in third year but managed to bring it up to a 2.1, as third year was only worth 10% of my final degree grade.

I would be interested in this too - I'd be surprised if 3rd year weighed more than 25%?

2.2, while nothing wrong with it and i am sure you will get something, you might not get what you want first time round. You may need to accept X as a position, stay there a year or 2, then use the experience gained to make a move to a bigger company etc. That's one way.

I would also agree to just buckle down for final year. Have you a part time job? If so, is there any way you can give it up?


Do you have modules that weigh more than others? If so, focus on getting good grades in those to bump up your avg.

If i can take a 2.2 from 1st and 2nd year and improve it - anyone can!

Gael23

April O Neill II wrote: »

What percentage of your third year results goes towards your degree classification? I got a 3rd in third year but managed to bring it up to a 2.1, as third year was only worth 10% of my final degree grade.

For us it's 25% on each of second and third year and then 50% on 4th year.
I've gone into 4th year with just below a 2:2.
But 4th year modules are double weighted so I will get at least a 2:2.

ninebeanrows

As with most jobs in life, it really isn't what you know, it's who you know.

If you have contacts you will have no problem with a 2.2 once you have good interview skills and can sell yourself.

A 2.2 is only restrictive if you let it be and as previous posters said, once you get a few years experience under your belt, it is forgotten about.

April O Neill II

ryanf1 wrote: »

For us it's 25% on each of second and third year and then 50% on 4th year.
I've gone into 4th year with just below a 2:2.
But 4th year modules are double weighted so I will get at least a 2:2.

Wow, that's harsh enough. I suffered from a serious long-term illness during my degree that resolved just before heading into my final year. If previous years of my degree has counted for so much, I would never have got a 2.1. Or even a decent 2.2!

April O Neill II

Weathercheck wrote: »

As with most jobs in life, it really isn't what you know, it's who you know.

If you have contacts you will have no problem with a 2.2 once you have good interview skills and can sell yourself.

A 2.2 is only restrictive if you let it be and as previous posters said, once you get a few years experience under your belt, it is forgotten about.

In general, I agree. For accountancy, academic results seem to matter a lot more than for other professions. But yeah, if you can find a way in, the results will matter less and less, like any other profession. Getting in is the hard part.

Gael23

April O Neill II wrote: »

Wow, that's harsh enough. I suffered from a serious long-term illness during my degree that resolved just before heading into my final year. If previous years of my degree has counted for so much, I would never have got a 2.1. Or even a decent 2.2!

Im reasonably confident of getting a firm 2:2 but now you know why I was saying I was going to get a 2.2 on the other thread!
It is hard because in 2nd year you dont appreciate whaty a 1.1. 2.1 etc means while at the same time the year counts for 25% of your degree. It was only last semester when I went on work placement that it really hit home to me how important a 2.1 was.
Having said that though, i'm always hearing the industry experience we get as part of our degree in UL makes our degrees stand out. Not sure how accurate that is.

Ray Palmer

Weathercheck wrote: »

As with most jobs in life, it really isn't what you know, it's who you know.

If you have contacts you will have no problem with a 2.2 once you have good interview skills and can sell yourself.

A 2.2 is only restrictive if you let it be and as previous posters said, once you get a few years experience under your belt, it is forgotten about.

It rarely has anything to do with who you know. Grades are often omitted from CVs and have little bearing after 2-3 years of working. Anybody in the working world knows a grade from college has very little to do with your ability or work attitude. Met many people with good academic results who were terrible at actual professional work.

beauf

I'd say it depends on the career path and company. Some places its all about grades. Others not so much. I don't know about accountancy and business specifically. Most of the most successful people I know never went to college. Some of the best and the worst people I've worked with had frist class honors. In IT I've never seen much awareness of degree grades. Most people just want to know your experience of the last 2-3yrs and anything beyond that isn't usually of interest. The exception to that agencies and the big contracting firms.

Gael23

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It rarely has anything to do with who you know. Grades are often omitted from CVs and have little bearing after 2-3 years of working. Anybody in the working world knows a grade from college has very little to do with your ability or work attitude. Met many people with good academic results who were terrible at actual professional work.

Should I leave my grades off my CV then and wait until im asked?

Lombardo86

ryanf1 wrote: »

Should I leave my grades off my CV then and wait until im asked?

No - not in your case. Unfortunately for a new grad this isn't really an option. If you leave it off, in my opinion it will look worse.

This was why in an earlier post i had suggested that you may get a position outside of the big firms and work for 2-3 years, because at that point, grades become less and less important.. once you have experience in the industry.

If i was an employer and noticed a new grad with no results, i'd ask some questions.

April O Neill II

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It rarely has anything to do with who you know. Grades are often omitted from CVs and have little bearing after 2-3 years of working. Anybody in the working world knows a grade from college has very little to do with your ability or work attitude. Met many people with good academic results who were terrible at actual professional work.

That poster said that grades didn't matter.

Lombardo86

April O Neill II wrote: »

That poster said that grades didn't matter.

Yes thats what he said - but i disagree. You are selling yourself to an employer when finishing college. If you have no selling point on your CV (Results), i woudl think something was wrong that's all

Meanaspie

I graduated with a 2:2 in 2006, and I'd say I've had a better career so far and gained way more experience than most of the people in my graduating class. I've since worked for three of the the top 5 accountancy firms across two continents (not including Europe) and am currently in a FC.

I trained with a midsize firm in Dublin, I didn't even bother with the bigger firms (not because of my grade, but rather I felt that I'd get a much more rounded experience in a smaller firm). I had plenty of interviews. Persistence is the key really. Make sure your CV is up to scratch and have a decent cover letter detailing the benefits to the company of hiring you (if you really want to impress hand-write the cover letter) and if possible get the name of the HR manager/hiring partner and address the application to them personally. And then just apply to everyone, not all firms will be listed on the list of hiring firms that's issued by ACA.

April O Neill II

Lombardo86 wrote: »

Yes thats what he said - but i disagree. You are selling yourself to an employer when finishing college.

I know, I quoted a poster who talked about grades not being in response to another poster saying grades weren't important. :P

I agree with you, for grad roles especially, your grades should be on there.

April O Neill II

Meanaspie wrote: »

I graduated with a 2:2 in 2006, and I'd say I've had a better career so far and gained way more experience than most of the people in my graduating class. I've since worked for three of the the top 5 accountancy firms across two continents (not including Europe) and am currently in a FC.

I trained with a midsize firm in Dublin, I didn't even bother with the bigger firms (not because of my grade, but rather I felt that I'd get a much more rounded experience in a smaller firm). I had plenty of interviews. Persistence is the key really. Make sure your CV is up to scratch and have a decent cover letter detailing the benefits to the company of hiring you (if you really want to impress hand-write the cover letter) and if possible get the name of the HR manager/hiring partner and address the application to them personally. And then just apply to everyone, not all firms will be listed on the list of hiring firms that's issued by ACA.

2006. You'd find it much harder to get into accountany now with a 2.2. Sign of the times. So, not very helpful to the OP.

Meanaspie

April O Neill II wrote: »

2006. You'd find it much harder to get into accountany now with a 2.2. Sign of the times. So, not very helpful to the OP.

Regardless of the year I graduated I'm pretty sure all of the advice about cover letters, CV and HR manager/hiring partner is always relevant and helpful

Gael23

Meanaspie wrote: »

Regardless of the year I graduated I'm pretty sure all of the advice about cover letters, CV and HR manager/hiring partner is always relevant and helpful

Is there any key things that should/ should not be on my CV?

April O Neill II

Meanaspie wrote: »

Regardless of the year I graduated I'm pretty sure all of the advice about cover letters, CV and HR manager/hiring partner is always relevant and helpful

Of course, but the thread is mainly about degree grades, and it's pretty ruthless in that regard for people trying to enter the profession at the moment. The year you graduated matters a lot.

Meanaspie

ryanf1 wrote: »

Is there any key things that should/ should not be on my CV?

Keep it clear and concise, shouldn't be more than two pages max.

Personally my current one starts with a few lines about who I am my career and experience to date (think executive summary), but that really comes later in your career when you've more experience to talk about. that said though maybe a short paragraph about the experience you gained on work placements that's relevant may help

Make sure there are no spelling/grammatical errors, I know people in HR who will literally bin CVs if they see any. With the times we're in and so many people applying for jobs, the thought process is if someone isn't bothered proof reading/spell checking their CV why should they bother with them.

As previously said, as you're looking for a grad position your level of degree has to go on. You will be questioned on it in any interviews so my advice is to put it near the top after contact details etc rather than try hide it near the end. And have answers prepared if they ask you about it, do you not feel you could have done better etc Don't let the grade be a millstone your neck attach it head on.

Keep it short and to the point. If you've worked part time during college include this, it may not be relevant to accounting but proves you've an aptitude for working and studying.

I think you are getting hung up on the grade, try not to be. Just because someone gets a great grade doesn't mean they'll make a great accountant/professional. The key to getting a job is confidence in yourself and your ability. Regardless of grade all new grades go into accounting with very similar experience and believe me when I say that not a lot of what you learn in your degree is relevant/directly transferable to everyday accounting - you'll learn far more on the job in a year than you did over your whole degree.

Going back to my point on finding out the HR manger/hiring partners name and writing a handwritten letter I can't tell you how much this can help (providing your hand writing is neat and legible). In this day and age no one hand writes letters anymore (even my Mother remarked the other day about receiving a real hand written letter for the first time in god knows how many years), it will make you stand out and be memorable. As I'm sure you'll be sending out numerous applications it's probably impractical to do it for ever position. So I advise doing it for the top 5/10 companies that you'd like to work for - be that based on their location, reputation or from what you've heard about working for that company.

Ray Palmer

April O Neill II wrote: »

That poster said that grades didn't matter.

Sorry I see what you saw. I was saying who you know is very rarely the case of getting a job. As graduate you often very rarely know anybody yourself anyway.

April O Neill II

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Sorry I see what you saw. I was saying who you know is very rarely the case of getting a job. As graduate you often very rarely know anybody yourself anyway.

Ah, I dunno, I use connections whenever possible, personally, and I'd say a lot of people do.

Having said that, my first graduate job was with a government agency in the UK. Though I'd wouldn't have a chance in hell, applied at the last minute and beat 80 other applicants to the job. Sometimes it is just about how you well do in the application and interview!

Starmcmahon14

I graduated in 2004 with a 3rd class honours degree in Marketing, went back to college in 2006 to do ACCA part time. Have never had any issue in working in good finance roles in industry. Worked in a mid tier for 18 months but hated the environment, just wasn't for me. I prefer the buzz in industry and the variation and chance to work on projects.
Currently employed in a blue chip global company on €55k plus benefits with a decent work/life balance. Degree results have never hindered me. It is all about your work ethic and desire in my experience.

Gael23

Meanaspie wrote: »

Personally my current one starts with a few lines about who I am my career and experience to date (think executive summary), but that really comes later in your career when you've more experience to talk about. that said though maybe a short paragraph about the experience you gained on work placements that's relevant may help

I did see this in some sample CV's but for applications with a cover letter I was thinking this could be left out?

My handwriting is not too clear so the cover letter will have to be typed and sent be emal as they request in the ad. The person it is to be sent to is not a partner but I assume I should still address it to her.

Gone West

Meanaspie wrote: »

(if you really want to impress hand-write the cover letter)

Are you kidding?

Meanaspie

ryanf1 wrote: »

I did see this in some sample CV's but for applications with a cover letter I was thinking this could be left out?

My handwriting is not too clear so the cover letter will have to be typed and sent be emal as they request in the ad. The person it is to be sent to is not a partner but I assume I should still address it to her.

I personally haven't written a cover letter probably since I joined my training firm, I generally go through recruiters these days so they aren't necessary so I guess it's your call really. But I'd probably still leave it in. When reviewing CVs pre/post interview the cover letter will be long gone.

Fuzzy wrote: »

Are you kidding?

No why would I be, it's a way to stand out of the crowd. Yes some people are not going to like it but if you have clear handwriting what's the difference between writing and typing? But it goes hand in hand with addressing it to the person responsible for hiring and/or interviewing. If it just goes to an admin cleric then no it won't have the impact but it it goes directly to the person responsible it makes you stand out and shows that you particularly want to work for that company as you took the time to hand write the letter, works even better if you can mention specific reasons for choosing that company in the letter

Bandana boy

Outside of Love letters and postcards always type and print all correspondence.

When it comes to communicating with a potential employer never ever ever ever ever handwrite an application letter.
While you will stand out ,it will be for the wrong reasons and your application will be a subject of you will never believe what some kid did today.

seamus

April O Neill II wrote: »

In general, I agree. For accountancy, academic results seem to matter a lot more than for other professions. But yeah, if you can find a way in, the results will matter less and less, like any other profession. Getting in is the hard part.

There are other routes in if you can't get in through the milk rounds.
If you can get an administrative position in any firm, they'll usually be more than happy to sponsor you if you apply internally for a grad position the following year. You'll also be a leg above your colleagues at that stage because you'll have a better understanding of the business.

April O Neill II

seamus wrote: »

There are other routes in if you can't get in through the milk rounds.
If you can get an administrative position in any firm, they'll usually be more than happy to sponsor you if you apply internally for a grad position the following year.

Aaaahh, easier said than done. Administrative positions are very, very difficult to get without experience, and there are a glut of experienced administrators looking for work out there.

So, yeah, that's a way in, but a hard way to get in. For any accountancy training contract, a 2.1 will be expected, even in industry.

Now, if anyone can give me tips on how to pick up an administrative position in the Dublin area with only laboratory experience, I would be ever grateful.

Gael23

I've just finished putting together my CV, it's 2.5 pages but I feel that if I cut stuff out to keep it under 2 pages, I wouldn't be selling myself properly, I need them to know that while I'm not the strongest academically I have a whole load of other things going for me.

April O Neill II

ryanf1 wrote: »

I've just finished putting together my CV, it's 2.5 pages but I feel that if I cut stuff out to keep it under 2 pages, I wouldn't be selling myself properly, I need them to know that while I'm not the strongest academically I have a whole load of other things going for me.

Cut it to two pages. A grad CV should be no longer.

The cover letter can be used to explain things.

Being able to edit judiciously is a good skill to display, so cutting a CV to 2 pages is a challenge you should accept.

Gael23

April O Neill II wrote: »

Cut it to two pages. A grad CV should be no longer.

The cover letter can be used to explain things.

Being able to edit judiciously is a good skill to display, so cutting a CV to 2 pages is a challenge you should accept.

I'll try! It's actually just a shade over the 2 pages, with 3 bullet points of 2 lines each on page 3. I've got it formatted in bullet points and all nice and spaced out but it looks nice and flows well.